New FAA Rules

[Pauly]

RE: New FAA Rules

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think only one registered number by the FAA is all that's needed. Weather it's one aircraft or 50. That's means just $5.00 for a one time needed registration for every 3 years. And yes after December the 21st for the first 30 days it's free and then it's 5 bucks afterwards. If I remember correctly the number has to be on it or under a hatch or door or can be on a battery is one way that I have read it. It has to weigh .55 and up to 55lbs. So pretty much all RC aircraft and some micro may be excluded, but for the most part all of our RC aircraft will need out one time N that is a (one size for all) is a way to sum it up in a nut shell. If I'm wrong please tell me.

[Konrad]

RE: New FAA Rules

As of today that is correct. But if you listened to the FAA conference call you learned that the FAA would like to charge more but per the 2012 appropriations bill they are limited to charging only $5. Than can and will change with a stroke of a pen!

Again there was no need for this as the government already has a registration number for us, the SS#. All they needed to do if all they really want is to ID the owner is require that we put our SS# in the plane.

[Pauly]

RE: New FAA Rules

As of today that is correct. But if you listened to the FAA conference call you learned that the FAA would like to charge more but per the 2012 appropriations bill they are limited to charging only $5. Than can and will change with a stroke of a pen!

Again there was no need for this as the government already has a registration number for us, the SS#. All they needed to do if all they really want is to ID the owner is require that we put our SS# in the plane.

Our AMA should work really, the government wouldn't be getting a kick back of it that way. I did see a add I think it was Best Buy selling the DJI Phantom 3 with a free AMA. Good selling point, but most who don't know the hobby has no clue what the AMA is.

[Konrad]

RE: New FAA Rules

The AMA has been loosing membership at an alarming rate. So many "in the hobby" don't know about the AMA.

[doctormike]

RE: New FAA Rules

I guess this registration thing isn't as bad as I originally thought....Maybe. I'm waiting for the other boot to drop. Doc

[Flygirl]

RE: New FAA Rules

It is what it is Doc.... Right? Not much we can do about it.... I'll comply.

[doctormike]

RE: New FAA Rules

The only thing that worries me now is their registration web site. Will it cut you off after filling in 3/4's of the blanks, or worse? Is my credit card info going to accidentally be available to anyone? Just going by gov't history. Doc

[Konrad]

RE: New FAA Rules

The only thing that worries me now is their registration web site. Will it cut you off after filling in 3/4's of the blanks, or worse? Is my credit card info going to accidentally be available to anyone? Just going by gov't history. Doc

If history is a lesson when dealing with our government, you know it will. The largest leaks (not all) of personal information come as a result of breaches in the US government data bases. To add insult to injury the US government is not obligated by law to inform you when your personal data might have been compromised as a result of these breaches!

[OV10]

RE: New FAA Rules

The AMA has been loosing membership at an alarming rate. So many "in the hobby" don't know about the AMA.

So true and I won't be surprised if this isn't the start of the demise of the AMA. Part of your AMA member fees is for representation and in this case it was apathetic. This ruling by the FAA is in direct violation of a law passed in 2012 by Congress(SEC. 336. SPECIAL RULE FOR MODEL AIRCRAFT) and our representative organization known as the AMA should have filed an injunction against the FAA who are no more than thugs trying to rescind our civil liberties. As an officer of our club, there is  going to be an indepth discussion at our board meeting this evening as to what our response shall be to the AMA and to this BS ruling. As far as I am personally concerned, the congressional law out trumps this lawless act by the FAA. If we as the modeling community succumb to this by meekly thinking that it is easier to pay $5 every three years then go ahead and join the herds of sheep in this country that give up their civil liberties but I WON'T. 
As a Nam era vet who has survived multiple cancers, I'll be damned if some mindless bureaucrats will deter me from enjoying one of the last simple pleasures I can enjoy regardless of my health anomalies.
[hr]

[sarcasm] What a great solution, WELL DONE FAA, I feel so much safer now that all terrorists and idiot people will now "register" their "Drones" and America is once again safe and secure. [/sarcasm]

Steve

Steve,
Very well said !!!!

[Grossman56]

RE: New FAA Rules

Here's some facts:
This is FAA dribble.
 The Law, as passed by the 112th Congress 2d Session }House of Representatives{ Report 112-381

                                                        FAA MODERNIZATION AND REFORM ACT OF 2012
                                                                            CONFERENCE REPORT
                                                                                 TO ACCOMPANY
                                                                                        H.R.658

