I have a red bull corsair(beautiful plane!) from horizon hobby that I just did my maiden flight on recently. I had someone takeoff and land fine with no issues. When I got the controls I was able to fly fine and reduced the power to about 15-20% or so and was close to landing however about a few feet off the ground she just dropped like a brick and the landing gear collapsed and a prop blade broke. No damage to the structure of the plane though. Got the gear fixed and new prop blade is coming in soon and should be fixed soon to fly again. I need to know if I should land with 50% power instead? I guess war birds needs plenty of speed on the landings. I am just worried about doing a hard landing. Any suggestions?
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Here is what I did and it worked for me. I'm sure a senior pilot will point us with in the correct direction. But FWIW, I went three mistakes high after trimming in the plane and on the down stretch of the field pulled back on the throttle to see where the plan departed flight. So I knew at that throttle setting it was to slow to land. The next time around ( still 3 mistakes high) I simulated a landing and found a speed where I can watch the plane descend nice and slowly. Made a quick visual mark of where the throttle setting is in my head and gave gas for another go around. Once in the pattern I shot as many approaches as I could before my timer went off. Then I made a approach to land. First time around was to slow and the plane started to depart flight, so I hit the gas and made another attempt. Second one I greased it in. Once the snow clears that is all I will do, then I will start playing with the flaps.
Hope that helps
KevinOff with one helluva roar!
AMA 1085465 -
Classic landing above the runway stall...few feet off the ground she just dropped like a brick
Just hold a little more airspeed until the wheels touch down.
FF gliders and rubber power since 1966, CL 1970-1990, RC since 1975.
current planes from 1/2 oz to 22 lbsComment
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Yes, next time just carry more speed. I have a few FMS 1400mm birds now (the Red Bull Corsair is an FMS plane); they all require about ~25%-30% throttle on my transmitter to grease the landing from level flight. However, I typically carry 50%-60% throttle into the base leg to ensure I don't stall on the turn into final, so I'm carrying a bit of residual momentum there, plus I'm typically descending from ~50 ft. or 17 meters high or so, just above the tree line, so I'm carrying a little speed from that as well.
Typically my planes will give a subtle wing rock before they drop a wing or mush over, but if just give and extra burst of throttle they settle right back in.Comment
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Almost all planes need a little power on landing. It's a matter of figuring out how much for each plane. DocComment
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Yes sir!, Ground effect will jump up and bite you low and slow. Something you can't simulate while flying higher.Originally posted by fhhuber View Post
JohnComment
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Thanks guys for the great tips. I will try to land her again soon with more power, but once the front wheels touch the ground I will kill the power.Comment
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I would suggest slowly killing the power. Carry power and speed thru touchdown along with being on the rudder. Warbirds are notorious for tip stalling due to inadequate airspeed. As previously mentioned, get up about 3 to 5 mistakes high and spend some time shooting approaches, once you know what the airplane needs you will be greasing every landing...AMA 521691Comment
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Some warbirds will drop the tail before the airspeed drops enough to keep the wing down, and can try to lift again, causing a nasty mess; for these, you have to keep the tail off the ground, until it won't stay up. Just a touch of down elevator is enough, but you have to be very careful not to nose over. In this case, lots of expo on the elevator is your friend. I've never landed a Corsair, but it is something to watch for.Comment
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Yes never slam the power( throttle) one way or the other. Tom603 is very right here. One more thing I think over looked here is you turn base into the landing( Altitude equals stored energy. As you drop in Altitude you pick up ( Air Speed), so if you start your landing from a higher altitude your going to need to bleed that (speed off somewhere). Best to not be up so high unless you know the airframe well when you enter your landing. Also a corsair nose will rise as it gets slower entering ground effect, hold the nose level if its starts to nose up. I have a Video of a 1600mm corsair landing just like I said speed it to 1:30 for the landing Its a classic mistake with the corsairOriginally posted by Tom603 View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1uB46lcMaA just speed up to 1:30 in the video
JohnComment
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As has been mentioned carry a small amount of power when landing and do not try and three point it, do a wheel landing. That's where you land on the mains, cut remaining power and the tail will settle to the runway.
I have the Hobbyzone Corsair and I made the mistake of trying to land it like my other planes, full stall. Warbirds generally hate that. :)
I've got the FMS 1700mm P-51 and it's the same, do a wheel landing and she'll be happy.Comment
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Excellent thank you everyone appreciate all of the great advice this is all very helpful! Major lesson learned will be doing power landings(25-30% throttle) with my corsair from now on! Wish they made an airspeed indicator for the RC planes so we could tell how fast the plane was moving so we can avoid a stall.Comment
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Actually, its not a power issue, its airspeed.
