FMS P51 Crash

[Capt. Crunch]

RE: FMS P51 Crash

Oh man Tex that's heart breaking! Sorry for your loss. Hope you can figure out what the culprit was.

As far as Spektrum goes, that's all I use and have never had any issues with it. So far...


Jeff

[TexasPilot71]

RE: FMS P51 Crash

Geez Tex, that's just so wrong!?

I don't know what it is about Snoots Sniper, Stoopid Monkey (Sean Byington) had the same plane and the same results.  I have the Shangila version and have had good success with it, with Spektrum gear.  As a matter of fact, eight of  nine of my planes use Spektrum receivers, the two others being trainers.  I'm thinking maybe a control rod got hung up? somehow got out of range, although it doesn't look like that was the case.  Was the motor still turning over?
Man, its a real mystery...
All I can think of is that if you repair, do a range check.  You should get 6 minutes of average flying easily on a 3600 4S battery.  Do a cell check on it and brand new AA's in the DX 6i, wish I could offer more..

Grossman56

No, all control rods, etc were free and correct. As you can see in the video, everything worked as advertised when I got to the plane. Some on a facebook forum are suggesting the ESC may have failed to power the receiver for some reason. Transmitter batteries were very new and had great voltage and motor still runs. Hard to say if I still had power during the descent because I chopped the power instinctively when it started down. Range check was good before I flew it the first time (same receiver, etc). It's got to be something electrical. Very disappointed.

[Lon]

RE: FMS P51 Crash

Yikes!

It can be such a depressing thing. All kinds of emotions.  Take a few days break from it all. Sleep on it.

I've only been flying a little over a year. No Tx/Rec issues. Can only imagine the frustration.

I too have only been flying Spektrum DX6i and DX6 with Spektrum receivers.

[Grossman56]

RE: FMS P51 Crash

Well, you may be on to something their, I think I'd replace the ESC and the receiver as they may have been damaged in the original crash.  That would make sense, given what I can see in the crash.  What you may want to do is bring it to the attention of the guys at Motion R/C, they have a pretty good eye for things like that and maybe they can advise you.  But if something was shorting out in the ESC, it would have caused the result I see in the video.

Of course its frustrating as heck, you may want to start again with a new fuselage (unfortunately out of stock at the moment, at least for the Snoots Sniper version) but for $50 it may be worth your while.  Check with the boys for a time frame in that, meanwhile see what you can salvage.  Good luck with it!

Grossman56

[CT]

RE: FMS P51 Crash

Well, here she is.  All ready for post-crash maiden.

Before flight:


And after:


[hr]
I am so fed up with this.  It appears I lost rx/tx connection.  Using a DX6 with a healthy set of batteries and a "true" Spektrum receiver.  Purchased new and flown on this airplane several times before the first crash.  There's only one other thing I did before the first crash and that was change out the motor which went bad (magnets came un-glued).  I think I'm done with this hobby :(

http://youtu.be/tn8MjPMG-0c

Hang in there Texas, I know flying can be extremely frustrating sometimes. For what its worth, I also had reception issues with my DX-6 , when I moved up to the Dx-8 & 9 all those problems disappeared.
Chris

[rc-eflyer]

RE: FMS P51 Crash

First of all, please take Lons' advice and take a break. I can't tell you how many times I've felt like throwing in the towel but I'm so so glad I didn't. No doubt about it, crashing sucks and I still hate it. Especially when such a nice model is involved. Faulty equipment, especially when intermittent, can be a real bear. Now I hope you take what I'm going to ask in the way it's meant, which is trying to understand what MIGHT have happened. I'm in no way criticizing your flying ability! I watched the video several times and noticed that you were doing some pretty aggressive flying as far as pulling some pretty tight loops with not a lot of speed. Then the next time we see the plane it is in what looks like a pretty classic stalled wing spin. What happened initially that made you think the radio pooped out on you? Spektrum stuff is what I fly (DX7) and has been rock solid. Above all DON'T give up, you'll get it figured out, heck if it was easy anybody could do it.....right?

Steve

[TexasPilot71]

RE: FMS P51 Crash

First of all, please take Lons' advice and take a break.  I can't tell you how many times I've felt like throwing in the towel but I'm so so glad I didn't.  No doubt about it, crashing sucks and I still hate it.  Especially when such a nice model is involved.  Faulty equipment, especially when intermittent, can be a real bear. Now I hope you take what I'm going to ask in the way it's meant, which is trying to understand what MIGHT have happened.  I'm in no way criticizing your flying ability!  I watched the video several times and noticed that you were doing some pretty aggressive flying as far as pulling some pretty tight loops with not a lot of speed.  Then the next time we see the plane it is in what looks like a pretty classic stalled wing spin.  What happened initially that made you think the radio pooped out on you? Spektrum stuff is what I fly (DX7) and has been rock solid.  Above all DON'T give up, you'll get it figured out, heck if it was easy anybody could do it.....right?

