electric vs gas.

[weedsnager]

I have never flown gas/glow. I have around 10 electric planes and I'm always thinking about adding a fuel aircraft to the fleet. Looking for some feedback on guys that use gas and electric or made the switch from all fuel to electric. What are your thoughts on gas planes ?

[PlaneCrazy]

I have never flown gas/glow. I have around 10 electric planes and I'm always thinking about adding a fuel aircraft to the fleet. Looking for some feedback on guys that use gas and electric or made the switch from all fuel to electric. What are your thoughts on gas planes ?

I have had a bunch of glow planes and one gas plane and started in electrics about 2 years ago. Most of my purchases now are electric and they span quite a few areas. Once you have the batteries accumulated, it's cheap flying. I also love when I'm leaving our field, how so many guys are still cleaning up their planes. I once said I'd never get into electrics but with the way things are going, especially the warbird foamies, I'm perfectly happy sticking to electric and I'm starting to sell off all my glow engines.

Andy

[fhhuber]

Glow (often called "gas") is slowly going to die out.

Origin of using glow fuel was increased reliability and weight savings vs the points ignition gasoline model engines of the 1930's and 1940's Also these early gasoline engines had no ability to be throttled. (they didn't develop really decent model aircraft throttleable carbs until the 1960's which is also when proportional radios started to primarily be manufactured rather than all home made)

It is being squeezed by economics, electric and gasoline power.


The glow fuel is expensive with price going up and the engines are not getting cheaper. Electric power is becoming less and less expensive as batteries motors and ESCs continue getting cheaper and longer lived. Gasoline is far cheaper than glow fuel. The larger displacement engines have become more economical to buy recently and they have become available in smaller displacements.

Electronic ignition systems on modern gasoline engines have cut off the weight of the old magneto systems saving sometimes over HALF of the weight of the engine. With lighter batteries and electronic ignition and the modern small carbs we are seeing gasoline below 20CC in use now, where going below 28cc was impractical with the magneto ignition systems due to weight. Aircraft performance is far better with the loss of that magneto system weight. Starting is far easier and the engines are far more reliable.
This squeezes on glow fuel from the higher displacement end. Currently the smallest reliable gasoline model engines are in the .60ci (10 cc) to 1.20 ci (20cc) range, but there are some showing up smaller and it won't be long before the most common glow size (.40-.60 ci or appx .75 - 10 cc) is displaced by gasoline.

Electric is already displacing glow power up to .25 ci glow size and is encroaching on the market in sizes up to 50cc gasoline size models....

Glow power is showing up less and less at the local area model airfields.

I flew glow power models (Free Flight, CL and RC) from the late 1960's until appx 2010. In 2010 and 2012 I gave away ALL of my glow engines. I now fly electric models from 1/2 oz to 18 lbs with 100 watt to 5000 watt power systems (and working on a twin that will have appx 10,000 to 12,000 watts of power)
A 50 cc, appx 6.5 hp gasoline engine is appx 5000 watts.
I also currently have 3 gasoline aircraft with 33cc to 55 cc gasoline engines. They don't get flown much because electric is so much more convenient.

[wrongroad]

There is the word that I would use. Convenience.
I fly all electric these day after flying glow over thirty years ago. Coming back to the hobby and seeing the advance in electric power was simply amazing.
I have to say that packing up is quicker and I do not have the chore of cleaning the models and then storing the fuels and oils at home.
My wife and baby boy live in a two bedroom flat with no shed or garage so it is out of the question to have fuel inside.
My batteries are kept in a gal steel tool box and are easy to store.
I am not sure what methanol costs in other parts of the world but it is cheaper per litre here in Australia than petrol [gasoline].
Our club buys a 200 litre drum of methanol and then decants it into club members cans/bottles. The pilots then do their own witches brew to suit their needs. This is cheaper again to buy in bulk.
Having said that, one of our pilots runs a bigger petrol engine and a litre of fuel runs the model for some fifteen flights. @ $1.30 per litre, it is a cheap day for fuel and the modern engines use a sniff of oil.
Our club has fifty odd [not crazy] members and there are only two of us who are exclusively electric and two who are exclusively glow [well liquid fuel]. The other 96% run both with equal satisfaction.
I will admit to one fact. Liquid fuel engines sound soooooooo much better than electrics.
Here in lays another problem. Many clubs are running foul of the noise police and liquid fueled aircraft are slowly but surely being forced out of town so to speak.
My club was force to move from a very nice field to our current location when some of our members were receiving 'complaints' from nearby residents. Not about the noise of the planes but the commotion of the extra traffic we caused. Yep, one day a week [Wednesday] from nine am to midday was our flying time. We did a door knock one day and, surprise, surprise, everyone was at work. Except for the barking dogs that never shut up. Go figure!
Electrics will be the way way of the future and all governance bodies need to stay with the changes.
It may not be up to us in the long term if the electric wins out over the liquid fuel. It will the the people who live next door.
I have no doubt that batteries will get better and better and flight times will become longer. I also have no doubt that people will become less tolerant to other people having fun.
As I pointed out earlier, a great number of modelers are flying both. My club is a perfect example of this.
I also think that the new comers will gravitate towards electric because of the cost. To replace an electric motor is very cheap as compared to replacing a 'glow' engine.
Then back to the main word......convenience.
Regards and respect
Daryl

