First RC Plane/Trainer

[frjeff]

Just began learning a bit on the Real Flight 9 sim. Hope to buy my first plane in a month or so (when winter ends) and learn to fly at a nearby club. Owned a Cherokee 180 for 10 years and wondering if this Cherokee would make a good first plane/trainer? Was considering the Mini Apprentice, but this model really has some sentimental appeal.
Thanks

[serpentracer]

the apprentice sts is actually easier to fly than the mini. plus it comes with an 30A ESC and bigger motor that can be easily swapped for something else. the mini's motor and esc combo is harder to find a alternative for. and you can use a larger size battery in the bigger apprentice sts. so if you already have some 3s batteries that you use in a car/truck it should fit in the sts. the mini uses a special little battery. then there's the compatibility issue with the GPS sensor. the mini can't use it. it's a really cool module that enables even more "safe" stuff to the plane.
I would advise you to look at both and compare. it's more expensive but I think it's worth the additional price.

[Grossman56]

Hi frjeff!
Welcome to Hobbysquawk and that hobby itself!
Ah, you remind me of myself when I first looked at getting into this hobby, I wanted a Mustang and so I purchased one right off the bat. New Dx6i radio and a couple of batteries and I'd be soaring through the skies!
Thankfully, cooler heads prevailed. I ended up buying a trainer and learned to fly on that, then went into a Pandora (actually two) and honed my skills on that as the Mustang sat in the basement as the prize for doing it right. Now into my sixth season, the Mustang is a regular flyer as are the two Pandoras as well as two other P-51's, a Pitts, an F7F, a P-40, a Spitfire1200 and 1600 mm, an Avanti jet and a recently purchased Flex Innovations RV 8.
The point is crawl, walk, run as Dave Scott would say ( who I also took lessons off ) At that time, my wife was learning to fly as well so she took Dave's course with me. An Apprentice was something I hadn't heard of and he happened to have a plane with the same gear in it that the Apprenticed did. The wife had never even touched a radio before and she was taking off and landing with it and laughing.
The point is, all of my original planes are either flying or in the case of my primary trainer, remain flightworthy because I took the time to learn to crawl before walking and walk before running.
We all went down the same road to success, none of us strapped on a warbird or whatever and learned to fly. Those that tried ended up lining their garbage cans with some high priced foam.
Find a good club and ask questions, there'll be guys who will help you out and point you in the right direction. Don't forget, we all are here as well don't hesitate to ask questions here as well.

Grossman56

[frjeff]

Hi frjeff!
Welcome to Hobbysquawk and that hobby itself!
Ah, you remind me of myself when I first looked at getting into this hobby, I wanted a Mustang and so I purchased one right off the bat. New Dx6i radio and a couple of batteries and I'd be soaring through the skies!
Thankfully, cooler heads prevailed. I ended up buying a trainer and learned to fly on that, then went into a Pandora (actually two) and honed my skills on that as the Mustang sat in the basement as the prize for doing it right. Now into my sixth season, the Mustang is a regular flyer as are the two Pandoras as well as two other P-51's, a Pitts, an F7F, a P-40, a Spitfire1200 and 1600 mm, an Avanti jet and a recently purchased Flex Innovations RV 8.
The point is crawl, walk, run as Dave Scott would say ( who I also took lessons off ) At that time, my wife was learning to fly as well so she took Dave's course with me. An Apprentice was something I hadn't heard of and he happened to have a plane with the same gear in it that the Apprenticed did. The wife had never even touched a radio before and she was taking off and landing with it and laughing.
The point is, all of my original planes are either flying or in the case of my primary trainer, remain flightworthy because I took the time to learn to crawl before walking and walk before running.
We all went down the same road to success, none of us strapped on a warbird or whatever and learned to fly. Those that tried ended up lining their garbage cans with some high priced foam.
Find a good club and ask questions, there'll be guys who will help you out and point you in the right direction. Don't forget, we all are here as well don't hesitate to ask questions here as well.

