Freewing AV-8B Harrier

[Dougcarr73]

Alpha,

During last Friday's Motion RC LIVE event (Ep. #41 2021), James during Q&A answered my question saying that you could make an AV-8B Harrier. James ended his comments saying the cost and demand are too high & low respectively, per your comments, so essentially, no Harrier. In my relatively smaller circles, I've seen nothing but high interest in an AV-8 model. I've also been following Joel & Melanie Vlashof's progress on youtube who said their hopes are to get it picked up and into production one day to take advantage of that demand. My interest stems from being a former Harrier pilot for the Corps and an avid RC Aviator with a mix of jets, props, and quads that I've acquired since retirement, but unfortunately, no AV-8.

Could you provide some insight into whether a Freewing AV-8 is in the realm of the possible one day? I will literally buy 2 immediately regardless of cost. Any hope you, or anyone could provide on this topic is greatly appreciated.

[xviper]

After I saw this post, I went and watched a few of those YouTube videos. That is a tremendous undertaking, especially for a privateer. Those who are extremely interested in this jet, whether due to some sort of link to it (such as yourself) or just fanatical about VTOLs (such as myself), would consider such a plane as a "must have" and would also have the view that there would be high demand (be it real or perceived). I would buy one, but I do have my monetary limits. For a company like Freewing to make and market one would be a high investment, high risk venture. This thing would have to have a high thrust to weight ratio without sacrificing flight time. It has to be able to transition from hover to straight line flight and back again with good precision and reliability. This would involve a big investment in the flight controller - again, big money. People would get very bored, very quickly just hovering the thing around the helicopter field. They would also get very disappointed and disillusioned if it went crazy every time it transitioned - and the number of these "every time" events could be very few to just one.
I've had both sizes of Eflite Convergences and still have the bigger one. I've had the Eflite V-22 and still have the Banana Hobby V-22. I also have the Flex Innovations FV-31 Cypher, the closest thing to a VTOL jet. The flight controller on the BH V-22 is very rudimentary and close to being "garbage". It's flyable but doing the slightest thing wrong will result is a crash. Then comes the Eflite efforts. Their V-22 was cute but also "garbage". The smaller Convergence is so finicky that it'll crash if you blink the wrong way. The bigger one does fly OK and has a more advanced flight controller than the BH V-22. Still not foolproof. The Cypher is by far, the best VTOL commercially available on the market today. It's "nearly foolproof" but an inattentive pilot can outsmart himself. It also has one of the most sophisticated flight controllers of that type of model.
For Freewing to make such a plane that can fly well and transition well and do it without giving the owner soiled shorts, isn't going to be cheap. If it cost over $1000.00 each, would you still buy 2? I probably wouldn't buy even one. The BH V-22 is not cheap. The Cypher is far from "not cheap", considering what it is. A Harrier would be really far from "not cheap". As much as one would like to think there is a market for this model, it would be a niche market. The question then becomes ................ Is Freewing willing to cater to the niche market?
I too, would be interested to hear what Alpha has to say about this.

[KevinMar]

The greatest barrier for a company that wants to sell an RC AV-8 is the complexity. They cannot rely on only expert pilots and mechanics to buy it. They need to be sure that when a novice buys it, they don't crash it due to lack of talent, then turn around and blame the manufacturer. That incurs a huge cost to the manufacturer.

For the AV-8 you have the standard 6 channels (ale,elev,thr,rud,flp,gr) plus the augmentation of the 4 nozzles, plus some form of reaction control system (be it additional power systems or bleed air) plus auxiliary intake doors for non-forward flight.

Now none of that is even considering the enormous hurdle of making the airframe nearly impossibly light weight, and the power system extremely powerful AND efficient.

That being said, sign me up for a $1,500 AV-8 or F-35B!

[xviper]

You hit the nail on the head with the statement about marketing such a plane to anyone. Eflite and Banana made that mistake with their VTOLs. Just about anyone with an RC TX bought one. I think the vast majority of those who bought one, crashed it on the first transition flight, that is if they got even that far. Then the rumors start going around about what terrible products they were. I'm the only one who still flies all 3 VTOLs and I know I'm not the only one who bought them.
I'd really have to fight with my "other" self to spend $1500.00 on one. I'd have to see it fly in private hands and see what kind of flight controller is in it. Having said that, they do make some very good flight controllers these days for not much money. Well, who am I kidding? Yeah, I'd buy one for 1500 clams.

[Dougcarr73]

Wow fellas! Extremely enlightening feedback. I too have owned the E-Flite V22. Fun fact - it was my gateway into the hobby, which led to my E-flite F-16, FW 90mm F-18, FW T-45, 8S F-22, Twin 80mm A-10, Draco... plane plane plane... and recent F-14 that I programmed w/ RC Geek's setup. Other than my Diatone Quads, the V-22 is my only VTOL experience other than actual flight time.

Considering the scale and tech of Joel & Melanie Vlashof's AV-8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mY3EdWNhmU), I was anticipating a cost just shy of $2k, so $1500 would be great! After digesting your comments I realize my resolve, resources, and experience are a tad unique when compared to the average customer. Definitely a niche market on top of an already niche community, which incus risk for Motion/FW sales. Understood, however, that doesn't diminish my desire, anticipation, and petition for the production of an AV-8. We are leaps and bounds ahead of where the community was 10 years ago and if Moore's Law holds true, we're about 2-4 years away from J&M's AV-8 becoming a production reality. Maybe sooner if FW/Alpha says, "screw it! Hold my beer and watch this. I'm doing it for the 'gram."

[Gilatrout]

I'd buy a harrier even if it didn't hover. I know one of you guys would figure it out and those that want to hover can make the mod.

[GarrisonR]

Check out this guys YouTube channel. Has his SU-XR that will do VTOL but he is also creating a AV-8 Harrier and I believe he is planning on producing them in some capacity. I also watch Joel's channel and both of these guys dedication to VTOL is impressive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1OaC5G4HGY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dZADuzxmgY

[xviper]

Forget the Harrier. I want the SU-X. The complexity of it is mind boggling. I doubt it can be mass produced for even $1500.00. I'm thinking $3000.00 to $4000.00 and it will appeal to a very small and unique type of buyer. Not many RC pilots will want to risk splashing that kind of money.

[xviper]

I spoke too soon. That SU-X will be over $14,000.00 US. Way out of my league. My car doesn't even cost that much.

[GarrisonR]

oh wow, I had never looked into the price.