4S with 6S conversion package

[Hippie 64]

It would be wonderful to see planes built with 4s . The plus is make a drop hardware package for a 6s hop up . It gives the best of both worlds for the guys who are in the 4s budget and the guys who are into the 6s speed . Also the Mfgrs only build one plane to cover both . Its a win all the way around and think of the area of the market that can be covered .

Just a thought

Bryan

[xviper]

Such a model would require a bigger ESC and a motor that can handle 6s. What you really want is a plane built as a 6s but owners could fly it on 4s. It's easier to fly on less cells with a plane that was designed to operate on more than it is to fly on more cells on a plane that was designed to operate on less.
I hopped up my FMS 1450mm P-51. The ESC had to be increased substantially and the motor came out of a plane that normally ran on 6s. This made the plane very fast. In fact, it was too fast, scary fast and I downgraded it back to a 4s system using a higher kv motor but keeping the bigger ESC. Increasing the cell count by 2 is a pretty big step and the hardware needed is not inconsequential. Building a plane that can operate like that out of the box would increase the price unreasonably for most buyers. Besides, the industry would make far more money if they left it up to the buyer to do the "hop up" as they wished.
HobbyKing (and even HobbyZone) has made a couple of planes like this already, but those are sold as 4s planes that "can" be flown on 3s. The 4s version is quite fast but not scary fast, while the 3s powered plane is more docile but not so much as to be sluggish. It's a delicate compromise that not all manufacturers wish to undertake.

[Hippie 64]

I see what your saying but that will send the cost higher for the 4s part . Where as the 6s customers are usually expecting the higher cost. If the ESC , motor etc. where available in a upgraded ready to drop in package the cost could possibly come out to about the same . Also less storage space for the retailer by only having 1 plane box to shelf .

Again just an idea I had while looking at parts .......


Bryan

[xviper]

I think I may have misunderstood what your idea was. I originally thought you wanted a plane that you could simply use a 4s or a 6s battery, without changing anything. Such a plane would have to be built to fly on 6s to begin with. Now, I understand you to say that you are interested in a "package" that you can buy so you could fly a 4s plane on 6s. Meaning you want the manufacturer to offer a package that includes the required bigger ESC and a motor that can handle 2 extra cells.
Anytime a manufacturer offers an optional "package" like this, they will undoubtedly charge more money than if you just went into the internet and found a supplier like HobbyKing (an example only, there are many other sellers out there that will serve this need) and buy a bigger ESC and a suitable motor to run on extra cells. I've done this on several models and it's so much cheaper than buying the same upgraded parts from the plane's manufacturer.
In fact, one manufacturer has done something similar (besides the ones I've already mentioned previously). The Flightline P-38 offers an optional engine and prop package that gives the plane an added boost in performance. In this case, the only difference is that the battery used is the same and the ESC stays the same. The availability of such an option makes it very simple for the average user to just click "buy" and have everything needed to do the upgrade. For more seasoned RC guys, some money can be saved if similar spec'd motors and props were found at, for example, HobbyKing.

[Alpha]

Hi Bryan, to make sure I'm understanding you, are you talking about having the same plane offered with a 4s power system or a 6s system, much like we currently offer the same Stinger 64 plane with either a 3s power system or a 4s power system?

To your comment about only stocking one plane box, that implies the warehouse would insert the different power system options themselves, in a separate box aside from the airplanes? Am I understanding that correctly? In essence, this is what Multiplex has sometimes done in the past, with their separately boxed power systems. Is this what you were asking about?

