Real Crummy Weekend

[CT]

Well, I had hoped this hobby of which I have spent untold hours and cost would provide the gratification and joy which keeps us going, but this weekend I lost 2 beloved birds, Freewing 262 and F-15. Seriously thinking of abandoning this hobby which used to provide the above but now the disappointment and frustration has got me to thinking enough is enough. It is hard enough to hone your pilot skills and over 4 years I consider myself in the upper intermediant level flying up to 2500mm twin props and 12s EDF's. I enjoyed the challenge of honing skills via stick time, but the mechanical/electrical issues have reared their ugly head.
While flying my Freewing 262 which I have had great success with in ease of flying and reliability, lost all reception dead motor and servos, augured in. Number 2 was while flying my 90mm F-15, exact similar issue, first 1 minute perfect and bang, augered in.

Konrad, you seem to be the electrical/power guru on this board, and ideas or suggestions?

Dx-9 Tx and Spektrum Rx on all. 262 stock outrunner motors w/ Admiral 5000 lipo. Castle 100a ESC. There was an adnormality in preflighting, experienced uncontrolled "twitching" of ailerons after binding. After making sure all rx connections were secure no further twiching.
The f-15 no idea, first running stock outrunner with ESC and 4000 lipo. Actually had 2 simlar incidents on this one, replacing the power unit with 8s motor hv ESC used prior in other a/c with no issues. Same incident occurred to both power units and ESC's.
The Rx was a tight fit with the 8s configuration, running  2 4500 lipos and was very near the electrical components????At very least am taking a month off from every aspect of flying and building.
Chris

[Konrad]

RE: Real Crummy Weekend

Isolating RF issue is very difficult even with proper test equipment. Even professional RF engineers will have less than a 3% success rate at finding the definitive cause for problems out in the field.

I'd look at what was common to both models. Have the TX checked out. I used Radio South as my repair station. I don't know what technical competence Horizon Hobbies has.

Check the battery charger to see if it is properly charging the batteries.

Check the field to see if there has been a rash of crashes. (sometimes the military or a telecommunication company will have started to operate some new transmitter)

Is the weather unusual for your flying site? Cold will add servo load as the grease in the gear train thickens, batteries don't yield as much power because to the slowed down chemical reaction. High humidity impedes the range of 2.4ghz.

Can you draw a diagram showing antenna placement relative to the batteries, motors and carbon structures? What I'm asking is can you still see at least one antenna at all aircraft attitudes that is not blocked by some conductive material.

You mention the power plants a lot. I don't see this as an issue. But what are you using for a BEC and does it have enough head room for the battery count and current draw.

And last my condolences for your loss.

Konrad

[Sky Wolf]

RE: Real Crummy Weekend

Isolating RF issue is very difficult even with proper test equipment. Even professional RF engineers will have less than a 3% success rate at finding the definitive cause for problems out in the field.

I'd look at what was common to both models. Have the TX checked out. I used Radio South as my repair station. I don't know what technical competence Horizon Hobbies has.

Check the battery charger to see if it is properly charging the batteries.

Check the field to see if there has been a rash of crashes. (sometimes the military or a telecommunication company will have started to operate some new transmitter)

Is the weather unusual for your flying site? Cold will add servo load as the grease in the gear train thickens, batteries don't yield as much power because to the slowed down chemical reaction. High humidity impedes the range of 2.4ghz.

Can you draw a diagram showing antenna placement relative to the batteries, motors and carbon structures? What I'm asking is can you still see at least one antenna at all aircraft attitudes that is not blocked by some conductive material.

You mention the power plants a lot. I don't see this as an issue. But what are you using for a BEC and does it have enough head room for the battery count and current draw.

And last my condolences for your loss.

Konrad

CT, so sorry to hear of the rotten weekend you had. I had a similar day last year where I lost 3 planes in one morning. I was seriously questioning my skills that day. I too was ready to call it quits. But here is one thing I realized on my drive home...all of the planes did the same exact thing, so how could it possibly be a mistake I made 3 times in a row. I am a much better pilot than that. 

The planes simply rolled over and I couldn't recover them at all. On the first I thought maybe I lost orientation, but it was high enough that I could correct. But never regained any control. The second one I thought maybe a servo went out. But how can you tell after a crashed and damaged plane is recovered? 
The third one I just thought, "this is not my day"

I never thought it could be my 4 month old DX9, which I just loved. But, I contacted Horizon anyway to tell them the story of my day, they had it within 6 days. They did a field test, and guess what? They too lost a plane. It was a bad RF module. So they replaced the module and sent it back to me. 

I then maidened a new F4 Phantom, thinking, it's new! Guess what again? Lifted off and "bam"! Straight into the ground. 

Needless to say, they replaced the entire transmitter and sent me a great plane replacement for the 4 I lost. Not exactly an equal trade considering the amount of money I lost in planes, but they really tried their best to make things right. 

I have another buddy who had to have his RF module replaced too. Works well now. I would say have it checked out immediately. Even if it's out of warranty.

A month off, like you suggested may also relieve your tensions and relax your fingers???

Good luck!

[CT]

RE: Real Crummy Weekend

Thanks guys,
I was so involved with finding a glitch in the Rx, esc, or motor that I had not considered the Tx. That day during a flight an audible alarm from the tx went off, as I was flying I could not address it, but was able to look at the message, CAUTION Confirm system menu access, RF will be disabled   Are you Sure? Yes - No.    I was not able to confirm either yes or no but abbreviated my flight.
Also the Tx recently does have a problem with normal binding, taking 2-3 tries. DX9 about 2-1/2 yrs old

[fhhuber]

RE: Real Crummy Weekend

My norm for the first few years of flying RC was to arrive at the field with 3 airplanes and 3 empty garbage bags... and to leave with 3 filled garbage bags.

That was in the days when you bought a kit that looked like a box of sticks when you opened it. ARFs were all overweight unflyable trash.

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The message indicates you may be holding the TX in a manner where you are accidentally pressing the buttons for entering the computer menus. Inadvertently changing computer settings with an aircraft in flight is generally bad.

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I get issues attempting to bind in proximity to my computer, which has a 2.4ghz wireless keyboard and mouse. I have to turn off the mouse to be able to bind in the house.
Binding can be a problem in an environment with other 2.4 ghz stuff operating.