                                                                              February 12,2012

SEC 336. SPECIAL RULE FOR MODEL AIRCRAFT.
(a)In General-Notwithstanding and other provision of law relating to the incorporation of unmanned aircraft systems into Federal Aviation Administrations plans and policies, including this subtitle, the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration may not promulgate any rule or regulation regarding a model aircraft, or an aircraft being developed as a model aircraft, if-
(1) The aircraft is flown strictly for hobby or recreational use;
(2)The aircraft is operated in accordance with a community-based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization;
(3)The aircraft is limited to not more than 55 pounds unless otherwise certified through a design, construction, inspection, flight test and operational safety program
    administered by a community-based organization;
(4)The aircraft is operated in a manner that does not interfere with and gives way to any manned aircraft; and
(5)When flown within 5 miles of an airport, the operator of the aircraft provides the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower (when an aircraft traffic facility is located at the airport) with prior notice of the operation (model aircraft operators flying from a permanent location within 5 miles of an airport should establish a mutually-agreed upon operating procedure with the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower (when an air traffic facility is located at the airport))
(b)STATUTORY CONSTRUCTION-Nothing in this section shall be construed to limit the authority of the Administrator to pursue enforcement action against persons operating model aircraft who endanger the safety of the national airspace system.
(c)MODEL AIRCRAFT DEFINED.-In this section, the term "model aircraft" means an unmanned aircraft that is-
(1)Capable of sustained flight in the atmosphere
(2)flown within visual line of sight of the person operating the aircraft; and
(3)Flown for hobby or recreational purposes.

So there you have it, the actual law, not the one that the FAA thinks it  has written.

All you legal gurus, chime in

Grossman56

[boomer108]

RE: New FAA Rules

I guess the FAA thinks they have executive power like Obama. They are going to do what they want and the AMA is just going to roll over and let do it without filing an injunction? I don't know why I should continue to pay dues to the AMA if my plane is now going to be registerd with the FAA and their the almighty governing body now. I'm still going to be a responsible pilot and I didn't see the FAA say we had to be registered members of the AMA, just with them so I'll be 55.00 ahead of the game. What a bunch of crap!!

Roy B.

[PappaBear]

RE: New FAA Rules

Model aircraft  have been around as long as the real thing in one guise or another. R/C model aircraft have been around  since the late 1940s, early 50s. To date there have been very few problems with people flying model aircraft. The problems have only occurred since the introduction of the quad copter or multi rotor copter, and the reason is very simple. The machines are very, very simple and easy to fly.

In my opinion they are to easy too fly and operate. Almost  anyone can learn to fly a quad copter in a very short space of time. However that doesn't mean they are safe, competent or skilled. People are buying and flying quad copters and taking photographs of all sorts of situations, and in some cases endangering the lives of others. So many are flown and operated in an unsafe manner, and this is the reason we have the situation we now have with the FAA.

The figures I have to hand are 400,000 quad copters are going to be given as Christmas presents this year in the US alone. I would guess almost all of them will be going to people who have no experience of operating a radio controlled machine.  In many ways its not there fault, most have no clue of the dangers and risk assessment required to operate a small unmanned air vehicle, and they don't bother to find out the implications.

Anyone who has been flying RC models for any length of time will understand the skill and experience that is required to fly and operate a model in a safe responsible  manner.

I also believe the FAA were ten years to late in addressing this issue in the first place. So, because  of a handful of people who fly and operate quad copters in a dangerous and irresponsible manner the FAA in there wisdom have decided that everyone who flies a model aircraft now has to register and every model must carry a registration number. Is this going to stop the irresponsible individuals who fly in a dangerous and reckless manner, I don't think so.

The mind boggles at what the cost is going to be implement the registration system in the first place. If one registers right away it is free, after  the 30 day period, the cost will be $5.00. This I understand is for a 3 year period. I wonder what the cost will be after the 3 year period.

The AMA should be doing more to protect model flying in the U.S. from government  bureaucracy. What ever happened to the law passed in 2012 by Congress(SEC. 336. SPECIAL RULE FOR MODEL AIRCRAFT) The AMA should have filed an injunction against the FAA right away.

Model building and flying has long been an educational pursuit for as long as there have been model aircraft, as well as a challenging and satisfying hobby. Many famous full size pilots started their aviation career with model aircraft and went on the great things.

Martin.

[Konrad]

RE: New FAA Rules

There may be a challenge to these pin head bureaucrats.
http://jrupprechtlaw.com/myrupprecht-laws-analysis-of-the-faas-published-drone-registration-rule

Remember that bureaucrats want someone else (a ruling) saying they are in error with their over reaching interpretation of the law. If nobody gets a legal ruling the bureaucrats will always side on making the state a nanny state.

There is no incentive in government for a bureaucrat to take a risk and side with common sense. As they don't want to loose their entitlements. Taking a risk is of no benefit to a bureaucrat and at worse he could be in front of a congressional hearing having to justify himself, with likely jail time and fines when congress makes him a political football.

Rightly or wrongly it is the way the game is played. Jefferson was correct when he signed the Constitution, no matter how good this document is in 200 years it will be time for a revolution. We are over due! Vote the bastards out!

[starcop]

RE: New FAA Rules

There's something hilarious, dystonia and wonderful all at the same time, about living in a future where you'll be able to look out of your window and see high-tech pilot-less gizmos flying around the city trying to catch each other in nets for the sake of law-enforcement and terrorist prevention.

