Landings

[Missed approach]

Hi guys - problem - I've been RC flying for around 10 years (Always foamies - EDF's - War birds - High wing ETC) and even though Im aware of the need to "fly" the plane in on final - I can't seem to avoid the urge to come in dead stick on landing - I come in a little hot on final and shut it down just prior to entry - wait to settle down - then flare in - any suggestions on how to overcome this potentially fatal issue?

[xviper]

I don't think this is potentially fatal for all planes. I find that EDFs tend to need some power all the way to touch down, however even here, there are exceptions. I have a twin 70mm SebArt Mig 29 where some of my best landings are when I shut down the motors when it's still at altitude and just glide it around till it's the right height to come in for final and crank it to line up with the landing area and continue to glide it down. I also find that on most prop planes, keeping a little throttle on all the way down to touch down is a must, while some can glide in on final with no power. Each plane has its own characteristics. You just have to try them all.
If you find it hard to NOT dead stick it, plan a very long, straight approach. This will help you keep up the power just enough to maintain height till it's over the runway. It's much harder to dead stick it if you have a really long approach. You'll hit the ground short if you don't give it enough. A longer approach will also give you more time and distance to regulate the height above ground and help to reduce the need to suddenly drop the plane at the last moment to land. This should also reduce the approach speed as it's not diving to land. Know where the plane's stall speed is and learn to fly it just above that speed in low, level fly by's. Always power up before trying to climb and turn.

[WintrSol]

To practice power-on landings, fly at the lowest throttle setting than keeps the model flying level, while somewhat nose up for trikes, maybe very slightly nose down for TDs, then reduce the throttle until you see the model sinking at your preferred rate. Then, after turning on final, reduce the throttle to about that position, and give it a go. This sounds easy enough, and I've said it to myself many times, but I'm still trying to resist cutting the throttle too soon, so good luck.

[OV10]

Totally concur with xviper and Wintr. I'll just throw one more pointer out and that is if you know that your coming in hot, just waive off and go around for another approach.
This will put you into the practice-practice routine versus settling for the whatever you get results.
Also if you've got this ongoing issue to overcome, ensure that your flight times are not pushing the last seconds whereas you have nothing left in the tank for that go around. :Scared:

[Grossman56]

At Nefi, Charlie, Mike and Ryan all straightened me out on that. Use your throttle to establish and maintain descent rate while keeping the fuselage level. Works like a charm, 90% of my landings are right on the money,the other 10% are still very acceptable. Usually the problem occurs with a narrow landing geared plane like the Spitfire.

Grossman56

[OV10]

Ohhhhh..........totally forgot to welcome you to the Squawk "Missed Approach". I'm sure you'll enjoy the comradery that is here and the wealth of info that abounds from its members.
Best regards,

[Missed approach]

Thank you OV10-Grossman-Wintrsoland and xviper2 that was actually very helpful to read your advice! I will take your advice to the field - wish me luck and thanks again!

[xviper]

Thank you OV10-Grossman-Wintrsoland and xviper2 that was actually very helpful to read your advice! I will take your advice to the field - wish me luck and thanks again!

Good luck. Take it in stages. Start off at higher altitude and pretend the ground is higher than it actually is.

[Aros]

Great advice gents. I am well known by my flying buddy for being "Mr. Dead Stick". A terrible habit I too have had a hard time breaking myself of. As xviper2 says, some planes are much more forgiving (and some quite well actually) gliding in dead stick on the approach while others MUST be flown to the ground under power, no exceptions. Like advised, you simply need to take it model-by-model to see which category it falls into. Always investigate a few mistakes high.

For instance, I have had numerous successful dead stick approaches and landings with my Freewing 90mm F/A-18E Hornet. Nice glide properties, doesn't seem to mind a dead stick landing at all...In fact some of my best greasers came with that jet dead stick (assuming good pitch control/management was applied). So applying that same philosophy to the Freewing 90mm F-16? Yeah, not so much. My first few landings looked more like crashes until I figured out she demands to be flown in under power with a higher AOA. Once I figured out her tendencies landings became much easier.

