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**PappaBear** · Dec 13, 2016, 01:04 PM

Hello Fredbert,

Let me welcome you to our RC family.

If you have never flown an RC airplane before, a float plane is perhaps not the best one to start with. I see from you letter you have flown drones. I take it by that you mean quad copters and multi-rotor machines. Unfortunately there is little comparison between a fixed wing airplane and a rotor wing aircraft. Apart from the controls on the transmitter.

Ideally you need to start with a trainer. Just as it is with the real thing, you wouldn't go off and expect to fly an F-15 without proper flight training.! You will find several excellent trainers on the market. Please see the link below to a selection of trainers.

https://www.motionrc.com/collections...iner-airplanes

While it is possible to learn to fly on your own. I would recommend an instructor. Most RC clubs will have instructors on hand to teach beginners how to fly. I good instructor will be worth his weight in gold, because not only will he be able to teach you to fly, he will be able to tell you what you are doing wrong and why. Understanding why things are going wrong and what to do to prevent them from happening over again is very important. If you are constantly making the same mistake, you are not learning. You are perfecting your mistakes.

Please see the following link to the Academy of Model Aeronautics. (AMA). This organization is an excellent source of information, and you should be able to find a club in your vicinity you can join.

Academy of Model Aeronautics

http://www.modelaircraft.org/

The Academy of Model Aeronautics is a nonprofit community of enthusiasts who come together to celebrate model aviation.

You will also find a lot of help from others here on Hobby Squawk.

I would like to wish you every success and many hours of fun with your RC flying.

Martin.

**Alpha** · Dec 13, 2016, 05:23 PM

Welcome to Hobbysquawk, and the RC aircraft hobby itself! I would add on to Martin's comments and encourage you to consider investing in a proper RC flight simulator. You can learn to fly from the comfort of your home, rain or shine, night and day. Most importantly, the first time you press the Reset button after a crash, the simulator pays for itself. I used to tell my students if they can take off, circuit, and land without crashing in the first three minutes, I'll give them $20. In several years of offering that challenge, I never lost. The advantage of the simulator is it teaches you muscle memory and orientation skills in a safe, repeatable environment. Buying a plane and going out alone for a first flight, especially over water, rarely ends well in our experience from shepherding new pilots into this hobby over the years. Martin has done this what, fifty years my friend?

Conversely, using a flight simulator as a Tool and not a Toy can in my experience accelerate a student's learning, and accelerate his or her confidence and proficiency in operating a real RC plane. I would tell my students that if they could take off, circuit, loop, roll, stall/recover, touch and go, and land -- in the same place --10 times in a row... Then they're ready to jump into more advanced beginner aircraft or even intermediate level planes.

In this hobby, Safety Facilitates Fun. It may sound strange that two Motion RC managers are advising you to start small instead of to buy a seaplane and all the extra equipment to operate it, but this underscores our priorities: we want all new pilots to have fun, do it safely, and reduce to an absolute minimum the probability of a crash. I've seen too many smiles turn to frowns within 30 seconds of a very first flight. An ounce of preparation is worth a pound of cure. Or in this case, a pound of glue! We want you to be the most prepared you can be before you fly, because during a flight is not the time think "what do I do now?". The transition from multirotors to fixed wing aircraft can be an easy one, but I've seen it go the other way, too. The point is, a simulator will tell you quickly where you plot on the chart for fixed wing. Find a local hobby store and try out their simulator if they have Real Flight setup like most stores near me do. Borrow a friend's, etc, or again just buy that as your first purchase. I've been flying for decades and I still use a simulator at least five nights a week. We all do it.

Also, a tip, don't worry about crashing. We all do it!

Consider reading the articles we've assembled in our Beginner Guide on the Motion RC blog. That has lots of info for new pilots, who want to go the usual simulator route, or at least order recommendations on basic aircraft to get started. The RTF format is your friend --it will have everything in the bid to get started.

Have fun, find local resources and pilots, share and learn with us here. We're all your family now!