Grossman56

Thanks. Good advice. Flying the RF9 sim this morning for an hour+ in Intermediate Mode. Even though I knew I could not wreck the plane or kill 275 passengers and crew in the back, my nerves were shot when finished. But, still great fun!
Have a club nearby, but no one has answered my inquiry yet (still a ways off from flying weather here in northern Michigan).
I am still leaning toward the Apprentice or Mini Apprentice. Can hone skills on it and then begin to fill a hanger.

[Grossman56]

Yes, good choice, however, after you get over the 'first flight jitters', get out of the primary mode as fast as you can, in intermediate, the controls react the way they will for all future planes whereas, in primary you just hold the stick over to turn, like a steering wheel. Intermediate will allow you to bank and you have to introduce some back (pull back on the stick) elevator to maintain altitude. Intermediate will only allow you to bank so far where advanced (normal) mode you'll be able to roll the aircraft.
Take some time to ensure that your control surfaces sit at neutral when the plane is powered up and the radio is on and just in case you didn't know this, some basic safety rules:
Always turn the radio on first and ensure that the throttle is off, assign a switch for a throttle kill switch.
Never be in front of the airplane when powering it up or allow anyone to stand in front of the airplane. I know that the Apprentice is on the table and upside down when plugging in the battery, but still...
The radio is the last thing you shut off, you don't want an uncontrolled airplane!!
Takeoff and landings are easy in the Apprentice, this sucker wants to fly!! When flying the pattern with ours, I'll roll the throttle back to one click, if not all the way off before doing the final turn to slow it down for landings. Wings level and line her up with the runway, nose level to a slight nose up attitude and let her descend, if it comes down a little quicker than you want, introduce a bit of throttle. Don't raise the nose as this will bleed off speed and stall the airplane. When about a foot or so off the runway, THEN raise the nose slightly, she'll settle in on her mains, all you have to do is drive her to a stop. Takeoffs are just that, line her up with the runway, smoothly advance throttle and just touch the elevator back and your up, just remember to lower the nose so as not to climb too steeply.
A couple of years ago, I had a thread on HS called, 'All Us Newbies, Lets Share" when I was first getting into the hobby. Without making a person dig through the archives to find it, feel free to ask me or any of the guys for advice and guidance. We've all been there and know what it's like. Here's some pics I took a couple of years ago before I hung 'Ol' Weedwacker" up on the hangar ceiling. At that point I was flying the Avanti for the first season. They were my 'then and now' pictures...

So that's where you're headed, there's what three or four years between them if I recall and a couple of years since these were taken. BTW, the Mustang is still flying



Grossman56

[frjeff]

Great tips and encouragement! Thanks for taking the time to reply. I just got setup with a club and an instructor. Should (weather permitting) begin about end of April. They have a trainer (the discontinued Sportsman). Similar to the Apprentice. So, I will not buy anything until about solo time.

[Grossman56]

Hey, great news!
BTW, where are you located, there's a lot of our guys scattered around the country.
When I first started, I had the HobbyZone Supercub as you can see, it had no ailerons, just rudder and elevator so when I got into the Pandora, I had to learn a new stick layout. A bunch of us at the time all were in the same boat, learning to fly on the Pandora so we came through the thing together and HobbySquawk played a big part of that. The great thing about the Pandora is that I still fly both of mine and they're great wind planes. Not fast by any stretch, but they taught me how to take off and land and they're so much fun to hover in the wind. A pretty good plane to think about for the next step.

Grossman56

[frjeff]

Hey, great news!
BTW, where are you located, there's a lot of our guys scattered around the country.
When I first started, I had the HobbyZone Supercub as you can see, it had no ailerons, just rudder and elevator so when I got into the Pandora, I had to learn a new stick layout. A bunch of us at the time all were in the same boat, learning to fly on the Pandora so we came through the thing together and HobbySquawk played a big part of that. The great thing about the Pandora is that I still fly both of mine and they're great wind planes. Not fast by any stretch, but they taught me how to take off and land and they're so much fun to hover in the wind. A pretty good plane to think about for the next step.

Grossman56

Will look at it.
I’m in Northern Michigan; far from much of anything..............

