EDF options freewing su35

[Colorc]

I have been admiring the freewing su 35 for a couple of years and it was my motivation to learn edf flight. When i started to train on edf planes 2years ago with a phase 3 f16, i carefully picked out the hop up fan unit when i was comfortable flying the phase3 stock so it would also work with the su35 on 6s. Right now i have a het 2w27 connected to a changesun 12 blade v2 to get me gobs of thrust on 4s and 52 amps. Now that i am comfortable with the speed of a edf, the su 35 is on my list. My original fan choice is the the wemotec evo 70mm pair. Then I saw that freewings upgrade fans are counter rotating and now wonder if there is a significant p factor with dual edfs. I do notice that my f16 when climbing out of a slow high alpha wants to rotate and yaw to the right until it gets enough air over the wings and tail. Unfortunately, wemotec does not have counter rotating fans. Has anyone done the non counter rotating fans on the su? Do you have any issues with it wanting to yaw while under power and in high alpha or other slow 3d manuvers?

[Konrad]

RE: EDF options freewing su35

I have been admiring the freewing su 35 for a couple of years and it was my motivation to learn edf flight. When i started to train on edf planes 2years ago with a phase 3 f16, i carefully picked out the hop up fan unit when i was comfortable flying the phase3 stock so it would also work with the su35 on 6s. Right now i have a het 2w27 connected to a changesun 12 blade v2 to get me gobs of thrust on 4s and 52 amps. Now that i am comfortable with the speed of a edf, the su 35 is on my list. My original fan choice is the the wemotec evo 70mm pair. Then I saw that freewings upgrade fans are counter rotating and now wonder if there is a significant p factor with dual edfs. I do notice that my f16 when climbing out of a slow high alpha wants to rotate and yaw to the right until it gets enough air over the wings and tail. Unfortunately, wemotec does not have counter rotating fans. Has anyone done the non counter rotating fans on the su? Do you have any issues with it wanting to yaw while under power and in high alpha or other slow 3d manuvers?

[Konrad]

RE: EDF options freewing su35

Train on an EDF? Your are over thinking the issue. I have flown the Su 35 on CW rotating fans (both in fact Freewings, It was what I had on hand after a crash). You might see a slight roll (not yaw) on punch out from a post stall maneuver, but you would have to be very attuned to the ship to notice it. Thrust vectoring can handle any post stall issue you might have.

The Su 35 is not fast but does have a bit higher wing loading than what you are use to with the Phase 3 models. What make an EDF different from an prop ship is the landing as the is no prop wash over the tails to help with the go around.

The Wemotec Evo with 2W-27 2500Kv will give you all you would ever want. Just make sure you have good "C" rated cells.

One issue I do have with the Su 35 is that there is no air flow over the ESCs. You should pull off the center keel cover and push some cooling holes (air flow) into the inlet ducts. This area is double walled so you need to push through 2 walls. I do this to both inlet ducts. Then glue back the cover. The low pressure in the inlets will draw air over the ESCs making the ESCs inlets functional.

I also have the Freewing Me 262. I think the Me 262 is actually the better flying model. As you sound like you are new (not that 2 years makes you new) to flying high performance models You might want to think about getting a model that still flies on the wings rather than a lifting body type model like the Su 35. I'm sure you will be happy with the Su-35, I just think you might be happier with the Me 262.

[Colorc]

RE: EDF options freewing su35

Train on an EDF? Your are over thinking the issue. I have flown the Su 35 on CW rotating fans (both in fact Freewings, It was what I had on hand after a crash). You might see a slight roll (not yaw) on punch out from a post stall maneuver, but you would have to be very attuned to the ship to notice it.  Thrust vectoring can handle any post stall issue you might have.

The Su 35 is not fast but does have a bit higher wing loading than what you are use to with the Phase 3 models. What make an EDF different from an prop ship is the landing as the is no prop wash over the tails to help with the go around.

The Wemotec Evo with 2W-27 2500Kv will give you all you would ever want. Just make sure you have good "C" rated cells.  

One issue I do have with the Su 35 is that there is no air flow over the ESCs. You should pull off the center keel cover and push some cooling holes (air flow) into the inlet ducts. This area is double walled so you need to push through 2 walls. I do this to both inlet ducts. Then glue back the cover. The low pressure in the inlets will draw air over the ESCs making the ESCs inlets functional.