I want to see the version that fires an expanding net that wraps around the target drone and bags it up to carry off. If we get to the point where they can disassemble each other for parts, I'm not sure they'll be anything left for humanity worth achieving!

The future is here and it's crazier than I ever hoped.

[OV10]

RE: New FAA Rules

There may be a challenge to these pin head bureaucrats.
http://jrupprechtlaw.com/myrupprecht...istration-rule

Konrad,
Very amazing piece of literature that you have found for the rest of us to purview. I actually read all of it including the attached references(part of the "contracts manager" in me from pre-retired corporate days). Mr. Rupprecht's 'final thoughts' paragraph is pretty much on the mark so now the BIG QUESTION is how do we as AMA members get our Academy representatives to use the funds we contribute to the organization for things like this(unfortunately worse case) and partner up with some constitutional law group (or maybe hire this guy) and take it to these lawless thugs to protect our civil liberties from this heinous overreach.
Best regards, 

[Aros]

RE: New FAA Rules

This just in from the President of the AMA...

Dear AMA Members,

Yesterday, the AMA Executive Council unanimously approved an action plan to relieve and further protect our members from unnecessary and burdensome regulations. This plan addresses the recently announced interim rule requiring federal registration of all model aircraft and unmanned aircraft systems (UAS) weighing between 0.55 and 55 pounds.

AMA has long used a similar registration system with our members, which we pointed out during the task force deliberations and in private conversations with the FAA. As you are aware, AMA's safety program instructs all members to place his or her AMA number or name and address on or within their model aircraft, effectively accomplishing the safety and accountability objectives of the interim rule. AMA has also argued that the new registration rule runs counter to Congress' intent in Section 336 of the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012, otherwise known as the "Special Rule for Model Aircraft."

The Council is considering all legal and political remedies to address this issue. We believe that resolution to the unnecessary federal registration rule for our members rests with AMA's petition before the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia. This petition, filed in August 2014, asks the court to review the FAA's interpretation of the "Special Rule for Model Aircraft." The central issue is whether the FAA has the authority to expand the definition of aircraft to include model aircraft; thus, allowing the agency to establish new standards and operating criteria to which model aircraft operators have never been subject to in the past.

In promulgating its interim rule for registration earlier this week, the FAA repeatedly stated that model aircraft are aircraft, despite the fact that litigation is pending on this very question. The Council believes the FAA's reliance on its interpretation of Section 336 for legal authority to compel our members to register warrants the Court's immediate attention to AMA's petition.

While we continue to believe that registration makes sense at some threshold and for flyers operating outside of a community-based organization or flying for commercial purposes, we also strongly believe our members are not the problem and should not have to bear the burden of additional regulations. Safety has been the cornerstone of our organization for 80 years and AMA's members strive to be a part of the solution.

As we proceed with this process, we suggest AMA members hold off on registering their model aircraft with the FAA until advised by the AMA or until February 19, the FAA's legal deadline for registering existing model aircraft.
Holding off on registration will allow AMA time to fully consider all possible options. On a parallel track, it also allows AMA to complete ongoing conversations with the FAA about how best to streamline the registration process for our members.

In the near future, we will also be asking our members to make their voices heard by submitting comments to the FAA's interim rule on registration. We will follow-up soon with more detailed information on how to do this.

Thank you for your continued support of AMA. We will provide you with more updates as they become available.
Kind regards,

The AMA Executive Council
Bob Brown, AMA President

[Grossman56]

RE: New FAA Rules

Finally, The AMA is showing some balls!
If we are declared aircraft, why would we have to report that we're flying within a five mile radius of an airport, heck, why can't we fly from an airport, we're aircraft aren't we?
I've had idiot pilots buzz our R/C field at a lot less than 400 feet, why aren't they getting busted for flying within a five mile radius of an R/C field??

Grossman56

[Flygirl]

RE: New FAA Rules

Finally, The AMA is showing some balls!
If we are declared aircraft, why would we have to report that we're flying within a five mile radius of an airport, heck, why can't we fly from an airport, we're aircraft aren't we?
I've had idiot pilots buzz our R/C field at a lot less than 400 feet, why aren't they getting busted for flying within a five mile radius of an R/C field??

Grossman56

Actually, that petition to the courts has been in the court since August 2014 according to what I read. The trick will be getting the courts attention. Maybe a b**ch slap? LOL!

And get the tail number the next time someone buzzes GMan! :)

[boomer108]

RE: New FAA Rules

I like your approach Flygirl.   LoL! 

Roy B.

[Grossman56]

RE: New FAA Rules

According to the write up from AMA that we all just got, the FAA says that model aircraft are aircraft, so if they ram this down our throats, I think EVERY member of the AMA should head straight to the local airport and start flying from the runways, hey we're aircraft too, that would cause a stink the media would notice.

Grossman56