I've even had moments of dead sticking my HSD F-16 which is a much larger and heavier EDF than the FW 90mm's...Not advisable AT ALL but old habits indeed die hard. Granted my approach was high and hot so I could afford to throttle chop for a few seconds before reengaging the power but the pucker factor increases exponentially!

Now days I am mindful of always trying to make sure I am coming in under power no matter the model. It's just good practice and I've yet to meet a powered warbird or jet that doesn't prefer a power on landing.

[Grossman56]

I hear you, I almost always dead stick the Pandora in because it'll glide forever, same with the Apprentice. The warbirds, well, if you're into repair work..........
Think of the throttle as a vertical control device, like on a helicopter. The more the throttle, the more it climbs. If you trim an aircraft to fly level at half throttle, then, if you increase throttle, it will climb without any nose elevator and descend with less than half. Control the rate of descent with throttle while maintaining a level fuselage. She will come down on her mains in that altitude or, if you give it a slight touch of nose up elevator just before touch down, she'll do a three pointer. The trick there is not to have too much forward momentum otherwise you'll bounce back up and too slow with too much height will stall the plane out, so getting it just right is the challenge. Easier to get a two pointer down first, then work on three if you want.

Grossman56

[TiredIronGRB]

I hear you, I almost always dead stick the Pandora in because it'll glide forever, same with the Apprentice. The warbirds, well, if you're into repair work..........
Think of the throttle as a vertical control device, like on a helicopter. The more the throttle, the more it climbs. If you trim an aircraft to fly level at half throttle, then, if you increase throttle, it will climb with nose elevator and descend with less than half. Control the rate of descent with throttle while maintaining a level fuselage. She will come down on her mains in that altitude or, if you give it a slight touch of nose up elevator just before touch down, she'll do a three pointer. The trick there is not to have too much forward momentum otherwise you'll bounce back up and too slow with too much height will stall the plane out, so getting it just right is the challenge. Easier to get a two pointer down first, then work on three if you want.

Grossman56

Good points G-man.

[F106DeltaDart]

Well said Gman. Only thing I would add is that for planes with small aspect ratios and high sweep, mostly edf jets, you have to hold a higher angle of attack for landings. The same rules still apply, its just coming down a lot faster ;).

[Grossman56]

Good point DD, I haven't flown EDF's yet, the next step as I drool over the soon to arrive A-10

Grossman56

[Aros]

Once you go jet, it will all be over I bet. LOL

[Missed approach]

Very helpful Gents - really appreciate the solid advice and discussion - lots of insight - feel very lucky to be here

[weedsnager]

Great how to landing video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IS2asjjrFak&sns=em

[Aros]

Very helpful Gents - really appreciate the solid advice and discussion - lots of insight - feel very lucky to be here

Welcome Missed approach! We have a great, respectful, knowledgeable community that continues to grow by the day. We're happy to have you here!

[WintrSol]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the effect of center of gravity. If the model is trimmed for level flight, and the CG is set forward of the 'ideal' spot, the nose will drop when you reduce speed, the farther forward CG is, the more the nose will drop. This will, of course, cause the speed to increase slightly. I know some pilots that prefer a strong forward CG, so the model will naturally enter a steady downward glide if/when a dead-stick occurs; they are mostly 'wet' model pilots. If the CG is at the critical point, it will tend to stay level, and drift down like a kite, perhaps entering a stall; if it is behind the critical point, the tail will drop first, and very likely cause a stall.,

[Prowler901]

Great how to landing video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IS2asjjrFak&sns=em

Some very good information in this video.

[Aros]

Agreed on the video. I wrote an article not too long ago in our Knowledge Blog about how altitude is adjusted by throttle, not elevator. Power for altitude and speed, pitch for attitude/AOA. I used to try to land exactly how that gentleman describes (aileron/elevator, time your flare and hope for the best, lol)...

https://www.motionrc.com/blogs/motion-rc-blog/controlling-altitude-it-may-not-be-what-you-think