Official XK K110 With Gyro Thread

[Aros]

Motion RC is pleased to announce our release of the XK K110 with gyro. This is the official message thread to post photos, videos, flight reviews and any questions about this super cool micro helicopter.

[DDawg]

I've been flying this and having a lot of fun with it.. I've just started playing with FPV for my gliders. Does anyone think you could make this FPV like a nano drone? The camera and transmitters for nanos look small enough and they use the same type battery. I'm just not sure how to power the XK K110 and the Camera / transmitter with one battery to save weight.
Any thoughts?

[JohnVH]

Here is me flying and 3Ding one. Start at 3:30 and buy it at MotionRC!

[cyborblades]

Well I'm a plane guy just trying to get into a little bit of helicopter flying. Got a XK k110 with x6 transmitter been having issues with stability in 6G mode. I am not an accomplished heli flyer but hovering has not been an issue. I do have a blade 230's and I want to use the micros as I progress into forward flight. In case I wreck they're a lot cheaper to replace or repair than the blade 230.
I was hoping somebody could help me with my situation. I've done everything the best I can according to the book which is very poorly written in English. I have configured my throttle curves correctly and Pitch curves. One question I have is checking and setting the rotor blades. I know that I've seen videos on the two types of settings having the blades facing back the boom and making sure they're even with each other and then moving your throttle stick all the way to the bottom and all the way to the top and adjust the distance between the blade so they're equal on the top and on the bottom. I've done this using a method I saw on YouTube which was to used pitch curve number one and five to get the distance between the upper and the lower throttle stick even.
I also followed the video and to get the both blades level at Mid throttle by using the sub trim on number 6 after setting all this up and then calibrating the gyro inside with no wind when lifting off the heli pulls hard to the right and tracks to the rear so just to try to get it to be stable I'm feeding in a terrific amount of left stick as well as front stick so I wonder if anybody can help me out with this. I'm sure there's something I'm missing or something I'm doing wrong. I see so many videos where these 110 's are so stable in 6G mode that guys ttake their hands off the radio and the helicopter will just hover in one place that's what I'm trying to achieve.
just a little more information I actually have two k110. One was crashed and the head parts were replaced and the other one was never crashed and I'm having the same problem with each which tells me of something that I'm doing wrong.
any help would be appreciated because I'm dying to get out and fly these little things.

[Beta_Grumm]

It sounds like your swashplate is not level.
When your swash is out of level, then switching in and out of 6G will tip the swash quite a bit to correct for it.
I recently rebuilt my xk k100 for the same reason.
While it was stable in 6G, it would track really hard backward and off to one side if I switched 6g off.
Likewise, if I stabilized it in 3d mode, and switched to 6G mode, it would be off as well.
I eventually solved this by calibrating and re-setting up the head, and leveling the swashplate as it did not come level from the factory.

Steps:
I first calibrated the radio sticks to center as my mid stick was quite a bit off.
I then made sure to set my throttle curve such that mid stick was 0 pitch.
I then checked to ensure servos were as centered as possible. They were.
Then, while at mid stick, with 6G off, subtrim 0, gimble trim 0, I leveled my swashplate via the linkages using a zip-tie. See video example of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSHXW9Sv1bQ
NOTE: I recommend this over eyeballing it. I found it to be a much better quality leveling result
While doing the above step, I would switch in and out of 6G mode, to see how much it would shift, as it would shift a little, and I adjusted it to be as level as possible given both modes. Again, this is with the mechanical linkages, not sub trim.
After leveling the swash mechanically, I then centered the blades parallel to the tail boom, and leveled them with each other at mid stick using subtrim. NOTE: Initially, I had to add quite a bit of subtrim to get these centered. So instead, I zeroed the subtrim and first got these as close as possible using mechanical adjustment by adjusting the linkages in or out all BY THE SAME AMOUNT EACH. This keeps the swash level, but moves the whole thing up or down to change the pitch of the blades.
I then used subtrim to finish this off.
Test it at this point before you adjust your max and min pitch. You should be able to go in and out of 6G and still hold a steady hover.