Steve

Thanks, Steve. Yes, I'll take a break (from that bird) and go back to flying my Cub for a while. And I appreciate your thoughts above. I'm used to the aggressive flying and I often stall my planes and recovery is always a piece of cake. At the spiral entry point (I'm not calling this a true aerodynamic spin) I had plenty of airspeed and that is where I seemed to lose control over the plane. All through the descent I'm inputting elevator (positive and negative), rudder, and ailerons but there is zero change despite the plentiful airspeed. I had more than enough altitude to recover from any spin, but I wasn't at or near stall speeds when it crapped out on me. Even an accelerated stall (in a steep turn) should have easily been able to get out of with that much altitude.

[rc-eflyer]

RE: FMS P51 Crash

OK, and thanks for taking my comments as I intended. As far as the radio failing I have lost one aircraft that was clearly a radio problem. For some reason (still unknown) at the club field we had several of us experience complete radio "lockout" where the model would just not respond. Then when at the crash site everything would work perfectly. We never found out what caused it but it got several of us over a few weeks and then just never happened again. One thing I have seen at another place I fly is people having brief loss of control as they fly near a large baseball diamond that has a huge amount of metal fencing as backstops and bleachers. Our thinking is that it's reflections of the 2.4 Ghz signal. Did your receiver have a satellite receiver? I won't fly anything I treasure without one personally.
Anyway, hope you get it all sorted out.

Steve

[Ben]

RE: FMS P51 Crash

I am going to throw this out there and I am sure its probably not applicable but..The spectrum receivers that are getting used are they older? If you go on HH website and start looking at their receivers they have or use to have some warnings about some of their "park flyer" receivers. If you bought a BNF snortin bull P-47 or gun fighter p-51 park flyer then that is the receives they are talking about. Basically they are six channel spectrum receivers with no satellite. I cant remember the exact number, I want to say AR600 but could be wrong. The warnings they give say do not use them in larger model aircraft. I suspect they lose signal easier, and if you look at the parkzone planes they all have holes cut in the fuse bottom tail side. I figure that's to allow a better signal. I throw this out there because one of my friends used those on some balsa built electrics. They would lose signal randomly. We had a hell of a time trouble shooting it especially after a total loss. That is what we came up with and since he quit using those in the balsa and larger FMS foam planes, he has not had a signal problem

[farmflyer]

RE: FMS P51 Crash

I have experienced the signal loss on a parkzone p51bl twice changed the receiver with another stock receiver and never had another problem with it. The holes on the bottom of the fuse are there to allow air flow out through the plane I cut them in all my planes that don't have them from the factory. It's better to not lose one because of heating issues than have a perfect looking smooth bottom. I've also had similar issues with one tactic receiver changed it to another identical one and no more problem. I have about 15 park flyers all on basic 6 channel park flyer receivers either spectrum or tactic. For the price low price we are paying for these planes and parts an occasional failure is part of the deal. I'm sure it doesn't feel better at the time but after stepping back and looking at what we are doing for the cost involved it's still worth it.

[Ben]

RE: FMS P51 Crash

I have experienced the signal loss on a parkzone p51bl twice changed the receiver with another stock receiver and never had another problem with it. The holes on the bottom of the fuse are there to allow air flow out through the plane I cut them in all my planes that don't have them from the factory. It's better to not lose one because of heating issues than have a perfect looking smooth bottom. I've also had similar issues with one tactic receiver changed it to another identical one and no more problem. I have about 15 park flyers all on basic 6 channel park flyer receivers either spectrum or tactic. For the price low price we are paying for these planes and parts an occasional failure is part of the deal. I'm sure it doesn't feel better at the time but after stepping back and looking at what we are doing for the cost involved it's still worth it.

Yeah your right the airflow is probably it. I just remember seeing that warning to not use park flyer receives in larger model planes etc. etc. and the experience my friend kept having. But, as I recall he actually started using spectrum 7 and 8 channel receivers with satellites so that would make a big difference as well. I know guys who are using the lemon and the "spectrum" orange in some really nice gas planes and have never had a single problem. I just don't have the guts to put one in my larger planes lol.

