HOLD TIME FOR HORIZON PRODUCT SUPPORT IS OVER ONE HOUR HOLD TIME ?? seriously

[Grossman56]

Sometimes, you just need to have dealt with a lousy company to realize a good one when you are dealing with them. So, Motion R/C has a returned airplane with one servo non functioning, sounds like a deal to me, where can I get it??


Grossman56

[OV10]

Sometimes, you just need to have dealt with a lousy company to realize a good one when you are dealing with them. So, Motion R/C has a returned airplane with one servo non functioning, sounds like a deal to me, where can I get it??

Grossman56

Now it becomes clear as to the reason you haven't gotten the 38 yet to join ranks with Lon n me........been waiting for a scratch n dent :p

[Warbird Dan]

I's rather funny that you focus on "a minor problem" of the servo and ignore the eight months(8 months) I spent going back and forth with them to get my Ferocious Frankie in the air. The bad servo in my P38 was the straw that broke the camel's back. I wasn't about to junk up another plane for them. I know Horizon would replace the plane because it has happened. With me and a flying buddy. Those are two I know of. As far as "going about it the wrong way" is concerned, the point is I shouldn't be having to replace their servos for Motion to get a working product. However, if you are willing to accept such deplorable service, that is, of course, up to you. And if you keep accepting it and rebuilding their planes for them I guarantee they will keep expecting you to.

[Warbird Dan]

BTW, I offered to send them the outer wing so they could repair it properly. They just refused to fix the problem.

[Tom]

Warbird Dan did have more retract problems with his late 2013 FMS 1700mm P-51D. Here is the history:

12/9/2013 - 1700mm FMS P-51D purchased
3/25/2014 - no charge replacement retract sent due to dead retract found during the build process
4/10/2014 - customer had another bad retract during the build process. We sent him an upgraded FMS metal retract at no charge
4/18/2014 - rear retract now bad. replacement sent at no charge
5/2/2014 - two more bad retracts. two replacements sent at no charge
customer flying plane now.
7/16/2014 - two more bad retracts. two more replacements sent at no charge
9/23/2014 - customer was upset because wing is not in good condition after the retrat swaps so wing sent at no charge.

For the July replacement, we told the customer the warranty had expired. It had long expired. Because of all his issues, we agreed to send another retract set at no charge. The customer asked for a spare wing and FMS would not cover this. We paid for his new set of wings out of our pocket and sent the customer a $40 gift certificate for all his trouble.

Fast forward to 2016. Customer refused our warranty replacement servo for his new P-38. The customer demanded a new replacement wing with all servos, lights, etc pre-installed because he did not want to swap the servo in the wing. Since he refused our warranty replacement, we sent him a pre-paid shipping label at no charge so he could return his P-38 for a complete refund. I'm sure all of you know how other companies would or would not handle a replacement for a bad servo.

We continue our commitment to provide the best and more innovative products in the industry backed by the best service in the industry and this will never change.

[Grossman56]

Tom, so....what are you going to do with the returned plane???

Obviously, he's going elsewhere for his airplane purchases in the future as is his right. This is just one of those unfortunate incidences that, wel, sometimes happen. Remember what I went through with Iron Ass?? You guys did right by me,
I had a bad servo in BBD as well as a bad servo in the Pitts and I'm sure a few things that I've forgotten about, bottom line is that the problems were handled an I was satisfied. I understand Warbird Dan's side as well, it is frustrating, but, I thought you did well by him. He, on the other hand, does not, so he's is free to try someone else, but I doubt if he'll get better customer service.
Dan, if you read this, sorry for all your troubles, I hope things go better for you in the future, after all, we just want to fly our planes.

Tom, let me know what you plan to do with it.

Grossman56

[Warbird Dan]

Tom was pretty much accurate with all the problems I went through on the P51. However he strayed somewhat from the facts in describing the recent problems with the P38. I did not demand a complete new wing with all servos, etc. What I did demand was for Motion to be the one to replace the servo, not me again. I offered to send back the offending wing to be replaced or repaired, instead, they sent me a return receipt and refunded my money in full. And, yes other companies I've dealt with since the 70's to the present have done a much better job of taking care of their customers.

Thank you Grossman for your understanding. That is more than I got from Motion as you can probably determine from the attitude in the last part of Tom's post. I do believe him whey he boasts they will never change.

[OV10]

OMG, That is freakin unbelievable Tom how far you bent over backwards for this unappreciative and delusional individual.
The majority of industry standard warranty on electrical items is 30 days and you far surpassed that. After he is up and flying for 6 weeks(5/2-7/16) and you still give him another set of retracts, way beyond excellent customer service. I'd like to know what the names of these other companies that he brags he has dealt with since the 70's to present that have done better. Having seen the gamut of user and takers in the retail world, all I can say is good on you Tom for moving on to not worrying about retaining this one.