[Konrad]

I have never flown gas/glow. I have around 10 electric planes and I'm always thinking about adding a fuel aircraft to the fleet. Looking for some feedback on guys that use gas and electric or made the switch from all fuel to electric. What are your thoughts on gas planes ?

DON'T DO IT!!!

And this is from a guy that actually made national winning engines for the pinnacle RC glow engine event, FAI F3D Pylon.:cool:

I could write you a book on the why and hows of glow verses electric as I've been doing high powered electrics since 1986, but I've been asked not to do such things.:@:dodgy:

I hope you heed those three simple words!!:)

All kidding aside there are a lot of good engineering reasons glow is dead. Keep your focus on the future. Looking backwards with glow is fine but not something I'd recommend you actively engage in.

I know this is a controversial subject. So I hope I haven't crushed the fragile ego of the delicate unique snow flakes:rolleyes: that might have a counter view as to the validity of glow in today's world. I really had no such intentions.

If there are strong compelling reasons to start to go down the road to glow I'd like to hear them?

All the best,
Konrad

[Alpha]

I've flown glow quite a bit, although nothing close to Nationals level. There are certain advantages, I'd admit, but personally flying glow has become more of a nostalgia thing than anything else for me. These days the Electric format has taken hold and sprinted ahead of my glow planes in terms of convenience, practicality, transportability, cleanliness, aircraft platform options, cost, etc.

[OV10]

Gassers.............Nawwwww. While another club member is spending a half hour cleaning the slime off of 2 birds to pack it in, I've managed to rack up another 3 flights in the log book. A point that I don't think anyone has ever really considered is the health exposure of huffing those nitro/caster fumes. When I got back into the sport after surviving my stage 4 throat cancer with the radical neck surgery and chemo/radiation, I immediately realized that I could not tolerate those smells any more. Hell, it took me almost 5 years just to be able to tolerate eating ketchup again!! I am ever so thankful that the technological advances on electrics are where they are today and improving as I speak, like Graphene batteries where I expect them to obsolete Lipos for safety, performance and longevity. So as Konrad indicated, look to the future and wrap your acceptance around the ever evolving technology. Alpha's last statement just hits the electric validation topic squarely on the nose!!
Best regards,

[Aros]

Love your avatar weedsnager...(and your user handle is hilarious!)

I've been only minutely intrigued by gas planes over the years simply because I've never had one before more than any other reason. However, if I had a dime for every minute that I saw gas guys trying to get their plane to start, or tinker with on the bench while I was enjoying my flying I could buy a new PNP. The smell, the mess, the wasted time on the bench instead of flying...All conspires to keep me where I belong...In electric flight.

And now with realistic sounds being added, it's leaving gas/nitro in the dust IMO.

[Pauly]

I'm new to the hobby myself and electric is the only thing I have flown. The club I'm in has both electric and gas. I know there are several of the guys that have made the switch from gas to electric because of the ease of electric with less mess and a lot easier to start. I know I have myself had the thought of wanting a gas just to say I have one. I do thing there are a lot of many options in the type of plane you want to fly. I feel like I'm stuck in the same situation as you are my friend. So good luck to you in what ever you choose.

[weedsnager]

Love your avatar weedsnager...(and your user handle is hilarious!)

I've been only minutely intrigued by gas planes over the years simply because I've never had one before more than any other reason. However, if I had a dime for every minute that I saw gas guys trying to get their plane to start, or tinker with on the bench while I was enjoying my flying I could buy a new PNP. The smell, the mess, the wasted time on the bench instead of flying...All conspires to keep me where I belong...In electric flight.

And now with realistic sounds being added, it's leaving gas/nitro in the dust IMO.