[drettger]

The best thing you can do to learn to fly RC planes is to get an instructor. Even the very easy to fly trainers can get ahead of you your first few times out. Most clubs will have designated instructors who will be happy to help a new person. Need to find a club nearby? Check out the AMA club finder link:

https://www.modelaircraft.org/club-finder

That should pop up any clubs near you.

As for a trainer setup, make sure you get the basic four channels on your plane, aileron, elevator, rudder, throttle. My personal opinion is that, basically, bigger is better (within reason). A small airplane will probably be more squirrelly than a larger plane. Tricycle gear is easier to steer on the ground than a tail dragger, but either one will work for a trainer. Just make sure that, for at least the first flight, you go up with someone who can trim it out and then get you going with it.

[Grossman56]

Since you're in Michigan, you're not far from Wisconsin where Dave Scott has his 1stUS RCFlightSchool.
Diane and I went a few years ago, I had just started flying and she had never even touched a radio. In the five days of instruction in the Solo course, she was flying and having a lot of fun! I liked it so much that I went back the next year for the next class. Keep in mind we're coming from Wyoming!
Dave is a great teacher and one heck of a pilot in both RC and full scale aerobatics.

https://www.rcflightschool.com

well worth checking out!
Here's Diane flying...

And here's me...


Here's us getting our certificates which at present are hanging framed on the wall beside me...


Dave's manuals are available and are a great source of information as well.

Grossman56 (Dan)

[Torbern]

Hello

I have a question for Grossman56, I am new to this hobby and I have a dream to fly the Freewing A4 Skyhawk.
However, which steps do I need to pass before I can go and buy a Skyhawk (and not crash it)?
Shall I buy a RC-simulator and a beginner plane (e.g. XK A1200, Freewing Pandora...) and learn the basic skills from these. But how do I move on from the beginners plane and which steps (or airplanes) do I need to go through before I can fly the skyhawk?
For example:

1. Freewing Pandora --> 2. ??? war-bird (Spitfire?) --> 3. 64 mm EDF-jet -->4. Skyhawk

Thank you in advance for your good advice and guidance.
For your information, I live in Southern Sweden and there are not many RC-clubs here..... so I might have to learn to fly by myself....

[drettger]

For your information, I live in Southern Sweden and there are not many RC-clubs here..... so I might have to learn to fly by myself....

Don't know if this will help you, but Googling RC Clubs in Sweden I see:

https://www.rc-airplane-world.com/rc...es.html#sweden

RC plane clubs in Sweden

Kungsängens Modellflygklubb
Website: http://www.kmfk.se/
Location: Upplands-Bro, Stockholm.


If there is any possibility of having an instructor, that is the way to go. Starting with a trainer plane is important. The Skyhawk might be the third step. For a second plane, I would pick a faster, tricycle gear plane to get used to something quicker.

If you must start without an instructor, you might want to look into some trainer plane with "Safe" technology. Supposedly you can set that so it will not get too out of whack during flight. The hardest parts about flying RC are knowing the plane's orientation. When it is going away, left is left and right is right. When it is coming at you, if you move the control to the left, the plane will react to your right. If it is upside down, up and down are reversed. The second thing you need to get used to is sensing just how far away it is. I have seen lots of people come in for a landing absolutely sure they are this side of a far tree, only to disappear behind that tree once they got low. So, keep the plane closer, where it is easier to see.

Good luck!

[Grossman56]

Hello

I have a question for Grossman56, I am new to this hobby and I have a dream to fly the Freewing A4 Skyhawk.
However, which steps do I need to pass before I can go and buy a Skyhawk (and not crash it)?
Shall I buy a RC-simulator and a beginner plane (e.g. XK A1200, Freewing Pandora...) and learn the basic skills from these. But how do I move on from the beginners plane and which steps (or airplanes) do I need to go through before I can fly the skyhawk?
For example:

1. Freewing Pandora --> 2. ??? war-bird (Spitfire?) --> 3. 64 mm EDF-jet -->4. Skyhawk

Thank you in advance for your good advice and guidance.
For your information, I live in Southern Sweden and there are not many RC-clubs here..... so I might have to learn to fly by myself....