**Alpha** · Dec 13, 2016, 05:45 PM

Also, gyros are only helpful if/when they are setup correctly. It sounds like you know enough about the importance of calibration, coming from the multirotor world, so you have a leg up, there!

I wanted to expound on the Catalina specifically, as well. It's an excellent flying seaplane, and is one of our best sellers in that category. Its lower profile reduces the chance of tipping, compared to, say, a Beaver. But the Catalina's outer wing floats will catch and dig into the water if one's landing approach isn't just right. In many ways, water is less forgiving than land. On land, planes bounce and then stay there. On water, planes will dig in, and then flip over, sink, etc. It's easier to walk out to a crash site than it is to swim out to one! I know from personal experience!

That all being said, landing on water can be very fun. But this still brings me back to my original advice, which is to try a simulator first, if you cannot find an RC pilot to help you out first. On hand training is invaluable, but your rural area as you said might not have that in near supply, so the simulator is in my eyes the next best thing. Who knows, you might be landing on water on the simulator without bouncing after five minutes, and doing so consistently like an instant expert, in which case you'll be more confident in investing in the Catalina and knowing what you're getting into. But, if it turns out you're struggling on the simulator, and you're pressing that Reset button often, then you'll be glad you did get the simulator first, and can keep practicing until your operating and landing the aircraft consistently and with utmost confidence.

One of the best parts of this hobby is that we're all just young guys at heart having fun with airplanes. There's no ego or judgement; at least, this hobby is best when those things are left behind. Starting out the smart way is always the smart way. Building the best foundation of skills is the quickest path to enjoying those big planes you're dreaming of!

I hope some of this information is helpful to you. We're always excited when a new pilot joins the formation. :)

**Hippie 64** · Dec 14, 2016, 02:39 AM

Hey Fredbert !! First , Welcome to the Forum .

Everything that Alpha and Martin is true , please start with a Simulator if you can . I say this from experience , the closest field to me is over a hour away and its hard to find the time to get there . I fly at my local High School when I can . I learned the hard way and its tough and expensive . If there is any way get some instruction from an Instructor for hands on time . I have never seen a Pilot who would not help a fellow pilot because non of us want to see the outcome of a new Pilot crash . It is a hard thing to see the excitement crushed in 15 seconds ! Every one has been right where you are at and there are no bad questions ever.

Take your time and don't rush into buying and trying before your ready . There are many beautiful planes to fly but there are progression steps to take . Practice Practice Practice !!! With a Sim you learn from your mistakes without losing your plane . Each time you fly on it set a timer because what a few who get on a Sim fail to remember is that when you do put your plane in the air the battery or fuel will run out and down you come . You may practice on the Sim for 15 minutes without landing but you will NOT do it at the field . Lots of us still us the Sim after years of flying .

Sorry for rambling on but there is much to learn and it can be very costly . This a very fun and relaxing hobby but can get into many expensive repairs before you realize it .

Welcome again , Bryan

**bradl4648** · Dec 14, 2016, 10:49 AM

Hi Fredbert

Welcome to the RC hobby it is a fun hobby for sure. I will tell you RC simulators are not bad they give you the idea of how the controller works with the plane. But just keep in mind try doing this as real as possible because in the real world their is no reset button. I am going to tell you what cpt. Mike and pilot Ryan preaches and that is to start off on a micro plane preferably the new champ https://www.motionrc.com/collections...inner-rc-plane. This is due to it does not fly fast and can take a beating and come back for more. Of course nothing is break proof! But this has so many cool features to it it will take you from a newby to an avid pilot. I haveactually seen people start out with this plane and was able to go to a lowing plane and had great success. I hope this helps you.