[TiredIronGRB]

You just can't please some people. anyone building and flying these planes should understand the issues that ALL these planes have and expect to have to replace some parts from time to time.

WD, I think you misread Grossman's post.

[Tom]

..... I did not demand a complete new wing with all servos, etc. What I did demand was for Motion to be the one to replace the servo, not me again. I offered to send back the offending wing to be replaced or repaired, instead, they sent me a return receipt and refunded my money in full.....

Hi Dan, maybe we read your email incorrectly but we got the impression you wanted a brand new wing with electronics or a refund. We setup an order for a free replacement servo for you but you asked us to cancel the warranty replacement. Below are screen caps of three emails from you to Motion RC Dan. I removed your last name for privacy. Our goal is complete customer satisfaction. Since this plane was not acceptable to you, we paid the return shipping and provided a complete refund as you asked. emails from you below:

[xviper]

Looks to me that the first servo didn't work, then he used a known good old servo and it too, didn't work. So, maybe it wasn't a bad servo. Replacing the whole wing would NOT have fixed this as the problem was further along the electronic stream. He seems like a novice when it comes to RC planes. This is NOT how you test a possible dead servo. A hobbyist with some experience would have known this.
"Product not as advertised" ........................ This is a statement made by a person not experienced with the RC business. This is the type of person who goes running back to the store screaming "REFUND! I want one that works". This may be the SOP for a blender or a vacuum cleaner but in the RC hobby? He'd best stick to buying blenders and vacuum cleaners. I can't even count the number of planes I've purchased that didn't work out of the box. I diagnosed the problem and I fixed them. That's the way it is in RC.
"Oh NO! I tried to put on a control rod lock and the plastic broke.................... I wanna a new plane!"

[dkalwishky]

I can understand Dan's position of spending $349 for a plane that had a problem, that stinks and I get it but it does happen.

HOWEVER the issue is not with MotionRC but with Freewing in the case of the P-38 and FMS for the P-51. Motion went out of their way for this customer on the P-51 to make him happy and resolve the issue, that's exceptional customer service and a testament to MotionRC and FMS (if they were involved) in getting the issues worked out. I can totally see why MotionRC would not want to continue doing business with this individual.

My P-38 was in the preorder batch, it had incorrect screws of wrong lengths, I did not complain knowing this was a first run of the product so I dealt with it by getting the correct screws from my local hobby shop, big deal, cost me a few bucks. The $4.85 servo that controls the nose door failed after a few months of flying, no idea why. I had a spare in my parts bin so I replaced it. Big deal, it happens.

Perhaps Warbird Dan is not the right customer to be buying new to the market planes from Chinese companies. I buy Freewing planes because I like their looks, flight characteristics and price point. Right or wrong I expect to have a few bumps along the way because they are built in China. Bid deal, I don't care.

Back in the lat 70's early 80's when I started in RC my dad owned a hobby shop so I got to see people as customers and how ridiculous they can be, as an adult now and a customer to my local hobby shop and MotionRC. I've vowed to never act like some of the customers we had to deal with. One thing that always rubbed us the wrong way was someone buying a plane from Tower Hobbies and have a problem with it then come to us to help fix it, for free.

[Tom]

We always want our manufacturers to strive for perfection but unfortunately 100% perfection is not possible in any industry. While I like to think I'm a pretty good pilot, I do have the occasional mishap and things happen to planes as I fly them. Unfortunately, there are occasionally the same mishaps in the manufacturing process. We are always working with factories to minimize these. We are currently on our second trip to China in the last couple months in order to help factories perfect QC and QA. We've routinely left family and friends and spent a ton of money on travel and lodging to make sure we carry the best planes on the market. When something does happen, we are here to help. In the case of the P-38 in question here, it was a bad aileron servo and not a Y cable or anything else. We tested it to be 100% sure. The plane now has some minimal foam damage (dings and dents) from round trip transit to and from Dan and needs a new servo. It is set to go to our scratch and dent section at $319 with a new servo included in the box.

[Warbird Dan]

"Back in the lat 70's early 80's when I started in RC my dad owned a hobby shop so I got to see people as customers and how ridiculous they can be, as an adult now and a customer to my local hobby shop and MotionRC. I've vowed to never act like some of the customers we had to deal with. One thing that always rubbed us the wrong way was someone buying a plane from Tower Hobbies and have a problem with it then come to us to help fix it, for free."

