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A couple questions on setup my Freewing BAe Hawk 70mm EDF

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  • A couple questions on setup my Freewing BAe Hawk 70mm EDF

    I just got my first scale EDF, Freewing Bae Hawk 70mm EDF. I am very happy with it. A complete different feeling from the models I am used to, the Hawk is heavy(relatively :)), solid and precise! I expect it to be a great flier!

    I reuse one Spektrum receiver AR636, and set the gyro gain for row at 60%, pitch 70% and yaw 70%. While I swerve the model, I can see pronounced movement of control surfaces. I am sure the direction is valid. However, I am not totally sure if my gain is too aggressive or too weak. I get the gain number from the E-flite Viper 70mm EDF config file provided from HH. I assume the numbers should not be too far off. But I still would like to know your opinions.

    Another issue is: I think the front wheel is too small. It is 1 3/4 inch diameter. I look at the front gear, the cavity seems large enough to hold a bigger wheel. Is it a good idea to replace a larger wheel? I want to do this because I will fly it from grass. If I can replace it, how big is good?

    Thanks a lot! happy flying!

  • #2
    I haven't used a pre-configured (essentially BNF) AS3X receiver transferred into a different airframe, so I cannot speak from experience, and I haven't flown that aircraft with AS3X. However, be very careful with doing so if that's what you're intending to do. Some model receivers can be flashed with new firmware to allow you to reprogram the receiver to appropriate specs. for your new aircraft (watch Horizon's video series on doing so and forward programming). Starting from scratch in the programming allows you to configure the gyro in a way that is appropriate for that specific aircraft. Aircraft are different from one another, so each jet is different as well (the control surface area, throws, top speed, etc.).

    Gyros from various brands are different, so settings aren't all going to be the same (i.e. AS3X versus Hobby Eagle, Cortex, iGyro, etc.). Sometimes gain settings may have a general range to use as a starting point. Two important things to do would be to greatly reduce the all the gyro gains, and to ensure you have a "stabilization/gyro Off" switch in case the gains are too high. It is always good to have the gains set to a minimum and gradually increase them as you test fly the aircraft, rather then have them set too high and experience intense aircraft oscillation. For Freewing EDF jets, I usually have my gains set between 15-25% (although those gains are with other brand of gyro receivers and separate gyro units, not Spektrum), but I start at 10% gain and work my way up during flight testing until I have the aircraft functioning with the gyro to my liking. Having a switch to turn off the gyro stabilization (in this case AS3X) is a safety cushion that can be used in case you notice something wrong with the aicrafts flying character.

    Those are two primary reasons, among others, that it isn't usually recommended to use pre-configured receivers in airframes other than what it was programmed for.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by T-CAT View Post
      I haven't used a pre-configured (essentially BNF) AS3X receiver transferred into a different airframe, so I cannot speak from experience, and I haven't flown that aircraft with AS3X. However, be very careful with doing so if that's what you're intending to do. Some model receivers can be flashed with new firmware to allow you to reprogram the receiver to appropriate specs. for your new aircraft (watch Horizon's video series on doing so and forward programming).

      Gyros from various brands are different, so settings aren't all going to be the same, although sometimes in terms of gain settings there can be ballpark configures as a starting point. Two important things to do would be to greatly reduce the all the gyro gains, and to ensure you have a "stabilization/gyro Off" switch in case the gains are too high. It is always good to have the gains set to a minimum and gradually increase them as you test fly the aircraft, rather then have them set too high and experience intense aircraft oscillation. For Freewing EDF jets, I usually have my gains set between 15-25% (although those gains are with other brand of gyro receivers and separate gyro units, not Spektrum), but I start at 10% gain and work my way up during flight testing until I have the aircraft functioning with the gyro to my liking. Having a switch to turn off the gyro stabilization (in this case AS3X) is a safety cushion that can be used in case you notice something wrong with the aicrafts flying character. These are two primary reasons, among others, that it isn't usually recommended to use pre-configured receivers in airframes other than what it was programmed for.
      T-CAT: good points. Thanks a lot.

      This reminds me my past exprience where I installed an Admiral gyro-equipped receiver to the Shrike glider. The Admiral receiver's gain is adjusted by three knobs on it. Very likely I put the pitch gain too large, after hand launch, the model gave me some wild oscillation. The oscillation was so strong, even the two main wings were heavily bended. The carbon spar inside the wing was crushed too. That model was heavily damaged.

      I got another Shrike, this time I put on a used Spektrum receiver with gain about 70%. This time, the wild oscillation disappeared.

      Do definitely different gyro-equipped receivers do not have same response for same gain.

      Thank you for the advices.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by T-CAT View Post
        I haven't used a pre-configured (essentially BNF) AS3X receiver transferred into a different airframe, so I cannot speak from experience, and I haven't flown that aircraft with AS3X. However, be very careful with doing so if that's what you're intending to do. Some model receivers can be flashed with new firmware to allow you to reprogram the receiver to appropriate specs. for your new aircraft (watch Horizon's video series on doing so and forward programming). Starting from scratch in the programming allows you to configure the gyro in a way that is appropriate for that specific aircraft. Aircraft are different from one another, so each jet is different as well (the control surface area, throws, top speed, etc.).

