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Is SAFE safe?

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  • Is SAFE safe?

    As the RC hobby gets along in age, it is getting easier and easier to learn to fly. There are sites like Flite Test and retailers with great customer support structures like Motion RC. There are buddy box cables, and SAFE technology. At this point we have to ask ourselves the question, is it too easy to learn to fly? Don’t get me wrong, I love the fact the SAFE protects your first plane, but in the long run, is it worth it?

    SAFE- Sensor assisted flight envelope. In planes with SAFE, there are three flight modes. The two easier ones limit bank angle and, in general just make an RC plane easier to fly. In my opinion, these are great tools so that a beginner has something to lean on when learning. The thing that may hurt in the long run is the panic button. That, in case you didn’t know, automatically rights the plane for the hobbyist flying it, and this is the feature that some people starting in the hobby rely on too much.

    Planes with SAFE are usually much easier to fly because of their flight modes, and some people use this in a bad way. The use it to do low altitude aerobatics, and then rely on SAFE to pull them out of a nasty situation, not learning anything in the process. This is only applicable to those that lean on the technology too much. It gives them scary freedom to fly wherever and do whatever, and then rely on technology to pull out. Most folks fly carefully, as they want to have a good time, but don’t want to ruin their plane. SAFE eliminates that fear, and for some beginners that really want to push the boundaries, SAFE empowers them to be reckless and inconsiderate of the safety of others.

    I saw someone come down to our flying field with their new E-flite Apprentice and start to do loops and rolls right above the stands, where spectators were sitting, and then pull out with the quick snap to position that only SAFE can provide. Needless to say, he acted recklessly, and I know that most beginners with SAFE don't fly that way. SAFE is great, but when a hobbyist starts to rely on it too much, those results are painfully obvious when they get a plane without SAFE features. The system is a great pair of training wheels, but in the long run, those wheels have to come off, and when they do the difference between a person that only leaned on the SAFE system, and the person that relied on it become evident.

    Point being, that everything is good in moderation, and if you lean on SAFE too much, you may not learn all the skills needed to fly without an assist.

    What are your opinions on the SAFE system? Post stories if you have them, and experience with SAFE if you have flown and then switched to a non-assisted aircraft.
    You might be able to fly it, but can you land it?

  • #2
    RE: Is SAFE safe?

    SAFE is a tool... and like any other tool: If used correctly its a help. If used wrong it just creates problems.
    FF gliders and rubber power since 1966, CL 1970-1990, RC since 1975.

    current planes from 1/2 oz to 22 lbs

    Comment


    • #3
      RE: Is SAFE safe?

      Technologies are only as safe as the idiot using them.
      Yes, SAFE is safe but it isn’t idiot proof. It really is no worse that the guy in the days of old panicking and holding full up as the plane snaps multiple times into the pits!

      As an engineer this was the bane of my existence. I was constantly asked (tasked, by the regulators and the management) to find technical solutions to personnel problems. Don’t treat these fools like unique precious snow flakes. Kick the flakes in the balls and move on.

      All the best,
      Konrad

      Comment


      • #4
        RE: Is SAFE safe?

        Originally posted by Konrad
        Technologies are only as safe as the idiot using them.
        Yes, SAFE is safe but it isn’t idiot proof. It really is no worse that the guy in the days of old panicking and holding full up as the plane snaps multiple times into the pits!

        As an engineer this was the bane of my existence. I was constantly asked (tasked, by the regulators and the management) to find technical solutions to personnel problems. Don’t treat these fools like unique precious snow flakes. Kick the flakes in the balls and move on.

        All the best,
        Konrad
        Well said Konrad.
        You might be able to fly it, but can you land it?

        Comment


        • #5
          RE: Is SAFE safe?

          Originally posted by martmichals
          Originally posted by Konrad
          Technologies are only as safe as the idiot using them.
          Yes, SAFE is safe but it isn’t idiot proof. It really is no worse that the guy in the days of old panicking and holding full up as the plane snaps multiple times into the pits!

          As an engineer this was the bane of my existence. I was constantly asked (tasked, by the regulators and the management) to find technical solutions to personnel problems. Don’t treat these fools like unique precious snow flakes. Kick the flakes in the balls and move on.