So in all that, my recommendation would be:
- Reset your subtrim and gimble trlm to 0, and level your swash mechanically via the linakages
- Re center your blades with subtrim (or mechanicaly adjustment if needed) and test.

This should get you what you're looking for.
Let me know how it goes!

[cyborblades]

Wow thanks for all this info. My biggest problem is that I am not a heli guy I'm a plane guy so throttle curves and Pitch curve just have never been part of my repertoire. My biggest issue with the XK K110 is I'm not really familiar with helicopter set up an adjustment nor am I really familiar with the XK radio

..I played with it quite a bit but my first k110 came bound and set up with the transmitter so three years ago when I first got it I knew nothing about helicopters whatsoever. I tried to read up as much as I could and go on YouTube and watch videos but my problem has become with the videos is that you never know if you can trust the video you're watching. I got myself in trouble recently I watched a video on how to set up a 110 swash plate and the individual showed you how to do it by using the pitch curve and a sub trims only to set it up. I had received help a couple years ago from a fellow on one of the forums and although I don't remember a lot of what he said I do remember that he said that you want to do most of your adjustments mechanically if possible and if you have to do some in trim then that's okay because what I was told with these Gyros if you have any transmitter trim the gyro sees that as stick input and it will try to correct for that.

I have been asking quite a bit and I've purchased a few ebooks and the second issue I'm having is that most of the people who are talking about this topic they have real helicopters not these little micros and there are many differences that I can see and believe me I am no expert. I'm barely a beginner and it's clear to see that the procedures on how to do it although your outlook and what you're looking to get to as far as settings are probably similar the way you go about it is totally ddifferent. The video that you linked me to I appreciate that because at some point I do hope I can progress enough to get a larger helicopter which at that point a lot of those procedures will definitely be able to be used as you know on the 110 it's so small and it's mostly plastic so there's a lot of play to start with. I think that I personally am not aware of any Precision way of setting yet I don't believe there is a Precision way of setting up the 110. I think you have to eyeball it.

I have learned so far that the first issue I was having was that I was trying to set the swash plate neutral in 6G mode and idle up was off so that right there was probably my biggest problem. I found a fella on helifreak that seems to be very knowledgeable with the 110 and he has spent a fair amount of time posting exact procedures and how to go about getting it level and because of that I have corrected a number of the problems that I initially posted about because my biggest problem was that I was setting it up in 6g mode. My next biggest problem is my age and my memory really stinks anymore I need to have notes so when somebody on a forum types information like you have I print it out and then that way I can go back and go over it when necessary because unfortunately age is not the nicest thing and as it comes upon us as we all will find out or have found out or will find out it's not pleasant and many of us have issues retaining what we're trying to learn.

This fella on helifreak told me that I need to have throttle cut on I need to have the gyro set at 3D and I need idle up to be on when I set up for neutral and that is what has presented the best results so far. I wouldn't say perfect but at least I've gone from not being able to get off the ground to be able to get to a hover and in some cases an almost hands off hover which is perfect.

How I do it to get my stick centered on throttle and I'm not sure if this is a proper way but without any helicopter bound I have throttle cut turned off and then I just move my throttle stick up until the LCD display is telling me it's at 50% I then see what position the stick is in with those little lines that are along each side of the travel and I make a note of what line I need to be lined up with for the radio to be exactly at 50% I have not looked into centering the sticks on this radio and not sure if I have that information if you could steer me in the right direction for that I'd appreciate it would really be nice to be able to just put the stick Midway and know that that is actually 50% which right now it isn't.