[TexasPilot71]

RE: FMS P51 Crash

Thanks again everybody. The receiver is a brand new AR610. I did not tape down the antennas so that they were perpendicular, but I did place them perpendicular to each other under the canopy. I figured the canopy (it is tight) would keep everything in place. I am leaning toward the ESC/BEC dropping out for some reason. I played with the receiver last night in the garage, but couldn't get it to fail. I didn't have much of a load on it (motor only...without prop), so a better test would include the motor under load with all electrics hooked up and operating. I'll need a new prop back plate for that, though.

[Ben]

RE: FMS P51 Crash

Thanks again everybody.  The receiver is a brand new AR610.  I did not tape down the antennas so that they were perpendicular, but I did place them perpendicular to each other under the canopy.  I figured the canopy (it is tight) would keep everything in place.  I am leaning toward the ESC/BEC dropping out for some reason.  I played with the receiver last night in the garage, but couldn't get it to fail.  I didn't have much of a load on it (motor only...without prop), so a better test would include the motor under load with all electrics hooked up and operating.  I'll need a new prop back plate for that, though.

[*]Full-range DSMX® receiver[*]Antenna is amplified for greater signal clarity[*]Flight log and telemetry compatible[*]2048 resolution[*]6 Channel sport aircraft receiver for parkflyers to .90 sized sport planes
[*]That's off HH for that receiver. Should be good. I just get leary when they say up to .90 or whatever size. Why cant it work in a giant scale or any non-carbon fused plane? Why do they limit the plane size? Makes me wonder that's all I am sayin

[TexasPilot71]

RE: FMS P51 Crash

I think I've figured out the problem. Went out to fly the Sport Cub yesterday and thought I'd do a range check first even though I've never had any problems before. Keep in mind, I haven't flown this plane since the back-to-back Mustang crashes. Range check failed...miserably! Kept cutting in/out. The ONLY thing in common was the transmitter (5 month old Spektrum DX6). I've put a help ticket into Spektrum/Horizon and am waiting on an RMA to send back to them. Never thought it would have been a transmitter problem, but seems like this isn't a new issue for it. Might be rare, but not new.

[Grossman56]

RE: FMS P51 Crash

Now that's maddening!  Good thing you did arrange check though, the only thing worse than one broken plane is several broken planes.  At least now you can get the problem solved and move on, good luck!

Grossman56

[farmflyer]

RE: FMS P51 Crash

I've seen this before on dx6i it was corosion on the control pots on the back of the sticks where the contacts are. It can be carefully brushed off by dissembling the transmitter removing the stick assembly and cleaning the contacts. If you live an area that is high humidity it is recommended to do every few months. I found this on a search a few years ago looking for a similar problem.

[TexasPilot71]

RE: FMS P51 Crash

I've seen this before on dx6i it was corosion on the control pots on the back of the sticks where the contacts are. It can be carefully brushed off by dissembling the transmitter removing the stick assembly and cleaning the contacts. If you live an area that is high humidity it is recommended to do every few months. I found this on a search a few years ago looking for a similar problem.

Wow, that's interesting. I'm in the Dallas, TX area, so yes we get our share of humidity. This isn't a DX6i (it's a newer DX6), but the principle is probably the same. Still waiting to hear from Spektrum. A little disappointed in the slow response thus far. I would have preferred to return to HobbyTown USA for a refund and let them get reimbursed by Spektrum, but they wanted nothing to do with that. Thinking about going to a Taranis. Lots of folks around here just love them.

[boomer108]

RE: FMS P51 Crash

Hey Texas,

  Sounds like you would benefit by ordering from Motion Rc. There customer service is unbeatable,they wouldn't leave you hanging like Hobby Town.

Roy B.

[rc-eflyer]

RE: FMS P51 Crash

Good to hear you most likely found the culprit. As far as getting it fixed by Horizon I will say they were more than fair when I sent my DX7 in. It was an early version that had a flaw in the bios where if you accidently left it on and drained the battery or it the battery got unplugged while the radio was on it would not boot up. The radio was well out of warranty but they fixed it no charge and even threw in a new battery. Now get that Mustang fixed up while your grounded ;).

Steve

[TexasPilot71]

RE: FMS P51 Crash

Hey Texas,

  Sounds like you would benefit by ordering from Motion Rc. There customer service is unbeatable,they wouldn't leave you hanging like Hobby Town.

Roy B.

Yep, I like these Motion RC guys already! Lesson learned.

Good to hear you most likely found the culprit.  As far as getting it fixed by Horizon I will say they were more than fair when I sent my DX7 in.  It was an early version that had a flaw in the bios where if you accidently left it on and drained the battery or it the battery got unplugged while the radio was on it would not boot up.  The radio was well out of warranty but they fixed it no charge and even threw in a new battery.  Now get that Mustang fixed up while your grounded ;).

Steve

Glad to hear. I sent an email two days ago, however and still no response :(