          All the best,
          Konrad
          Well said Konrad.
          One quick question. How many members in your club stood by and watched this person fly over a spectators stand and not say anything. Our members would have been all over him. That's a direct violation of ama rules and club rules at the 3 different clubs I fly at here in NC. Enough of that. The first fomie I bought had safe. Was worried about flying a plane that was so much lighter than the nitro planes I had came back to. One time I pressed the button just to see if it worked. Was amazed but I knew I was not going to use it. First few flights in intermediate and then to experienced. I think anything that can help someone learn to fly is acceptable. Buying a plane going to a field and turning it into a pile of garbage on the first leaves a bad taste in anyone's mouth and theirs no telling how long that person saved just to get that plane. All people with the longing to fly dc has the funds to replace a plane at a drop of a dallar.
          Definitely anyone using technology for the purpose other than what it was designed is an idiot. But by the same token a person being responsable and truly using it to help them learn will probably lead them to seek out other people and sorces to further their abilities and equipment.
          Dewey l

          Comment


          • #6
            RE: Is SAFE safe?

            Originally posted by Dewey H Lee
            Originally posted by martmichals
            Originally posted by Konrad
            Technologies are only as safe as the idiot using them.
            Yes, SAFE is safe but it isn’t idiot proof. It really is no worse that the guy in the days of old panicking and holding full up as the plane snaps multiple times into the pits!

            As an engineer this was the bane of my existence. I was constantly asked (tasked, by the regulators and the management) to find technical solutions to personnel problems. Don’t treat these fools like unique precious snow flakes. Kick the flakes in the balls and move on.

            All the best,
            Konrad
            Well said Konrad.
            One quick question. How many members in your club stood by and watched this person fly over a spectators stand and not say anything. Our members would have been all over him. That's a direct violation of ama rules and club rules at the 3 different clubs I fly at here in NC. Enough of that. The first fomie I bought had safe. Was worried about flying a plane that was so much lighter than the nitro planes I had came back to. One time I pressed the button just to see if it worked. Was amazed but I knew I was not going to use it. First few flights in intermediate and then to experienced. I think anything that can help someone learn to fly is acceptable. Buying a plane going to a field and turning it into a pile of garbage on the first leaves a bad taste in anyone's mouth and theirs no telling how long that person saved just to get that plane. All people with the longing to fly dc has the funds to replace a plane at a drop of a dallar.
            Definitely anyone using technology for the purpose other than what it was designed  is an idiot. But by the same token a person being responsable and truly using it to help them learn will probably lead them to seek out other people and sorces to further their abilities and equipment.
            Our club members were all over him after they quickly realized that the pilot had not registered with the ama. They forced the pilot out and forbid him from flying at our field until he was registered the ama and had passed a safety test that our club requires. I didn't include this in my initial post as I didn't deem it necessary. The pilot felt as if he could do what he wanted, because he had his SAFEguard. I felt it necessary to get it out there that certain people aren't using good tech in a good way.
            You might be able to fly it, but can you land it?

            Comment


            • #7
              RE: Is SAFE safe?

              Originally posted by Dewey H Lee
              ...
              Definitely anyone using technology for the purpose other than what it was designed is an idiot. But by the same token a person being responsable and truly using it to help them learn will probably lead them to seek out other people and sorces to further their abilities and equipment.
              Really? I know of a lot of technologies and products that have found very good uses, other than what they were first purposed for. The medical community has a lot of these. Your life might someday hinge on there use.

              All the best,
              Konrad

              Comment


              • #8
                RE: Is SAFE safe?

                Originally posted by martmichals
                Originally posted by Dewey H Lee
                Originally posted by martmichals
                Originally posted by Konrad
                Technologies are only as safe as the idiot using them.
                Yes, SAFE is safe but it isn’t idiot proof. It really is no worse that the guy in the days of old panicking and holding full up as the plane snaps multiple times into the pits!

                As an engineer this was the bane of my existence. I was constantly asked (tasked, by the regulators and the management) to find technical solutions to personnel problems. Don’t treat these fools like unique precious snow flakes. Kick the flakes in the balls and move on.