The other issues I have I am again not familiar with throttle curve and Pitch curve and I am not lazy and I don't rely on the people in the forums to teach me I do try to find the information myself first and that normally means Googling or watching YouTube videos. I'm hesitant to do YouTube videos as I mentioned previous is that I've got some bad information from YouTube videos and being that I'm not that knowledgeable yet I really don't know which one I should go by so there is a problem. Then I have to take whatever information I can find by Googling or going on a forum and I have to admit I've got wrong information that way as well.

So what I've done is I have set the throttle curve and the pitch curve according to XK is recommendation but after watching a slew of videos apparently many say that those are not the best for beginners and I am strictly a beginner. My progress so far has been having never flown a heli and going from that to hovering and that's basically where I'm at right now. If I have an opportunity to do it without wind and using the 6G mode I can hover and I can keep it consistently in a small box and I'm still working on orientation. My next move is to get hovering with orientation . Right now I'm doing Tail in and I've done some side profile I need to do more side profile and then nose in and I need to work on that.

I have 2 k110 because when I bought them they were so inexpensive I would have been foolish not too. I was able to buy the ready to fly kit which had the helicopter batteries and the radio for $69 and then I was able to buy just the helicopter alone for $49 so I purchased the one kit and a second heli just to have spares and then I purchased a ton of spare parts so the great part about the 110 is very inexpensive and that's great.

I was told way back whenever that larger helicopters are much easier to learn on because of their stability compared to the small micros. The trade-off there is if you crash the cost to repair go significantly higher. But I had some credits on Horizon Hobby so I ended up buying a blade 230's a larger heli. My intention was not to take it out until I mastered hovering and was able to do forword flight but as many know I'm sure when you have it sometimes you just got to use it. At one point about two years ago I took out the blade 230's. At that point I was able to hover with just tail in orientation which was fine for me at the time but that's not an inside the house helicopter. I brought it outside and unfortunately here in Florida I very rarely ever find a calm day and I was in my backyard the wind came up and it just took the helicopter for a ride. Not a big deal I always keep them about 3 to 4 feet high when I'm learning it did increase altitude slightly and it did find its way into the neighbors privacy fence but the only damage I had was a Broken Blade. I checked everything else out and everything seemed fine because the one thing I learned early on was when you're in trouble hit the throttle cut which apparently has saved me more times than I can mention.

I have to admit I really enjoyed the larger heli over the micros because it was much more stable it had a larger presence it was easier for me to visually keep track of and overall I enjoyed it much more. I know I was lucky and I know had I really wrecked it would have been probably the cost of several 110 to repair it so since that has happened it's been on the shelf. I'm patiently waiting until I can get more comfortable with hovering and orientation as well as some forward flight and of course that would have to take place in the Wind.

Sorry for this extensively long post but I wanted to try to give you all the information that I have everything that I've tried and what I have learned. I also wanted to thank you for your help and although I am in a much better place with the helicopters I'm still battling the lack of knowledge on operation of the helicopters. I know the basics of how they work but when it gets into the electronic mixing with the radios that's where I'm really lost.

I purchased some eBooks from Jack Salt who seems to be a very knowledgeable pilot and has been flying for years but his ebooks are all using for 400 500 and 600 series helicopters which to me that's a real helicopter and these micros are kind of like toys and most of the Distributors call them toys. I see it as a tool to teach me so I can go and have the real deals at some point.

I was curious if you might be able to help me with what you would consider to be good beginner throttle and Pitch curve settings for the X6 radio. Right now the most I do is 6 G flight probably will be that way for a while the stock pitch curves are a little bit aggressive for me and I do have Expo set at -30 on Channel 1 and 2 and channel 4 00. I have gyro set at either 80 or 90% to try to calm things down so if I got some good throttle and Pitch curves beginner Style that would be fantastic and I'll try to use those.

