AR627t - angle limits

[jasmith41]

Title is wrong - it's actually the AR637T...

hi all, new to this entirely, but jumping in the deep end...
can anyone tell me what angle limits to use with as3x on so that the plane will still do full rolls and loops...? the default setting are like 60, 60, 50, 40. Is this a % or degree of angle number? If it's a %, would the plane do a full roll if i changed the value to 100%...? Totally confused... nothing good out there for explanations either... Please advise... thanks in advance...

[xviper]

It must be made clear that there are 2 concepts at work here. AS3X is the gyro compensation and is in terms of % gain. The higher the gain, the more gyro compensation. If you are quoting "gain", then you have 60% for roll, 50% for pitch and 40% for yaw. However, then you mention "angle number". This is a function of SAFE and those numbers are in terms of degrees of roll and pitch. SAFE does not intervene for yaw and thus, are only 2 numbers. Safe limits will prevent you from doing a full roll or loop. AS3X gain will not and will still allow you to do rolls and loops, but then, if the gains are too high in any axis, the plane will oscillate in the axis where the gain is set too high. If really too high, the plane will oscillate itself to pieces if you don't turn it off quickly.
The numbers you put up are likely "gains" in each axis. You have to go into the SAFE menu to get the numbers (in degrees) for the limits of bank and pitch. Those gains are fairly typical for a pre-programmed 637T. SAFE bank and pitch angle limits are generally in the 60 and 50 degree range. There are also separate numbers for pitch UP and pitch DOWN limits.

[jasmith41]

Thanks xviper - I appreciate it. A couple more questions if you don't mind...
1. I'm occasionally getting a 'holds 2' warning on my ix20. Do you know what i should be doing when that occurs? The documentation and manual doesn't provide much insight other than to say don't fly...
2. If I set 3 flight modes, one for safe, one for envelope, and the third left off (inhibit), will i still have as3x stability active in the third (inhibit) mode?

I need a flying field outside my back door... :)

[kallend]

Totally confused... nothing good out there for explanations either... Please advise... thanks in advance...

There are dozens and dozens of videos out there from Horizon Hobbies and others, along with extended explanations on RCGroups. You just need to look harder.

[BluesDragon]

I'm curious as to what led you here? Only because you're 'entirely new' to the hobby. You obviously jumped into the deep end with an HH product, yet find yourself in a MRC forum. Not that that's a bad thing, all is loved here, just wondered how you found your way here for such a query. Anyhow..
Assuming you're using a Spektrum radio, where you can see the settings in the Forward Programming mode, set your rates to 'adjustable'. If this is the first time using this receiver, they're most likely already set this way. Your AS3X rates need to be 'fixed' before you can set the Safe rates. The 'Angle Limits' are for the Safe settings. The AS3X limits are just for stabilization. They won't prevent you from doing rolls and loops. It just holds your aircraft true as possible from wind turbulence. If your radio is an 8 channel or above, you set the the knob for adjusting the rates while in flight. Knob in the off position is 0% (no AS3X), all the way up to 100%. While in flight, turn the knob up until you get oscillation. Then back off until smooth. Land the aircraft and set the rates you landed on to fixed.
Now you can move on to setting the Safe rates(angle limit). Same as you did with the AS3X rates. These are to prevent you from rolls and loops. It is more of a panic, dumb thumb, save my plane before it turns to confetti, kinda mode. It can be set to any open switch, so you can fly with stability and then just flip the switch to save your aircraft.
That's my best explanation from what I've learnt on the matter. Professor Google is a fantastic teacher. Just ask him and he'll guide you down the right path...

[jasmith41]

Thanks again...

[xviper]

Thanks xviper - I appreciate it. A couple more questions if you don't mind...
1. I'm occasionally getting a 'holds 2' warning on my ix20. Do you know what i should be doing when that occurs? The documentation and manual doesn't provide much insight other than to say don't fly...
2. If I set 3 flight modes, one for safe, one for envelope, and the third left off (inhibit), will i still have as3x stability active in the third (inhibit) mode?

I need a flying field outside my back door... :)

Kallend is right. Horizon Hobby has numerous YouTube videos on all kinds of subjects and stability and programming Spektrum receivers is but a small number of them.
As for the "holds" thing, if you are talking about the "holds and frame losses" on your TX, this is an indication of signal interruptions and signal losses when your transmitter is talking to and listening to your receiver. Horizon has a very useful YouTube video about this very subject but the gist of it is that it is not a serious problem unless you get many, many holds and losses. You can do things like adjust the location of your receiver and the orientation of your receiver antennas to minimize those holds and losses. A few is always normal.