**Grossman56** · Dec 14, 2016, 07:27 PM

The old crawl walk run scenario!
I agree with the guys that a sim will get you far into the realm but you are eventually (especially when the weather starts to turn for the better) going to want to try the 'real thing!'
From our experience (My wife and I) the Apprentice is a superior plane for your first flights. I joke that you can turn the plane and let it fly to the other end of the field, in the meantime you can catch up on your reading, have a smoke, cup of coffee and get a few phone calls in while it gets to the other end.
The point is that it gives you a TON of time to get comfortable with the concept of flight. The SAFE technology makes getting over the first flight jitters much easier as well, and the panic button is great for when all else fails!
That, believe it or not, will probably sum up your first season of flying, depending on how much flight time you can get in of course.
Then, and there isn't a person here who has one that will not agree with me, when you are comfortable in piloting (landing and taking off as well) with the Apprentice, its time to consider a Pandora.
This is an absolutely awesome intermediate trainer. This plane will pave the path for you towards the birds you ultimately want to fly. I can speak for them personally, so can Hippie, Lon and a bunch of us that have traveled down the exact same path you are about to travel.
I spent a good season on the Pandora and loved every moment, I still take one out every once in a while because they are the most honest airplanes I've flown so far (with the exception of the Flightline Bearcat, but that's not what you need at this point!)
Realize also, the huge benefit of joining the AMA, the insurance alone makes it worth while and most if not all clubs insist on membership.
Also, most clubs will have people there, more than willing to help you achieve your goal of flight, so take advantage of it if you can, don't forget the camaraderie of a good club as well.
And last but certainly not least, the guys and girls here at the Squawk are about the most enthusiastic bunch of people you'll ever want to meet. We're all here to offer help when needed so please don't hesitate to share your experiences and ask questions.

Welcome aboard, your about to drink the Koolaid f R/C flight that we are all addicted to.

Grossman56

**starcop** · Dec 14, 2016, 08:37 PM

I just had to say, I remember back when I was a Newbie. I'd try to play it off like, I know that"; oh sure the over head. I didn't really know my butt from a hole in the ground. It takes years of experience and, a good teacher to learn this hobby well. I always recommend to other who are getting into this fine sport. Let the guy who knows what he's talking about teach you. There's no shame in not knowing something, we all learn from each-other. In the long run, we can share the experience with our children. Enjoy, this is a life long hobby filled with new aircraft flying off the assembly lots. Cheers! Matt

**starcop** · Dec 15, 2016, 07:48 AM

Originally posted by Martin.MotionRC View Post

Hello Fredbert,

Let me welcome you to our RC family.

If you have never flown an RC airplane before, a float plane is perhaps not the best one to start with. I see from you letter you have flown drones. I take it by that you mean quad copters and multi-rotor machines. Unfortunately there is little comparison between a fixed wing airplane and a rotor wing aircraft. Apart from the controls on the transmitter.

Ideally you need to start with a trainer. Just as it is with the real thing, you wouldn't go off and expect to fly an F-15 without proper flight training.! You will find several excellent trainers on the market. Please see the link below to a selection of trainers.

https://www.motionrc.com/collections...iner-airplanes

While it is possible to learn to fly on your own. I would recommend an instructor. Most RC clubs will have instructors on hand to teach beginners how to fly. I good instructor will be worth his weight in gold, because not only will he be able to teach you to fly, he will be able to tell you what you are doing wrong and why. Understanding why things are going wrong and what to do to prevent them from happening over again is very important. If you are constantly making the same mistake, you are not learning. You are perfecting your mistakes.

Please see the following link to the Academy of Model Aeronautics. (AMA). This organization is an excellent source of information, and you should be able to find a club in your vicinity you can join.

Academy of Model Aeronautics

http://www.modelaircraft.org/

The Academy of Model Aeronautics is a nonprofit community of enthusiasts who come together to celebrate model aviation.

You will also find a lot of help from others here on Hobby Squawk.

I would like to wish you every success and many hours of fun with your RC flying.

Martin.

Chip off the old block! :)

**Grossman56** · Dec 15, 2016, 04:34 PM

I'm with you Matt, I've had people hesitate to give advice because its been badly received in the past. Heck I'll take all the advice I can get!! If it works for me, I'm grateful, if it doesn't feel quite right to me, I'm still grateful............