I also have the Freewing Me 262. I think the Me 262 is actually the better flying model. As you sound like you are new (not that 2 years makes you new) to flying high performance models You might want to think about getting a model that still flies on the wings rather than a lifting body type model like the Su 35. I'm sure you will be happy with the Su-35, I just think you might be happier with the Me 262.

Thanks for the advice and the tip on the escs. I will look into the me262.

[Pheonix]

RE: EDF options freewing su35

Train on an EDF? Your are over thinking the issue. I have flown the Su 35 on CW rotating fans (both in fact Freewings, It was what I had on hand after a crash). You might see a slight roll (not yaw) on punch out from a post stall maneuver, but you would have to be very attuned to the ship to notice it.  Thrust vectoring can handle any post stall issue you might have.

The Su 35 is not fast but does have a bit higher wing loading than what you are use to with the Phase 3 models. What make an EDF different from an prop ship is the landing as the is no prop wash over the tails to help with the go around.

The Wemotec Evo with 2W-27 2500Kv will give you all you would ever want. Just make sure you have good "C" rated cells.  

One issue I do have with the Su 35 is that there is no air flow over the ESCs. You should pull off the center keel cover and push some cooling holes (air flow) into the inlet ducts. This area is double walled so you need to push through 2 walls. I do this to both inlet ducts. Then glue back the cover. The low pressure in the inlets will draw air over the ESCs making the ESCs inlets functional.

I also have the Freewing Me 262. I think the Me 262 is actually the better flying model. As you sound like you are new (not that 2 years makes you new) to flying high performance models You might want to think about getting a model that still flies on the wings rather than a lifting body type model like the Su 35. I'm sure you will be happy with the Su-35, I just think you might be happier with the Me 262.

Thanks for the advice and the tip on the escs. I will look into the me262.

I have the ME 262 as well and it is one of my favorites to fly.  I also fly the SU 35 but prefer the 262 over the SU 35. 

[Colorc]

RE: EDF options freewing su35

Is the 262 more fun to fly or is it easier to fly?

[Pheonix]

RE: EDF options freewing su35

I think both. I had not flown it for a while and took it out the other day and what a fun day with this plane. It is easy to take off and land. The power system is just right in this one. It has no bad tendencies. Just use half flaps on take of and she tracks easily and up with full power. Use full flaps on landing and she will roll to a genital stop. This is really a good flying jet. I thought about upgrading the power plant and actually purchases all the parts. I finally concluded that this was not necessary because it was just too much fun as is. Freewing really makes quality products. I pre-ordered the T45 and cannot wait for this one.

[Konrad]

RE: EDF options freewing su35

I want to be clear on this, both the Me 262 and Su35 are fine flying, even easy flying models. Not trainer easy but easy and honest fliers.

The ME 262 is more efficient meaning that she takes less power for any given speed. This is because of the longer wings.I fly most of the time at 75% or less throttle. With the Su 35 I fly mostly above 75% throttle. This translates in about 2 more minutes of flying time for the ME 262 on 6000 mAh cells.

The ME 262 keeps her speed up through the turns. The Su 35 skids a lot at the end of the turn. on landing the Me 262 does an normal rotation flair prior to touch down. The Su 35 is flow with the nose high and one adjusts the sink rate with the throttles.

So for "normal" flying I like the Me 2626. But the Su 35 has thrust vectoring that gives her a whole new dimension in flying. But you need a much more powerful radio (mixing) to use this great performance feature to the fullest. I honestly like the post stall aspects of the Su 35. as t is just so different from what we had just a few years ago.

Another big factor is that the Su35 is much much more delicate in that she is molded out of EPS foam. This was done to try to keep some of the weight off, as the stubby wings need all the help they can get. The Me 262 is molded from EPO foam and is much more durable. Both to landing incidences and hanger rash.

Get both models, but get the Me 262 first.

[Pheonix]

RE: EDF options freewing su35

Your argument is quite clear! Thank you for the education on both planes. If one really wants a good high speed training jet, the Taft Hobby Viper is the way to go. I have flown this one for a long time and have two now.

[Konrad]

RE: EDF options freewing su35

Pheonix, I thought that you also had both planes. I assume you are agreeing with my assessment. My comments were aimed at Colorc.