Hi Torbern:
Crawl, walk, run!
Realistically, the Skyhawk is a few seasons away, I'd say at least three, but more than likely four!
The good news is the journey is a fun one!!
First off, a good trainer. We all had first flight jitters and you will too, the good news is there are airplanes out there that will get you through this with no trouble. I'm thinking the E Flite Apprentice
https://www.horizonhobby.com/product/airplanes/double-points/trainer/apprentice-sts-15e-rtf-with-safe-15m-and-dxe-transmitter-p-efl3700

reading through the specs, it comes with everything you need to get started, I'd recommend a couple more batteries.
Also, a good Flight Sim will help a lot, I've had good success with Real Flight.
The Apprentice will allow you to progress through those first flights in a simple beginner flight mode where you just steer the airplane like a car, it won't roll or anything like that. When you've built up your confidence, you can go into Flight mode two, intermediate. In this mode, you will have to bank the airplane over and apply up elevator to turn, but the airplane will only bank over so far and again, you can't roll it. In Mode three, it turns into a regular airplane that you CAN roll and loop and do all the sport aerobatics.
If you can get that far on your own in the first season, you're doing amazingly well. Realistically, if you can get out of primary mode and well into intermediate, be able to fly the pattern and land, you're well on your way.
The flight Sim will help you learn muscle memory and get you familiar with all the inputs without having to crash an airplane!! As a matter of fact, I believe RF 9 even has an Apprentice on it.
As someone who is new to the hobby, that's where I'd recommend you start.
Afterwards, a Pandora is a great plane for transitioning to low wing. I flew mine briefly on high wing, but changed over to low wing tail dragger pretty early as that was the configuration I was aiming for, the choice is up to you. A bunch of us on HobbySquawk started off at the same time so we were constantly comparing notes. The rule of thumb was that before you got into a warbird, you could land consistently well at least fifty times with a Pandora. I worked on that for the second season and got into warbirds on the third. Got my first jet on the fifth I believe, an Avanti and its the only jet I've had. They're different and they are fast! You got to be ahead of every plane you fly, there is no time for catch up, especially with a jet!
Now, there are some good new jets on the market classified as trainer. I think its the E Flite Viper that they nick named the Apprentice jet. That might (repeat might) be the next thing you want to try after getting proficient with the Pandora, guys, chime in on this please.
https://www.horizonhobby.com/viper-edf-bnf-basic--70mm-p-efl7750


As for a radio, the RF9 and the Apprentice come with one at is all set up for that Sim or airplane. Leave it for that Sim or airplane. When you get to a Pandora, you'll need a radio and receiver. Don't go for anything less than 8 channels. I personally use a Spektrum DX8 v1, and a lot of fellows at our club have the DX9 which seems to be an outstanding radio. I also use Lemon receivers as well as Spektrums, the Lemons are less expensive and great quality. These choices are up to you. Learning to use and setup these radios is another thing you'll have to take on, it's pretty simple once you've done it a few times, but don't hesitate to ask questions to your fellow squawkers here.
This should give you plenty to think about. Compare this to learning to drive a car. Not likely that you would have great results learning to drive a high powered sports car. If you try to run before you can walk or walk before you can crawl, you'll end up lining the trash can with a lot of expensive foam.

Grossman56

[mshagg]

Hello

I have a question for Grossman56, I am new to this hobby and I have a dream to fly the Freewing A4 Skyhawk.
However, which steps do I need to pass before I can go and buy a Skyhawk (and not crash it)?
Shall I buy a RC-simulator and a beginner plane (e.g. XK A1200, Freewing Pandora...) and learn the basic skills from these. But how do I move on from the beginners plane and which steps (or airplanes) do I need to go through before I can fly the skyhawk?
For example:

1. Freewing Pandora --> 2. ??? war-bird (Spitfire?) --> 3. 64 mm EDF-jet -->4. Skyhawk

Thank you in advance for your good advice and guidance.
For your information, I live in Southern Sweden and there are not many RC-clubs here..... so I might have to learn to fly by myself....

