Freewing Stinger Questions

[plhetter]

We have a Freewing Stinger and I have some questions. This bird has been a challenge to say the least. My adult son is on his second fuse and is frustrated but wants to make it work.
Where is the CG?
Is a 3s or a 4s better for it?
He has a few successful flights but more meetings with the ground.
When it flies well it fly great. When it does not, it very difficult to control.
Almost out of the box the wing screws pulled the wooden mount out and they needed re-glued
Any suggestions about set up or mods to improve flight would be appreciated.
Thanks

[xviper]

Which one are you talking about? There is a Freewing 64mm Stinger (which is a 3s) and there's a Freewing 64mm High Performance 4s Stinger. The CG for both is written in the manual as 60 to 70mm. Start with an average of 65mm and go from there. Balance upside down since it's a low wing plane.
I've helped a friend get his 3s Stinger launched (no wheels) and it is very underpowered. Taking off from grass is nearly impossible, from pavement, is possible but difficult. The wheels add unwanted weight and doesn't help at all. The 3s version must be thrown hard at full throttle and with some UP elevator. I think it only ever flew twice and both times, I threw it from the top of a 10' hill, into the wind and even then, it barely had enough power to NOT hit the ground below.
You can't just put in a 4s battery into the 3s version or you'll burn out the ESC or motor or both. The 4s version is much better to launch. Again, forget the wheels. It too, needs a firm throw, with some UP elevator and full throttle. (Why do you think they brought out the "high perf." version?)
The hardest part of this plane is getting it into the air and flying properly. Until it reaches it's "flying speed", it's a handful. But once it's flying, it can be pretty quick, so you need to lower the rates and increase the expo. Flying it slow can only be done when it's going in a straight line, up high. Slow speed turns will usually end up in the dirt.
As for stuff coming apart or coming loose, these sorts of things must be checked and re-enforced out of the box and done again after any crash. Being a relatively cheap plane, it has been popular as a "beginner" plane but that's where it all goes wrong. It's a poor example of a beginner plane due to the things I mentioned.

[plhetter]

Thanks xviper!
ours is not the performance model. I am happy to see that we were not the only ones who had issues.You are correct. The few times it reached "flying speed" ,it was good. Do you have any suggestions for this bird?Its been since last year since we had it out. I think we upgraded the esc and went as far as getting the 12 blade fan too. I would entertain suggestions.Thanks

[xviper]

Well, if you got the ESC and fan/motor from the 4s version, then by all means, run it on 4 cells. Max out the throttle and give it a good toss with some UP elevator. It should take off well and get up to speed adequately. Forget the wheels and just belly land it. Put clear Gorilla tape on the bottom surface that would touch the ground.

[plhetter]

Here is the Finwing 40 amp esc currently in the Stinger. The label says it is 2-3s. Do you have information, the internet has little information. I have a Finwing 60 amp 2-6S for a balsa biplane I am restoring. Perhaps this could work? Do you imagine the EDF motor will survive the 12 blade? Opinions? Thanks in advance.

[xviper]

That won't work for 4s. The 60A one will. However, the motor for the 12 blade is Brushless 2836-3300Kv. The stock 3s motor (Brushless 2627-4300Kv) won't survive 4s (at least not for long) and was meant for 5-blade fan.

[plhetter]

You validated what I believed. I will look to replace the whole edf and a new esc. Thanks for your help.

[Hoomi]

While I've only flown my Stinger once, I had no problem with a rolling take-off on the landing gear, using the recommended 3S 1600 battery, and that with the added weight of a gyro. My only issue with that flight was that I had the gyro gain too high, and it oscillated through the whole abbreviated flight. The 5-blade EDF seemed to have enough power, though.

I wonder, though, if it would be pretty close to a toss-up on the cost of just ordering the 4S High Performance Stinger, as opposed to buying the 4S EDF and ESC?