I for one never understood the need for a high speed trainer. I find that the issue isn't speed but rather wing loading. With a high wing loading one needs to be aware of the G's one is pulling in a turn. And the real issue is the landing. One needs to make smooth purposeful inputs, and keep the speed up until one is ready to flair. As one lands more by manipulation the throttles with the Su35 this is what makes her a bit "unusual" to the sport of beginner pilot. Again the issue issn't speed if you have the space but rather the landing when dealing with high speed, high wing loaded models.

All the best,
Konrad

[Pheonix]

RE: EDF options freewing su35

Yes, I have and was one of the first to both both from Motion. Your arguments were cogent.

[Colorc]

RE: EDF options freewing su35

Man, now i do want both. Idk, but i am kinda used to landing with throttle modulation. Probably not to the extent the su35 requires. My sbach 342 is like that. The nice easy landings are done with the throttle at 1/3 about 100 feet out, set up your elevator input to slightly nose up and gradually reduce throttle until it floats on in. Granted the su is faster. I keep leaning towards the su though. Mostly for the challenge of flying it.

[Konrad]

RE: EDF options freewing su35

To get the full benefit from the Su 35 you need a higher end radio. I'm using the Taranis Plus. But most higher end 8 channel radios should work. If you have a 7ch or lesser computer radio go with the ME 262. 


The Su 35 will not float in. She doesn't drop like a brick, but nor does she float.


The Me 262 will give you a challenge. Under wing engine pods cause pitch up when full power is applied at low speed. Just what you don't want as adding power can induce a stall (odd at first). Those wing tip are great for efficiency but can stall a lot harder than you might first think.

All the best,
Konrad

[Alpha]

RE: EDF options freewing su35

Good insights, Konrad.

I would emphasize that, officially, both these models are considered intermediate+ aircraft. The Su-35's thrust vectoring can give many pilots quite a hassle if they're not prepared for programming radio mixes, etc. We filmed a setup video to help prepare pilots for the task ahead.

http://www.motionrc.com/knowledgebase#!articles/305-1534-how-t-setup-vectored-thrust-on-the-freewing-su35-twin-70mm-jet

The ME-262 requires a good understanding of energy management and proper control in the landing pattern. Both of these aircraft can be flown mildly, but an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure when it comes to avoiding dangerous situations. The same could be said of any of the larger jets we sell. They are, as we call them, "honest" flyers: They'll go where you point them to go, for better or worse.

We have smaller, lighter, less complex, less costly jets available if a pilot is wanting to develop his or her skills without the investment of a ~$400 jet and a ~$100 battery in the case of the SU-35 or ME-262. Typically if someone calls in to ask our team to recommend a first EDF, we recommend one of the 64mm or 70mm jets. The 64mm F/A-18 4s is a favorite of mine for simple/cheap/effective, as is the RocHobby 64mm F-16 3s. For cost conscious jets that also offer advanced features like retracts and flaps to practice with in the landing pattern, the Freewing 70mm Rebel V2 is popular. The Freewing 70mm F-16 4s is fun to practice thrust vectoring maneuvers with, although it doesn't have retract. The Freewing 70mm F-35 does have both thrust vectoring and retracts.

It goes without saying that the smaller 64/70mm jets are more easily transportable than the large SU-35 and ME-262, both of which will require a large truck or van to fit in one piece. The ME-262's wing does not remove very easily due to all the wiring, so take that into consideration as well, whether you get it now or later.

[Pheonix]

RE: EDF options freewing su35

Good insights, Konrad.

I would emphasize that, officially, both these models are considered intermediate+ aircraft. The Su-35's thrust vectoring can give many pilots quite a hassle if they're not prepared for programming radio mixes, etc. We filmed a setup video to help prepare pilots for the task ahead.

http://www.motionrc.com/knowledgebase#!articles/305-1534-how-t-setup-vectored-thrust-on-the-freewing-su35-twin-70mm-jet

The ME-262 requires a good understanding of energy management and proper control in the landing pattern. Both of these aircraft can be flown mildly, but an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure when it comes to avoiding dangerous situations. The same could be said of any of the larger jets we sell. They are, as we call them, "honest" flyers: They'll go where you point them to go, for better or worse.