Grossman56

**Decreale** · Dec 16, 2016, 07:33 AM

It wasn't too long ago when I started out and made many mistakes. The first plane I got was the FMS Stuka bad idea. Crash and crash some more. The best thing you can do is get an inexpensive pusher glider fly that for a few months and move up from there. My next plane was the Pandora large wheels and it was 4 planes in one. Great plane to learn to land and you can convert it to a tail dragger like most WW2 planes. You will crash but patient take you time just fly the plane and forget about doing loops etc.. that will come later. Foam planes can be put back together. Glue

**Fredbert** · Dec 16, 2016, 01:39 PM

Thank you for the warm welcome, gentlemen, and for sharing your insight into the hobby that can be gained only through experience. The consensus is clearly that my experience with drones (yes, quadcopters) will not help me with airplanes nearly as much as I thought. But I would much rather find out now the easy way than later by falling flat on my face after trying to walk before crawling. My plan to get into the hobby has been altered to incorporate your advice: simulator, primary trainer, secondary trainer, the PBY I mentioned, all leading in order to my favorite large scale warbirds. Anyway, let's see how things go.

The idea of a an electronically stabilized and GPS guided trainer such as the Champ S+ is excellent. Given my drone experience, I was actually looking for exactly that! Those features can turn the frustration of learning a new skill into fun. Of course they should be used as training wheels, not crutches. I will be weaning myself off of them, just as I did with drones. Thank you for finding the Champ S+ for me, although I will likely go with the Sportsman S+ instead when the time comes because it looks less like a toy.

It turns out there are at least four (4!) AMA clubs within 20 miles of me in spite of the rural setting. Come to think of it, RC airplanes and open spaces go together! Anyway, all have an established flying site and seem to be active during the season with experienced members more than willing to show me the ropes. I will join one of them in the Spring for sure!

I was pleasantly surprised by the level of response to my introductory post. But no good deed goes unpunished! So please stay tuned for more questions as I embark on this journey, including many dumb ones I'm sure. Thanking all of you again... :)

Fred
(Yes, I am an engineer!)

PS: Anyone know of a fairly large scale foamy electric Cessna Skymaster (or O-2), Predator (to be called the Fredator) or B-29 to add to my hanger when the time comes? Or how about a B-36!? :p

**Alpha** · Dec 16, 2016, 01:59 PM

"Fredator", that's an excellent name. I hereby knight thee Sir Fredator. :D Your attitude is spot on, and I know it will serve you well as you expand into the fixed wing side of RC flight.

The Eflite Apprentice is hard to beat as a stabilized trainer platform, at a good price. If you want bigger and semi-scale, the Carbon Z Cub can't be beat, but it's pricey. It's not a trainer but it flies like a Cub, so... it can be flown like a trainer. The smaller Eflite Cubs with AS3X also make excellent trainers, that will teach you more than they will fight you. My one reservation about the Sportsman S+, however, is that I didn't have good experiences with it on unpaved surfaces. The tricycle gear encased in plastic wheel pants really limit you to hard surfaces. It sounds like you have four clubs in your area though, so maybe that won't be an issue. But overall, I tend to prefer trainers with large uncovered wheels and a high wing Cub-ish layout.

There aren't foam versions of any of those three birds on your list. There is a scratchbuilt foamie B-36... built by... gosh I forget. Xplaneguy or one of the Arizona Electric Festival guys can tell you. I think it was Greenseaships?

Get out to your local clubs and make friends and you'll be flying in no time. Four AMA fields inside of 20 miles sounds like heaven to me.

Welcome to another engineer!