Let the model take a line a couple more degrees nose down and you can kill the throttle and bring it on in.
If you don't learn to land it without power, then if you have no power available for some reason you can be in trouble...
On final approach, power controls rate of descent and elevator trim controls airspeed. If CG is right, you can land without using the elevator at all.
Know where your trims need to be for a standard approach. Elevator trim for almost all aircraft needs to be changed with airspeed.
I used to demonstrate setting the trims for a slow, gentle circle, kill the engine and set the TX on the ground... let the planes land themselves. Requires a fairly large open area and a calm day. (so the plane doesn't drift too far downwind) But you can do it with most models including warbirds.
Over-controlling is your worst enemy on landing approach.
Over-controlling is the main problem for beginners in many situations...
Ground effect will ADD lift, not cause a stall. Ground effect is essentially the "squeezing" of air between the wing and the ground, improving the effectiveness of the wing. Aircraft require less power to maintain constant height in ground effect. Usually this is within 1/2 wingspan of the ground. This was used to bring a lot of 4 engine bombers back across the English Channel on as little power as one damaged engine in WWII... appx 10 ft above the waves.
Ground effect has nothing to do with the stall just above ground issue. Bringing the nose up trying to avoid the ground (and almost succeeding) might.
These stall above the runway crashes usually occur with the stall at 2 or 3 wingspans up, with the aircraft not in ground effect yet.
Even that Me-262 in the Avatar pic... I tend to bring in dead-stick from 100 ft high downwind leg, long base and final descending all the way. It takes that long to slow it down.FF gliders and rubber power since 1966, CL 1970-1990, RC since 1975.
current planes from 1/2 oz to 22 lbsComment
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That won't generally help when flying an RC plane. Each plane will have it's own stall speed (I call it "mushy" speed) and this will also depend on whether or not you're using some flaps or full flaps, whether you are going into the wind or cross-wind (which can be dangerous till you get some practice). And looking at the plane for speed won't always help either as your model's perceived speed will be usually be relative to you (or ground speed). Practice low speed passes up high in whatever landing configuration you like to use (flap position) and build in a memory for where the throttle stick is just before the plane starts to get real mushy. Do it against, with and cross-wind. When coming in and on final approach, while still a good deal above ground, I'll find ZERO throttle quickly and then move it back up to where my memory for pre-stall stick position is and work from there. It's easier for me to find a stick position on the throttle by knowing where ZERO is, without looking.Originally posted by zeo View Post
Gliding in to a landing rarely works well (unless it's a glider). Tail dragging warbird models can be the worst and EDFs, even more so.Comment
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Very good analysis. I land my FREEWING ME262 in the same way, as we have 60ft trees bordering one end of our runway. If the pilot only knows how to make a nose high power on approach, he is in trouble when forced to land deadstick, which will happen sooner than later.Originally posted by fhhuber View PostComment
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So, with the model at a safe altitude, slow it down until it has to be noticeably nose up to maintain level flight, and raise the tail; it will now start to sink. Practice slow flight like this until you are comfortable with the sink rate - that is where your throttle should be on landing, with a gentle to moderate sink rate, and tail wheel higher than the mains.Comment
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If you watched the video link I posted you can see the aircraft goes into ground effect which gives more lift, nose goes up, out of ground effect , STALLs back into ground effect and back into ground effect, out of ground effect, stall to crash. Ground effect is just what fhuber said. "Ground effect will ADD lift, not cause a stall. Ground effect is essentially the "squeezing" of air between the wing and the ground". Which does not cause the stall but if you let the new lift take your nose up you bleed your airspeed and once you come out of ground effect stall will follow. cause and effect.
JohnComment
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That was a perfect analysis JFandL.Dewey lComment
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Here's one of my earlier flights with this plane. The sun was in a bad place and lighting created dark areas. The little blip just before touch down may have been that ground effect some have been talking about. I get those very rarely now as I keep the speed up more and don't chop power until the plane is almost on the ground.
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Yes, once you have control of the sink rate with the throttle, and control of the elevator to keep the aircraft level, then you are better prepared when the ground effect kicks in. If you come in slightly nose down the last foot or so, the ground effect has less power to lift the wing. This is how I land my P-51; I basically fly it down the glide slope to touchdown, under power.Comment
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