Everyone's journey is different. A big factor in all of this is how much time you'll have to get out and fly, and how much you're able to invest in things like chargers, batteries, spares etc. If you can get half a dozen flights in each session, you'll progress a lot faster than someone who only has one battery. Also how much time you're willing to spend learning about the physics of flight and the various elements of the hobby (battery tech and safety, transmitters and receivers, ESCs, airspace regulations etc). Buying the plane is the cheap and easy bit ;) The bug bit me bad, I went really hard at the start of my journey and was confidently flying (and landing - which is the hard part after all!) 80mm EDFs within 6 months of my first ever flight. Not everyone will have that much spare time, consistent access to a flying site, or favourable weather conditions.

What doesnt really change is the need for a high wing trainer.

Although buying a warbird before you're ready and crashing it is pretty much a right of passage in this hobby (happy to admit I did it lol), I wouldnt buy one if my end goal wasnt to be flying warbirds.

Technologies like SAFE are a godsend for people who dont have access to a club, instructors etc. However, it's just as important to learn how it works as it is to learn how your radio works, or how a servo works.

Take it one step at a time. Set goals and patiently work towards them. Whilst it's always important to put safety before everything else, dont be afraid of setbacks and failures. The best pilots in the world will dumb thumb a plane into the ground every now and then lol.

As a fellow jet enthusiast, it's important to understand the impact of the surface you're flying off. Many scale jets are intended to be flown from paved surfaces and wont play nice on grass. Thankfully freewing jets are among the most grass capable ones on the market, but still, it's always worth reading up on people's experiences flying from whatever surface you will be using.

Oh and dont forget to have fun along the way.

[Torbern]

Dear Grossman56 & mshagg

WOW! Thanks a lot for all the good information and the many good advises. I be sure to get that E Flite Apprentice and start have fun with it. Great that it has those 4 modes also. Hehehe this will be fun!

[Grossman56]

It's definitely fun!
Just remember to fly safely in an area where there are no people in the way or trees or light stands or cars....
BTW, the way to land is to find a ground reference and use it to make your turn to line up your landings. Wings level and a very small amount of descent angle. Instead of diving for the runway, keep the nose as close to level and use the throttle to descend. What happens is that the air speed decreases which decreases to lift which makes the plane descend. Coming down too fast? Increase throttle slightly, not fast enough, decrease throttle.
In the case of trike gear, slight nose up just before she touches down and you got it made. My wife and I made a game of timing that slight back pressure on the stick just before landing, she go really good at it.

Grossman56

[drettger]

Grossman56 is right on with his information about landing. I find landing to be the most fun part of the flight, and not the most risky part! Think about it. Landing is simply a matter of lining up at a reasonable point and then cutting power (perhaps adding a bit if needed as per his instructions). If you keep the plane's wings level and just let it gently descend, you are going to land at some point. In my estimation, the most risky part of the flight is when the plane gets somewhat far away and then you turn back toward yourself. At that point the left/right control of the plane reverses. I have seen more student pilots turn the plane upside down at that point because the plane, say, banked to their right and they then banked left. It is that disorientation that will crash a plane.

When I instruct someone, I try to keep the plane "two mistakes high". So, if the student gets it into trouble, I have time to get it out!

[Grossman56]

One of the best tips I got was when the plane is coming toward you and you get confused with left and right, turn yourself in the direction the pilot would be facing and it all comes together.
For instance, if the plane s approaching you from the left, rotate yourself to the right, even if its just a swing from the hips, it really works!

Grossman56

[NeilMaxx]

Hi all, hopefully someone can help... I am from the philippines and i have flown RC planes (mostly trainers; glider, micro skyhunter, scratch build) and i am stepping up to EDF. Would the 90mm f-22 standard version work for me? Just like james mentioned in the reviews it's a trainer? Please enlighten me if i am making the right or wrong decision.

[Grossman56]

It could be, I haven't any experience with it, but the E Flite Viper is nicknamed the Apprentice of EDF's, you might want to look at that first. I started with the Avanti and it's a great first jet as well.

Grossman56