[plhetter]

Thanks Hoomi
This has me puzzled. With your success 3s 1600 I am questioning my set up. Perhaps I need to calibrate the throttle? What is the c rating on your battery?

[plhetter]

Additionally, I already have both. Perhaps a little experimentation might be in order.

[Hoomi]

Thanks Hoomi
This has me puzzled. With your success 3s 1600 I am questioning my set up. Perhaps I need to calibrate the throttle? What is the c rating on your battery?

It's the Admiral 3S 1600mAh 30C.

[plhetter]

Well, I have a couple of comparable batteries. The weather in Central Ohio might be favorable tonight to try again. Thanks for you input.

[Tom]

I've flown both the 3S and 4S version extensively. This is one of my favorite small "backyard" jets. I don't have gear on mine either. I hand toss. First, I'm going to assume your son has good experience on low wing prop planes before he got into jets. If not, any jet will be very difficult to fly. Assuming proper experience, either of these are very easy jets to fly with the proper setup but I agree the 4S is a bit easier to hand toss vs the 3S because of the extra power. That said, the 3S is a very simple jet to hand toss but you do need to be at full throttle with some up elevator. You do need to give it a toss. The overwhelming majority of jets will not simply take off out of your hand. Unlike prop planes, a jet does not have the air flow generated by the prop flowing over the control surfaces so any jet has no control until you gain speed. This means you need a good CG and a good level toss so the jet can stay horizontal while you have little control as it gains speed. If the plane is nose heavy, it will make hand launch much more difficult as it will be very difficult to keep the nose up. Too tail heavy and you risk a stall. I can't emphasize how import this is with these small hand toss jets. Don't toss it up on too steep on an angle either as this can cause a stall without enough speed. I toss it more out than up - maybe 10 to 15 degrees above horizontal. It sounds like you upgraded the ESC but this alone will not provide more power. The ESC will provide the power demanded by the motor/EDF combination you have. If you upgrade the ESC without changing the motor, the larger ESC will simply provide the same level of power as the smaller ESC. You mentioned upgrading the EDF but not the motor. If you upgraded to a 12B fan without upgrading the motor, the change will be small and depending on the fan used, you may even take a step backward. I don't know which 12B EDF you added but you would likely want the 2836-3300Kv motor which would be good for a 4S assuming you want to go that route.

[MrVoyagerx]

Here is the Finwing 40 amp esc currently in the Stinger. The label says it is 2-3s. Do you have information, the internet has little information. I have a Finwing 60 amp 2-6S for a balsa biplane I am restoring. Perhaps this could work? Do you imagine the EDF motor will survive the 12 blade? Opinions? Thanks in advance.

Exactly what am talking about Freewing products, one is in the air about its electronics. The same issues he has experienced its the same thing I have gone through w the F22 64mm. MotionRC does not want to recognize it, they prefer newbies keep destroying their edfs on maiden so they can bank on spare parts, classic stealership mentality.

BTW, RC Castle sells them as well.LOL

[PikeStaff]

Exactly what am talking about Freewing products, one is in the air about its electronics. The same issues he has experienced its the same thing I have gone through w the F22 64mm. MotionRC does not want to recognize it, they prefer newbies keep destroying their edfs on maiden so they can bank on spare parts, classic stealership mentality.

BTW, RC Castle sells them as well.LOL

??? - maybe you could tell us “exactly” where or what you are talking about?

One generally needs to educate oneself about the risks involved in jumping off bridges, before one jumps off. Simple facts regarding system requirements can be obtained, long before any purchase needs to be made. Making bad choices, finding out they were bad choices, and then blaming others for those bad choices.....is characteristically the behavior of arrogance.

Yes, RC Castle does sell them. Likely, that is a better place for you to be. Motion will not, repeat not, steer you wrong provided one can swallow one’s ego long enough to seek out accurate and honest information.

[MrVoyagerx]

??? - maybe you could tell us “exactly” where or what you are talking about?