I fish, therefore I snag weeds sometimes

[Aros]

That's funny because it can also apply in this hobby as well. :D

[Alpha]

I'm new to the hobby myself and electric is the only thing I have flown. The club I'm in has both electric and gas. I know there are several of the guys that have made the switch from gas to electric because of the ease of electric with less mess and a lot easier to start. I know I have myself had the thought of wanting a gas just to say I have one. I do thing there are a lot of many options in the type of plane you want to fly. I feel like I'm stuck in the same situation as you are my friend. So good luck to you in what ever you choose.

As I have steadily transitioned to electric, I can echo your comment about there being less mess! It's so nice to pull a plane out of the trunk, battery in, fly, land, then put it back in the trunk. No need to wipe everything down or wash my hands to avoid smelling up the car.

[StormyDog1962]

Yes Electrics are convenient and clean however I still get a thrill starting my 50cc Desert Aircraft Engine and smelling the exhaust and I love the sound. For me it's as real as it gets considering real planes burn fossil fuel. Nitro is a bit messy but the sound of a Saito 120 4 stroke in my WWI SE5A is something that can't be replaced by an electronic sound generator. Are all the advances in electrics awesome YES are Electrics saving RC Flying Fields due to no noise issues YES but I will never give up the fossil fuel. I enjoy all 3 power options in both my planes and helicopters. Nothing better than fogging down the field with some 30% Nitro fuel Bugs Hate It!

[PappaBear]

I'm with you on this one Wayne. Electric is clean reliable and quite. The technology is getting better all the time.

However I love the smell and the sound of a glow engine, two stroke or four stroke. You get a longer flight with gas or glow, and when the carburetor is set up correctly they are very reliable. I start all my gas and glow engines by hand, I don't own or use a starter. The one thing I will say about the oil and stuff all over the model. You do have to clean it, and this is an excellent opportunity to closely inspect the airframe for damage and wear. Things spotted cleaning can often be over looked in a clean electric model.

One tip though. Just because its clean don't get complacent and over look the things you would see automatically if you had to clean the model. Control horns, hinges, pushrods, servo gears, servo output arms and screws. Check all the above on a regular basis.

Martin

[jobinseattle]

I have been in this hobby for a couple of years now and have only used electric. I never plan on using anything besides that. I have spent quite a bit on the electric setup and am not interested in gas or glow setups. I would rather spend that money on new planes. However I do love the sound the gas planes make. It sounds so authentic.

[boomer108]

I to used to fly gas 30 years back,but since getting back into flying a few years back I've gone electric. I don't miss the mess only the sound but other people in our club fly gas so I can hear there's and not have a mess of my own. Good flying everyone no matter what you fly!

Roy B.

[fhhuber]

Prop choice can bring back the sound... at least half of the noise was from the tips of the props.

[olwarbirds]

I used nitro then gas aka "Slimmers" for around 30 yrs before my first experience with electric. Which was with RC on and offroad car, trucks and buggies. I knew then sometime around the mid 80's that eventually electrics were going to be the way to go. Around 2002 I started messing around with my first electric plane, 9 yrs or so ago I sold off all my fossil fuel rc planes, vehicles and boats. I went all electric ever since and dont miss the fossil fuel at all. Sure wish I had all the monies Ive spent on papertowels and windex. If you do decide to get a fuel plane, I do suggest going with a gasser not nitro. Like fhhuber mentioned the advances in the smaller gassers is almost as impressive as the advances in electrics. Whatever you do, have fun with it and do what makes you happy... happy flyn... DJ

[Grossman56]

My early experience was with control line models (Cox PT 17). "Okay, squeeze the gas in ,oops, that was messy, okay, where's the throttle? Hook the spring starter on and wind up the prop, flip...flip....flip. Brraasa...braaaawwwww bb... bbb.. bbb.......... Okay, where's he throttle set at again? Wind up the prop. BBrrr...BBBRRRAAA............. Okay, to heck with the spring thing. Flip, Flip. Flip...Is my battery any good???Man, why can't they make these things electric??


AHHHH technology!!

Grossman56

[olwarbirds]

My early experience was with control line models (Cox PT 17). "Okay, squeeze the gas in ,oops, that was messy, okay, where's the throttle? Hook the spring starter on and wind up the prop, flip...flip....flip. Brraasa...braaaawwwww bb... bbb.. bbb.......... Okay, where's he throttle set at again? Wind up the prop. BBrrr...BBBRRRAAA............. Okay, to heck with the spring thing. Flip, Flip. Flip...Is my battery any good???Man, why can't they make these things electric??


AHHHH technology!!

Grossman56

:D like your sound effects and so true !