[Gilatrout]

Kallend is right. Horizon Hobby has numerous YouTube videos on all kinds of subjects and stability and programming Spektrum receivers is but a small number of them.
As for the "holds" thing, if you are talking about the "holds and frame losses" on your TX, this is an indication of signal interruptions and signal losses when your transmitter is talking to and listening to your receiver. Horizon has a very useful YouTube video about this very subject but the gist of it is that it is not a serious problem unless you get many, many holds and losses. You can do things like adjust the location of your receiver and the orientation of your receiver antennas to minimize those holds and losses. A few is always normal.

I disagree a hold is a serious loss of signal that results in an interruption of control of the aircraft and should be resolved before flying the aircraft. Holds are not normal.

Frame losses are normal and as long as there aren't a huge number you can ignore them.

To address the holds and excessive Frame Losses, you can usually resolve this by looking at antenna placement and orientation.

First I'm assuming you Range Test your airplanes before flight. A hold is an indication that during the test the receiver and its antenna (s) are not receiving the signal from the transmitter. When range testing, be sure to test all orientations of the aircraft relative to the transmitter. If you get a hold, move the antennas until you get a clean Range Test with no holds.

If you get a hold in flight, land and fix the problem, then range test again.

Antennas should be placed so they are not in the same geometric plane (parallel antennas are bad) and should be placed so that they are not blocked by the battery and clear of any tangle of servo wires.

In rare cases holds can be an indication of a problem in the transmitter. Recently we had a flyer lose several planes because he ignored the holds.when one of the diversity antennas in the transmitter was burned out.

[xviper]

I disagree a hold is a serious loss of signal that results in an interruption of control of the aircraft and should be resolved before flying the aircraft. Holds are not normal.

Frame losses are normal and as long as there aren't a huge number you can ignore them.

You're right. I should have paid more attention when viewing this video. (Or my memory is real bad.)

[jasmith41]

guys, still learning how this site works too... i didn't realize you all replied...(duh). Anyway, thank you - i appreciate it. i ended up on here from watching James youtube vids. i also have just as many FW planes now as i do Eflites, not that it should matter, but i'm putting Spectrum receivers in all of the PNPs and they're working great. On frame loss topic, though, why are the antennae not run thru the fuse and to the outside...? I've done this on planes i had holds warnings on and it resolved the issue... Also, when should i consider putting in a remote receiver...?
xviper Gilatrout BluesDragon

[Gilatrout]

guys, still learning how this site works too... i didn't realize you all replied...(duh). Anyway, thank you - i appreciate it. i ended up on here from watching James youtube vids. i also have just as many FW planes now as i do Eflites, not that it should matter, but i'm putting Spectrum receivers in all of the PNPs and they're working great. On frame loss topic, though, why are the antennae not run thru the fuse and to the outside...? I've done this on planes i had holds warnings on and it resolved the issue... Also, when should i consider putting in a remote receiver...?
xviper Gilatrout BluesDragon

The only reason not to run an external antenna.is aesthetics. I have a couple of planes that have discrete whiskers to address reception issues found during range testing.

I put remote receivers in most of my planes. The $30 investment on a $300+ airplane is minimal and gives substantial protection against signal loss when placed properly.

[jasmith41]

Thanks Gila - you've confirmed what I thought on antenna routing.
Since I'm using all Spektrum rx, should I just get their brand and be done with it on the remotes...?
The planes I'm talking about are the $600 variety, so even if they're $45, it would be dumb not to do it.
These should get mounted as far back in the plane as poss, correct...?

[jasmith41]

The only reason not to run an external antenna.is aesthetics. I have a couple of planes that have discrete whiskers to address reception issues found during range testing.

I put remote receivers in most of my planes. The $30 investment on a $300+ airplane is minimal and gives substantial protection against signal loss when placed properly.

Gila, can you take a look at Spektrum's remotes and suggest what I should use with these Spektrum receivers...? I've pretty much exclusively using the AR637T in these planes with one exception - The F15 needed 7 chs so I bought the AR8360T for it...
Any suggestions would be appreciated. I'm thinking their 9745 or 9747 would work...(?)