                All the best,
                Konrad
                Well said Konrad.
                One quick question. How many members in your club stood by and watched this person fly over a spectators stand and not say anything. Our members would have been all over him. That's a direct violation of ama rules and club rules at the 3 different clubs I fly at here in NC. Enough of that. The first fomie I bought had safe. Was worried about flying a plane that was so much lighter than the nitro planes I had came back to. One time I pressed the button just to see if it worked. Was amazed but I knew I was not going to use it. First few flights in intermediate and then to experienced. I think anything that can help someone learn to fly is acceptable. Buying a plane going to a field and turning it into a pile of garbage on the first leaves a bad taste in anyone's mouth and theirs no telling how long that person saved just to get that plane. All people with the longing to fly dc has the funds to replace a plane at a drop of a dallar.
                Definitely anyone using technology for the purpose other than what it was designed  is an idiot. But by the same token a person being responsable and truly using it to help them learn will probably lead them to seek out other people and sorces to further their abilities and equipment.
                Our club members were all over him after they quickly realized that the pilot had not registered with the ama. They forced the pilot out and forbid him from flying at our field until he was registered the ama and had passed a safety test that our club requires. I didn't include this in my initial post as I didn't deem it necessary. The pilot felt as if he could do what he wanted, because he had his SAFEguard. I felt it necessary to get it out there that certain  people aren't using good tech in a good way.
                Well said. Sounds just like the same type of people that operate drones in an unsafe manner forceing everyone to have to register our planes now. I'm glade to hear you club even requires the safe and compentency test before allowing a person to fly with ama or a buddy box setup. Might I suggest your club having a sign in sheet and have a person who visits the field to produce there ama card. We have had several people to just show up and say they left there card at home in the past. If there card isn't with them we politely tell them they can't fly. Happy flying
                [hr]
                Originally posted by Dewey H Lee
                Originally posted by martmichals
                Originally posted by Dewey H Lee
                Originally posted by martmichals
                Originally posted by Konrad
                Technologies are only as safe as the idiot using them.
                Yes, SAFE is safe but it isn’t idiot proof. It really is no worse that the guy in the days of old panicking and holding full up as the plane snaps multiple times into the pits!

                As an engineer this was the bane of my existence. I was constantly asked (tasked, by the regulators and the management) to find technical solutions to personnel problems. Don’t treat these fools like unique precious snow flakes. Kick the flakes in the balls and move on.

                All the best,
                Konrad
                Well said Konrad.
                One quick question. How many members in your club stood by and watched this person fly over a spectators stand and not say anything. Our members would have been all over him. That's a direct violation of ama rules and club rules at the 3 different clubs I fly at here in NC. Enough of that. The first fomie I bought had safe. Was worried about flying a plane that was so much lighter than the nitro planes I had came back to. One time I pressed the button just to see if it worked. Was amazed but I knew I was not going to use it. First few flights in intermediate and then to experienced. I think anything that can help someone learn to fly is acceptable. Buying a plane going to a field and turning it into a pile of garbage on the first leaves a bad taste in anyone's mouth and theirs no telling how long that person saved just to get that plane. All people with the longing to fly dc has the funds to replace a plane at a drop of a dallar.
                Definitely anyone using technology for the purpose other than what it was designed  is an idiot. But by the same token a person being responsable and truly using it to help them learn will probably lead them to seek out other people and sorces to further their abilities and equipment.
                Our club members were all over him after they quickly realized that the pilot had not registered with the ama. They forced the pilot out and forbid him from flying at our field until he was registered the ama and had passed a safety test that our club requires. I didn't include this in my initial post as I didn't deem it necessary. The pilot felt as if he could do what he wanted, because he had his SAFEguard. I felt it necessary to get it out there that certain  people aren't using good tech in a good way.
                Well said. Sounds just like the same type of people that operate drones in an unsafe manner forceing everyone to have to register our planes now. I'm glade to hear you club even requires the safe and compentency test before allowing a person to fly with ama or a buddy box setup. Might I suggest your club having a sign in sheet and have a person who visits the field to produce there ama card. We have had several people to just show up and say they left there card at home in the past. If there card isn't with them we politely tell them they can't fly. Happy flying
                I stand corrected Konrad. Very true.
                Dewey l

                Comment

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