[Hippie 64]

No Alpha I'm thinking more along the lines of being built with the 4s as the purchase. Then an option of purchasing the 6s as a upgrade to be installed by the customer. The parts required would be offered as a package including the bigger motor , ESC , etc .
Like buying extra parts but it would be a speed kit or whatever it was to called

[xviper]

Hobbyists have been doing this for a long time. They simply go out and pick and choose the components they feel will work best for them. For these types of people, even if a "package" was offered, they would not likely buy it because they wish to make their own choices. There may not be enough of a customer base in that level of the hobby that could justify a manufacturer offering a pre-selected, hand chosen package. If such an attempt were made, it would have to be "worth it" for them to do it and the cost would turn many people away. Then there's the matter of whether or not any production model could actually survive an increase in performance with such a drastic increase in cell count. 1 cell more is doable, but going 2 cells more, the airframe may not be able to take it and that option would have to be detuned or downgraded. If a plane "blew up" due to the option package, the consumer would blame the package for the destruction. If I were a manufacturer, I would not want to open up that can of worms unless the monetary gain was significant. It's just easier to let the consumer hop up his plane in his own way and issue a warning about warranty voiding. A model that sells well as is, won't tempt a manufacturer to put further effort into it. A model that doesn't sell well isn't worth the time and effort to do more. They'll redesign it or just scrap it.

[Hippie 64]

Viper you are I think mostly referring to the guys who are building the balsa kits mainly . I too have done the same . EPO planes are already being built and offered with components in them so that doesn't matter to those types of builders . To build a plane with the bigger components which are mostly electronics may put it out of the reach for some customers price wise .

Some now offer hop up kits for some which includes a motor and prop or fan so I could see it working with other models but make it a more complete hop with matched components. I have a EDF that came with one fan but another is offered . When I installed it the ESC heated up because of a voltage increase . After conferring with MRC and others the answer was the fan change. This fan is on the spare parts page and comes from the MFGR . No one or nowhere does it say that it needs a bigger ESC . I am not an electrical engineer, there are more of us not knowing than those who do . So yes a pre chosen package of matched components may work .

[xviper]

Yes, I've seen those "upgrades" you speak of on some of the MRC model pages. Where a "high performance" fan/motor is offered, so is a bigger ESC if it's deemed necessary. It's up to the buyer to understand this. In these cases, the cell count doesn't change to get more performance. When you up the cell count, a lot of things need to be changed and for cost considerations and practical reasons, it's very difficult to offer "upgrade" choices. There's more risk involved and it's better left to the buyer to make those choices and accept those risks.
I wasn't really talking about balsa planes. I'm talking about foamies and how some flyers choose to "hop up" the performance by increasing cell count. It's a delicate proposition, especially if going more than 1 cell more.

[Hippie 64]

I give up . Was only a thought and your annoying me from everything I have ever read you have to right . I'm done

[xviper]

Um ................. OK. Just injecting some realism into the topic but I guess reality might not be to your liking. I'll leave this to the person who can give you what you want -- Alpha. I will no longer attempt to respond with truth and honestly to any of your posts from now on. In fact, I'll stay away from ALL of your posts. Maybe others will tell you what you want to hear, fact and honesty be damned.

[ryramZ]

Fellas. I get both sides of this. Both of you have great points. Here's my take. Some guys will not jump the price gap of going to 6s but still want those planes. Offering as a 4s plane with a manufacturer approved 6s upgrade available takes the guesswork out and gives confidence to the guy who is not doing amp readings but is happy to trust what the company offers as a suitable upgrade. An upgrade option whether it be to 4s or 6s will always be a drop in fit as far as bolt pattern and the esc question should have been properly answered when its offered by the company. Some of the planes we sell have been around awhile and have not benefited from the full scrutiny of the designers rigorous testing. With that said it's possible to have offered an upgrade without having made obvious the fact that likely your esc will need upgraded as well.
Upgrading the esc is a matter of fact in most cases when getting more speed or power out of anything. This seems to be common knowledge for those of us who already know, or learned the hardway. {smoke out}

Alpha,
I do like the idea of selling the same plane offered in both 6s or 4s. Just add the proper box to the order. Many times with small parts orders they are placed in the shipping box anyway. Adding another small box to the shipment or inside the shipment wouldnt be an uncommon task for our shipping dept. I would guess.