[xviper]

guys, still learning how this site works too... i didn't realize you all replied...(duh). Anyway, thank you - i appreciate it. i ended up on here from watching James youtube vids. i also have just as many FW planes now as i do Eflites, not that it should matter, but i'm putting Spectrum receivers in all of the PNPs and they're working great. On frame loss topic, though, why are the antennae not run thru the fuse and to the outside...? I've done this on planes i had holds warnings on and it resolved the issue... Also, when should i consider putting in a remote receiver...?
xviper Gilatrout BluesDragon

I use remote antennas (aka: satellite RXs) whenever the main RX has a port to plug one in - not all of them do and some have more than one sat port. Complex planes with a lot of internal wiring and power lines may do better with more than one sat RX placed in various locations.
Starting this past season, I've gone to all my planes and where possible, I've run the antenna through the foam and to the outside. For example, I've got planes where the main RX has one whisker running out the side and one going straight up where the canopy closes, leaving a tiny whisker popping out the top. Then the sat antenna is run to the nose of the plane and each whisker goes through the foam and straight out the sides. It's not too difficult to push a small pin hole through the foam using a tiny, stiff wire and then push the whisker through the hole. A dab of FoamTac where the whisker goes in will hold it secure but will allow removal later if desired.
We have a well known "dead zone" at one of the fields and planes that used to have a momentary glitch flying through that zone, no longer have a glitch when the antennas have been run to the outside. Sure, they don't make the plane look "scale" but I prefer radio security over how it looks with a little wire sticking out.

[jasmith41]

I use remote antennas (aka: satellite RXs) whenever the main RX has a port to plug one in - not all of them do and some have more than one sat port. Complex planes with a lot of internal wiring and power lines may do better with more than one sat RX placed in various locations.
Starting this past season, I've gone to all my planes and where possible, I've run the antenna through the foam and to the outside. For example, I've got planes where the main RX has one whisker running out the side and one going straight up where the canopy closes, leaving a tiny whisker popping out the top. Then the sat antenna is run to the nose of the plane and each whisker goes through the foam and straight out the sides. It's not too difficult to push a small pin hole through the foam using a tiny, stiff wire and then push the whisker through the hole. A dab of FoamTac where the whisker goes in will hold it secure but will allow removal later if desired.
We have a well known "dead zone" at one of the fields and planes that used to have a momentary glitch flying through that zone, no longer have a glitch when the antennas have been run to the outside. Sure, they don't make the plane look "scale" but I prefer radio security over how it looks with a little wire sticking out.

Perfect! Thanks much - I appreciate it. I've run the out the side and bottom on my Draco and found some red elect. tape that matched perfectly over it (the bare wire portion does not get covered at all - it's still fully exposed). I did the same thing with my F5 handful, and then some of the smaller 64mm planes by default.

[jasmith41]

I disagree a hold is a serious loss of signal that results in an interruption of control of the aircraft and should be resolved before flying the aircraft. Holds are not normal.

Frame losses are normal and as long as there aren't a huge number you can ignore them.

To address the holds and excessive Frame Losses, you can usually resolve this by looking at antenna placement and orientation.

First I'm assuming you Range Test your airplanes before flight. A hold is an indication that during the test the receiver and its antenna (s) are not receiving the signal from the transmitter. When range testing, be sure to test all orientations of the aircraft relative to the transmitter. If you get a hold, move the antennas until you get a clean Range Test with no holds.

If you get a hold in flight, land and fix the problem, then range test again.

Antennas should be placed so they are not in the same geometric plane (parallel antennas are bad) and should be placed so that they are not blocked by the battery and clear of any tangle of servo wires.

In rare cases holds can be an indication of a problem in the transmitter. Recently we had a flyer lose several planes because he ignored the holds.when one of the diversity antennas in the transmitter was burned out.

Is it possible to get a 'hold' warning from having the tx being too close to the rx...? I'm getting them (3x now) on my F15 with the 8ch Spektrum receiver in it while just setting it up...

[Gilatrout]

Is it possible to get a 'hold' warning from having the tx being too close to the rx...? I'm getting them (3x now) on my F15 with the 8ch Spektrum receiver in it while just setting it up...

It's possible yes. You can generate holds artificially going in and out of the system menu.

Keep an eye on it though.

As to remotes, I use srxl2 remotes one the new receivers. Either version will do.