We have smaller, lighter, less complex, less costly jets available if a pilot is wanting to develop his or her skills without the investment of a ~$400 jet and a ~$100 battery in the case of the SU-35 or ME-262. Typically if someone calls in to ask our team to recommend a first EDF, we recommend one of the 64mm or 70mm jets. The 64mm F/A-18 4s is a favorite of mine for simple/cheap/effective, as is the RocHobby 64mm F-16 3s. For cost conscious jets that also offer advanced features like retracts and flaps to practice with in the landing pattern, the Freewing 70mm Rebel V2 is popular. The Freewing 70mm F-16 4s is fun to practice thrust vectoring maneuvers with, although it doesn't have retract. The Freewing 70mm F-35 does have both thrust vectoring and retracts.

It goes without saying that the smaller 64/70mm jets are more easily transportable than the large SU-35 and ME-262, both of which will require a large truck or van to fit in one piece. The ME-262's wing does not remove very easily due to all the wiring, so take that into consideration as well, whether you get it now or later.

Thanks Alpha.  We appreciate this type if education on your products.  I think I have most of the large jet you offer.  For some reason, I like the ME262 as a first generation jet.  The F18 flies very well also.  The EA6B is a joy to fly.  In other words, I like them all and am waiting for the T45!  I think I will try some of the 64mm other than the A1 I have.  Perhaps the F16 70mm 4S.  Thanks again.

[Konrad]

RE: EDF options freewing su35

Colorc, correct me if I'm wrong but you are not new to RC. So the "intermediate+" classification is well with in your skill sets?

I for one don't understand the EDF trainer concept. If the pilot can tell left from right and can handle a high wing loading then he is an intermediate pilot. No need to have a guy start with an EDF glider!

I have yet to find a foam EDF that is difficult to "fly". Some are a bear to hand launch, but once flying all that MotionRC sells are fine flying ships.

For my more "advanced" planes I love these. I have a set in my Me 262.
http://www.electrodynam.com/store/102.shtml

[Pheonix]

RE: EDF options freewing su35

These look great Konard.  Thanks for the link.  I am ordering three sets of these immediately!  How many servos did you need for theME262?  Thanks.

[Konrad]

RE: EDF options freewing su35

Don't recall. But I think I used 2 for the ailerons (the Me 262 responds well to differential ailerons) one for the flaps and one for the retracts and one for the ESCs. So if my math is correct that is five. This leaves me with only having to fish the power leads to the nose to the battery. Actually that is easy. The added servo wire length aids in the field assembly.

I did think about mounting the RX to the wing and using only 3 servo connectors (elevator, rudder Y'd to steering, and nose retract).
[hr]
Not that anybody cares, but here are some of my first impression of the Me 262
http://rctruth.com/index.php?topic=1875.0

And of the 80mm Mirage 2000 and F-5. If one likes the looks I think these are a bit more practical (just a little) as they give us more run time and are great fliers in a little smaller package.
http://rctruth.com/index.php?topic=2317.0

[Pheonix]

RE: EDF options freewing su35

Don't recall. But I think I used 2 for the ailerons (the Me 262 responds well to differential ailerons) one for the flaps and one for the retracts and one for the ESCs. So if my math is correct that is five. This leaves me with only having to fish the power leads to the nose to the battery. Actually that is easy. The added servo wire length aids in the field assembly.

I did think about mounting the RX to the wing and using only 3 servo connectors (elevator, rudder Y'd to steering, and nose retract).

[hr]
Not that anybody cares, but here are some of my first impression of the Me 262
http://rctruth.com/index.php?topic=1875.0

And of the 80mm Mirage 2000 and F-5. If one likes the looks I think these are a bit more practical (just a little) as they give us more run time and are great fliers in a little smaller package.
http://rctruth.com/index.php?topic=2317.0

Thanks Konard it is good to have you on the chat with your knowledge of aerodynamic and other issues.  Many thanks again for your useful posts.  I agree about the F-5 as I like this one as well.  I have no more room for plane now after my F-45 arrives.  There is already a threat to throw me and my panes out of the house :).

[Colorc]

RE: EDF options freewing su35

You are right. I have been flying edf for a little while. Started with a 70mm edf phase3 f16. It wasnt so much training how to fly a edf, more like getting used to the increased speed and the power delivery is a little different. im able to do mild 3d with helis, so i dont think the larger intermediate plans are a problem. I am pretty much done crashing due to pilot error, so im not worried about trashing the expensive planes.