**MR. B** · Dec 19, 2016, 07:51 AM

Fred, I"m new to this site, been flying a couple years. I have an apprentice and love it ! very good airplane and I love the "safe" system. if I want to just go relax and go do slow lazy 8 patterns (or breezy,bumpy day?) that's the plane i take. in safe mode line it up, add power, keep it on the "runway" and off it fly's, wings level and climbing. sit in lawn chair in the shade (i'm in AZ desert !) reduce throttle to level flight and start "8's", "8's" force you to learn to turn both directions. weird story, I once met a man who couldn't turn right, he always flew left hand pasterns and could land that way, if wind changed and required a right had pattern he's call out to one of his friends to pass the tx to so they could land his plane for him ! true story !
If i want to get frisky with it, switch to advanced mode, keep it two mistakes high and it will do loops, rolls, inverted flight and even knife edges if you keep the speed up ! and you've still got the "panic" button just in case . with my DX6 I've trained myself to hold it so my left hand middle is always resting on "the button". every once in awhile up high Ill get it all outta shape and use the button for recovery just to check it is still working and gain confidence in the system. the slower the airspeed the longer the "panic"recovery takes.
I also have a multiplex funcub that I really like too but it does not have any stabilizer or "panic" button. It doesn't like paved surfaces. its giant foam wheels are designed for "off-road" use. I built it with the optional flaps and factory tow hook installed and i'm practicing towing streamers and parachute men and releasing in flight. I'd someday like to tow up gliders ?
couple closing thoughts my first instructor said;
"the only plane that's not going to crash is the one that never gets flown !"
after all checked and ready to go but i'd be all nervous he'd remind me, , ,"It's a model plane, fly the damn plane, its not like ur in it !"

MR. B

**MR. B** · Dec 19, 2016, 07:54 AM

that second sentence i should have said "in beginner mode"

**Grossman56** · Dec 19, 2016, 04:28 PM

Hey Mister B welcome to the Squawk if anyone hasn't already said it.
The wife has an Apprentice and it was probably the only plane that could have got her to try flying. We both were lucky enough to go to US First R/C Flight school with Dave Scott and really got the hang of it from him.
Late this season I got here buddy boxing on a Pandora and she did well. Having flown both the Apprentice and the Pandora, I personally found the Pandora easier to fly, of course, I've been flying mine for a couple of years now and I have an A3 Gyro in it as well.
But, no doubt the Apprentice is a major part of restoring the R/C Flying Community and is an awesome first plane.

Grossman56

**Fredbert** · Dec 19, 2016, 10:58 PM

I'm way ahead of you, Alpha! Or maybe you're about to lap me. From what I read on the MotionRC site, the Sportsman S+ comes with extra landing gear meant for grass (larger diameter wheels without fairings). I will use those for the grass strips that the clubs around here have. But I still want to be able to fly at my home which is basically in the middle of a 30 acre hay field. My thought there is to remove the gear completely, adjust the CG if necessary, hand launch and belly land in the foot tall hay. What do you think?

Everyone's enthusiasm here is contagious. Thank you all again! I can't wait for Spring to get here... :cool:

Sir Fredator ;)

**OV10** · Dec 20, 2016, 12:05 AM

FB,
With at least 4 club fields at your disposal why would you want to resort to playing "ditch the b...." in the tall hay/grass. With your airframe growth aspirations that you named, those along with earlier arrivals into your warbird arena are going to require a disciplined training program where as you will need to takeoff from terra-firma and then have a controlled crash(landing) on the same runway confines. You flippin one into the air and letting it come to rest where ever it pleases isn't going to develop the disciplines you will need for your growth into what you want from this sport. I'm the lead flight instructor at our club and getting guys to consistently find the centerline and touch down in close proximity of the spot they desired is a task that requires a dedicated practice effort in order to advance the skill set. The other benefit of going to a club field is that you get off the farm and get to mingle with other pilots. Give it a thought and keep your wheels under ya. ;)
Best regards,

**Teeks** · Dec 20, 2016, 07:46 AM

Welcome! Always exciting to see new people come to the hobby. I think you'll find a great source of knowledge and community here at HobbySquawk!

**StormyDog1962** · Dec 20, 2016, 09:26 AM

Definitely check out the Clubs as most will have a Trainer Program like OV10 recommends. Hey that rhymes (OV10 Recommends) Aw Dang It, now it's stuck in my head!

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