One generally needs to educate oneself about the risks involved in jumping off bridges, before one jumps off. Simple facts regarding system requirements can be obtained, long before any purchase needs to be made. Making bad choices, finding out they were bad choices, and then blaming others for those bad choices.....is characteristically the behavior of arrogance.

Yes, RC Castle does sell them. Likely, that is a better place for you to be. Motion will not, repeat not, steer you wrong provided one can swallow one’s ego long enough to seek out accurate and honest information.

...:Yawn: It sure is a long jump for you.
I did not pass judgement to you or anyone here on the thread. I am simply following up, that exactly what he is stating and he is coming here to post a legit concern, is the same thing I have experienced.

*So you are a few months late on judging him ad he had the same problem as me a few months ago.

Did you hear that PLHetter? Watch out for those bridges... you sure are wayyyy too deep on this buddy. Just follow what he said, and possibly you may understand what PL is talking about, and then chain it up with my comments.

[Hoomi]

Motion RC has gotten some replacement parts business from me since I first ordered from them, but none of it has been due to inadequate plane or electronics design. The electronics has held up just fine, despite my often less than stellar piloting skills.

What I can say with absolute certainty, though, is that electronics sometimes just fail. I've been steadily employed as an electronics calibration and repair technician for a major aerospace company for over 38 years now, and I could not begin to count the number of times in those nearly four decades, that something has failed without a discernible cause.

The first thing I would check if an ESC failed early in a plane's life, is whether it was receiving enough airflow to provide heat dissipation. Particularly if the plane was flown at or near max throttle throughout the flight, it's going to get hot, and heat has never been the friend of electronics. One thing I've noticed with the Stinger, is that its interior is rather cramped. When I was getting mine set up, I looked at a number of options to try and keep the ESC where it would get airflow. Even then, my plan (when I get to fly it again) is to not fly balls-to-the-wall the whole time, and to not try and stretch the flights out, so as to not overheat the ESC.

[MrVoyagerx]

There are vents on the sides of the scoop holes.
:Silly:
The ESCs are rather small compared to similar 40A esc. It has the size of a 30A, and the fact that there is no brand, no spec sheet, basically a Banggood Aliexpress package, makes them look much cheaper.

I already bought 45A to replace it and use those cheap ones from the F22 and the Stinger for cheap slow flyer projects. I will later upload and put side bt side. Its simple as that, similar to laptops were the chassis is the heatsink. Been too small, heat has nowhere to go. The other option is to make a hole and expose it metal plate facing out.

I can definitely tell, at the beginning has a lot of punch, but a minute into flight and as a governor turned on.

[Hoomi]

My Stinger got her second flight this morning. The gyro adjustment seems to be pretty close to where it needs to be now. I had a couple of moments where it looked like I was getting a little gyro flutter, but it wasn't much, and didn't last longer than a second or two. With landing gear and the gyro, she had no problem doing a rolling take-off on our club's dirt runway. After climbing out, I reduced throttle a bit, and she was still moving at a decent clip. In fact, after my 2 minute timer went off, I circled around to land, came in a bit too hot, and rolled right to the end of the runway, where she flipped over in the weeds. No damage, just a somewhat ugly landing.

Since this was only my second flight ever of an EDF, I'm happy with how it went. I figure a few more with the Stinger, and I'll put the 64mm Warthog in the air.

[MrVoyagerx]

I dont fly w a gyro, do make good use of expo, dual rates and mechanical settings. The Stinger tends to "flutter" as you call it, most edf do at a certain throttle speed, unless its a big wing design like the F22 or the F15 (top/middle type design).

The Stinger can really bleed speed across a field quick, elevator on low, line it up about a two to three feet from the landing area, throttle and elevator until it breaks in a nice flare. All my 64mm are belly landers, its on the best grass field, and try to save weight as much as possible to get most of the battery flight time.

On the F15 I use the SAFE select for launching it and it does help by a lot.