        Gyros from various brands are different, so settings aren't all going to be the same (i.e. AS3X versus Hobby Eagle, Cortex, iGyro, etc.). Sometimes gain settings may have a general range to use as a starting point. Two important things to do would be to greatly reduce the all the gyro gains, and to ensure you have a "stabilization/gyro Off" switch in case the gains are too high. It is always good to have the gains set to a minimum and gradually increase them as you test fly the aircraft, rather then have them set too high and experience intense aircraft oscillation. For Freewing EDF jets, I usually have my gains set between 15-25% (although those gains are with other brand of gyro receivers and separate gyro units, not Spektrum), but I start at 10% gain and work my way up during flight testing until I have the aircraft functioning with the gyro to my liking. Having a switch to turn off the gyro stabilization (in this case AS3X) is a safety cushion that can be used in case you notice something wrong with the aicrafts flying character.

        Those are two primary reasons, among others, that it isn't usually recommended to use pre-configured receivers in airframes other than what it was programmed for.
        BTW, AS3X cannot be turned off :( I will have to live with it... I am not as experienced as other pilots here, so still think a gyro is something which will help me. Especially this is the first EDF, I am pretty nervous, to say the least.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by long-love-rc View Post

          BTW, AS3X cannot be turned off :( I will have to live with it... I am not as experienced as other pilots here, so still think a gyro is something which will help me. Especially this is the first EDF, I am pretty nervous, to say the least.
          Yes, you can. You set one "flight mode" where the gains are ZERO. Or if it came from another plane, you can bind it where you can have only AS3X ON or OFF.
          PS. Having used different gyros from different brands, Spektrum gain is generally much higher numerically than others like HobbyEagle, Lemon or Bigaole.
          PPS. Oscillation that can destroy wings is usually NOT pitch associated but more likely roll associated. IE, gain on the roll axis (AIL) was too high.

          Comment


          • #6
            You're welcome. On a side note, although I'm a fan of gyros, when new to using and setting them up, they have its challenges if unaware of potential pitfalls. The gyro becomes an additional variable that a pilot has to be aware of it, and ensure its programming and radio programming are sound, gyro control direction is proper (not just checking the control surface inputs are correct), gains aren't excessive, ensure you know where a on/off switch is, etc. If you are starting in jets, this may add additional stress and variables that could potentially go wrong (and on a brand new jet no less). You want to be able to focus on the aircraft, the flight, and absolutely necessary factors to complete it in a safe and successful manner.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by xviper View Post
              Yes, you can. You set one "flight mode" where the gains are ZERO. Or if it came from another plane, you can bind it where you can have only AS3X ON or OFF.
              PS. Having used different gyros from different brands, Spektrum gain is generally much higher numerically than others like HobbyEagle, Lemon or Bigaole.
              PPS. Oscillation that can destroy wings is usually NOT pitch associated but more likely roll associated. IE, gain on the roll axis (AIL) was too high.
              Xviper, this is another great point, note it down :) Will flight mode take up another channel? My radio has run out of channel which is a 6-ch one. I am reluctant to use my new Taranis radio, don't want to use a new radio with a new model, seems too much risks.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by T-CAT View Post
                Those are two primary reasons, among others, that it isn't usually recommended to use pre-configured receivers in airframes other than what it was programmed for.
                Just to clarify a bit, I have re-flashed the receiver to the Ver 1.43, which has no BNF and allow it to be reused. I can adjust it gain as will from Spektrum PC software.

                Comment


                • #9
                  XViper would likely be a much better resource than I would be regarding Spektrum receiver's, which have capability to reflash safely, which can be programmed via cable, Bluetooth, or forward programming, etc. The Spektrum receivers I've used are specifically BNF aircraft, which is the smallest percentage of the aircraft I own, and the majority are flown using a different brand receiver.

                  There are some good threads on RCgroups (such as by Flightengr and other members if I remember correctly), threads here on HobbySquawk, and videos on the AR636 (The RC Air Marshall comes to mind) receiver programming. The associated info. found in those sources are not Horizon's official stance/opinion, and info. may not be up to date, so use at your own risk like anything in RC.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by long-love-rc View Post

                    Xviper, this is another great point, note it down :) Will flight mode take up another channel? My radio has run out of channel which is a 6-ch one. I am reluctant to use my new Taranis radio, don't want to use a new radio with a new model, seems too much risks.
                    No, it doesn't take another channel. Once you have the smart phone APP, you can see the flight modes can be assigned to any 3-position switch (for 3 flight modes). The typical switch on a Spektrum TX is the one on the top left, just in front of the gear switch. In the APP, I believe it's that switch that is the default.
                    Most of my Eflite planes are BNF, however, I have managed to program 2 of these 636's for other planes. It's a matter wiping them clean and starting over page by page of the menus. On my Twin Otter, I have 3 flight modes, each one having different gains and priorities for each control surface. It's really easy to program one flight mode for ZERO gain and ZERO priority, which is essentially equivalent to OFF for the gyros.
                    I'm by no means an expert with the AR636. I'm more of a fiddler and a tinkerer than anything. There are a couple of others fellas here who are very well versed in this arena.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by xviper View Post
                      No, it doesn't take another channel. Once you have the smart phone APP, you can see the flight modes can be assigned to any 3-position switch (for 3 flight modes). The typical switch on a Spektrum TX is the one on the top left, just in front of the gear switch. In the APP, I believe it's that switch that is the default.
                      Most of my Eflite planes are BNF, however, I have managed to program 2 of these 636's for other planes. It's a matter wiping them clean and starting over page by page of the menus. On my Twin Otter, I have 3 flight modes, each one having different gains and priorities for each control surface. It's really easy to program one flight mode for ZERO gain and ZERO priority, which is essentially equivalent to OFF for the gyros.
                      I'm by no means an expert with the AR636. I'm more of a fiddler and a tinkerer than anything. There are a couple of others fellas here who are very well versed in this arena.
                      Cool, will try it. Thanks a bunch!

                      Comment

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