Come on now. I have at least as much experience in RC as you have. I said I have been doing this since the 70's. My father also owned a hobby shop in the 40's. I have been purchasing aircraft, planks and rotary, since then. The only issues I have ever had with shoddy product support before Motion has been with Hobbico. I have purchased three aircraft from Motion and two of them have had parts issues. Yes Motion finally took care of the issues with the P51. It took 8 months before I could put it in the air and have some confidence that it would be in one piece after the landing without the landing gear collapsing. And believe me the plane looked like it after all that damage. When WE finally got good gear in it, it has performed beautifully. I love to fly the plane. And all I wanted on the P38 was to send back the outboard wing panel with the bad servo and have it fixed properly. Digging a servo out of foam is not the way to start off a gorgeous plane like the Lightening. And everyone keeps telling me that it's not Motion's fault. They made the contracts with the Chinese they accepted my money for the product and they are responsible to me not the Chinese. If they make bad deals that don't hold the manufacturer responsible for inferior products, they, Motion, are responsible for making them good instead passing the bad stuff on to me and expecting me to make it good so they can keep their profit margin high. The good thing I hear in all of this is that Tom is going to address the QA and QC issues with their Chinese partners. As stated before, if dkalwishky continues to expect nothing for his money, he will get nothing for his money. I sincerely hope Motion can straighten out their quality control problems. They are at least now addressing them. If they don't hold the line with their manufacturing partners, we modelers will suffer the consequences of bad overseas contracts that will force other distributors to cut corners to compete and none us will be able to purchase good products anymore.

[Tom]

Dan, I'm sorry you had bad luck with one plane you purchased 3 years ago for sure. This was an FMS problem, not a Motion RC problem. You opened the box 4 months after you purchased the plane and we had you in the air one month later. I'd ask that you please refrain from saying it took 8 months to sort out the problem. FMS did in fact have a bad batch of retracts and we made sure they fixed their retracts and you had a perfect plane. You seem to be happy with the plane.

It is painful to hear you feel our FlightLine RC P-38 is shoddy - especially since you never fully built it or flew it. We take extreme measures to design and test the FlightLine RC Planes. We put our hearts and souls into these planes. We are at the manufacturer in China to ensure quality. We are in China often enough to see who and who is not helping and supporting their manufacturers. Nobody works to ensure a quality product more than Motion RC. I can tell you that with 100% certainty. Any manufacturer in this hobby will tell you the same. Your new plane had a bad servo. Unfortunately, no company in the world can ensure 100% perfection 100% of the time. This is why warranties and customer service exist. While we are very disappointed you had one bad servo in your new P-38, we did offer to help and you refused as is evidenced by your emails in post #30 above.

I've been in this hobby for 30+ years. I've purchased from nearly every hobby shop and experienced what was out there. Making better products and providing better service is what drove Mark and I to start Motion RC 4 years ago. We are trying to make an honest living in a hobby we enjoy and are passionate about. Our goal is not only to provide the best products on the market but the best service to go with it. I lose sleep over a single customer who has a problem. I know the rest of the Motion team is just as fanatical.

[Hippie 64]

Tom, Mark and all MRC personnel, you guys do a great job !!! As anyone knows you can not please everyone . It's impossible .

We as a whole know what MRC strives for and you guys do a helluva job . Because of your efforts other Vendors have had to change the way they do business because they were feeling it where it matters ,in their sales .

As for the customer here from what I'm reading there is no pleasing him . You sell , your not a repair shop . It comes in and you make it available to us . That's the nuts and bolts of it . Sleep good knowing we are all very pleased with the job MRC does

Bryan

[farmflyer]

I have only had a couple of small issues with any of the planes Iv purchased from MotionRC and they have always been more than reasonable in taking care of me. In fact on one occasion I was offered a spare part from one of their staffs own personal spare parts collection to replace a bad part they didn't have in stock at the time. Thanks again for the offer Ryan. I'm damn sure no one from any other company would offer a costumer they didn't even know their own personal parts to help them out. That's one of the reasons I will always be a MRC loyal costumer.

[xviper]

"Back in the lat 70's early 80's when I started in RC my dad owned a hobby shop so I got to see people as customers and how ridiculous they can be, as an adult now and a customer to my local hobby shop and MotionRC. I've vowed to never act like some of the customers we had to deal with.

I don't know you or the "complete" history and minute details of what transpired between you and Motion on this purchase, but just from what I've seen posted here, I'd say that you just put one foot over that line to become "like some of those customers". Sorry, but that's the way it all reads to me.

[Warbird Dan]

Tom, I will defer to your timeline on the P51. It was only 6 months from the time I started the build instead of 8 months before I had a reliable, flyable Mustang. What I've seen in this whole exchange is that you are 1 for 2 in delivering a fully working product to me. I have never had so many problems with models from ANY vendor in the 45 years I have been involved in RC - 60 years in flying models. I started in control line. I guarantee no other business would consider one in three a good quality control record including your competitors. And most of the posts here tell of the problems your other customers have had with your products. Sure, there are certainly going to be occasional problems but not on this scale and other companies take care of the problems instead of throwing an $8 servo at it and telling their customer, "Sorry, our policy is, you fix it yourself". I have been shafted by Motion, vilified by other posts on this forum and cast as the cause of the problem instead of it being a Motion problem. Again I hope you improve your QC to better than 1 in 3 or start taking more responsibility for your shortcomings.