If I can ask and I guess it could be a stupid question but on the X6 radio would you be able to tell me what each Channel controls? That's something I'm not familiar with and unlike my Spectrum Radio that I have for my airplanes I can tell what channel does what because I can monitor the channel. On the X6 I don't believe you can I haven't been able to find how. It would be helpful as I'm trying to learn throttle Curves and Pitch curves to know which channel operates what part of the helicopter

Wow tons to read sorry. Thanks for your help. I am learning more every post.

[Beta_Grumm]

Whoof!
That was an adventure. :D
Great stuff. Great post. Let me step through this and see if I can offer any help to your questions/observations.

First of all, you're right. The micro sized helicopters can be harder to learn on because they are so small and light. This makes them quite responsive and "touchy" or "twitchy". They also respond poorly to the slightest breeze.
But on the flip side, their small size and cheap cost makes them much less intimidating, and much more approachable to a beginner.
Also, the small size makes them usable indoors which helped me a LOT as I was able to gain a lot more flight time/hover practice out of the wind.

Like you, I saw the micro helicopter as an inexpensive, and while maybe a little difficult, but still reasonable way to learn my way around the basics of RC collective pitch helicopters. And that has proven correct! So I fully support your approach.
My little XK k100 has taught me more than I could have imagined. And it has taken an absolute beating in the process.

Also, it sounds like you're on the right track with your practice: hovering in different orientations. Good work. Keep up that practice and eventually, one day you'll be out flying and you'll suddenly realize "I've totally got this" and you'll be making circuits in no time.
Then, because it's so inexpensive, you'll attempt your first roll or flip.
Personally, I just started practicing my inverted hover. That's a whole new ball game.

All that to say I'm a huge fan of these little helis.

Anyways, to address your questions:

my problem has become with the videos is that you never know if you can trust the video you're watching

I can relate. I read/watched a lot of information, slowly jelling it all together in my brain before I was able to weed out the info that either didn't apply to wasn't quite right. Not to mention all the new stuff that you're not sure what to do with at all.
John Salt's site, rchelicopter.com, has been great. I've really appreciated his content.
Yes, he tends to work with larger craft, but even though these are micro sized, the concepts still apply. These are real collective pitch helicopters.

The only big difference in information and detail I've noticed from all the articles/videos I've read and watched is that the micros do not allow you to adjust the the length of the linkages that connect from the swash to each blade. They are fixed pieces. So some of the head building/adjusting is not applicable to them. Things like blade tracking we can't do as we can't adjust the pitch of individual blades. But I haven't found that to be an issue. As you said, they are small, plastic and don't need to be 100% precise. Good enough is good enough.

On that note, about the zip-tie video I linked, I have used a zip-tie to level my swashplate on my k100. Same size as your k110. It works really well. So our micro helicopters might be small, but using a small zip tie just like in that video is just as effective as on a larger craft.
In terms of precision, I think a good, level swashplate and eyeballing your blades when you are lining them up at mid stick is pretty precise and will serve a micro sized heli quite well.

Ok. Moving on.

my biggest problem was that I was setting it up in 6g mode

This fella on helifreak told me that I need to have throttle cut on I need to have the gyro set at 3D and I need idle up to be on when I set up for neutral and that is what has presented the best results so far.

These are both correct. Setting to 3D mode turns off the auto level. Which means it's not altering your swashplate artificially. Also, the pitch curve in 3D mode is probably going to be closer to having an actual center at mid stick as you can probably tell if you look at the default pitch curves in the manual.

NOTE: When you're messing with all this and moving your throttle, I would strongly recommend disconnecting your motor wire.
I can't tell you how many times I forgot to have my throttle hold engaged and I went to move my collective pitch up or switch into 3D mode (which is max throttle) and the heli spooled up and basically crashed.
I did a little damage before I broke down and just unplugged the motor.

And I think this brings us to our first question:

How I do it to get my stick centered on throttle

First I would calibrate your sticks. Mine came from the factory such that the stick thought it was max when it was only about 70% of the way up and it thought middle was somewhere around 30% up. Not good.
This process is technically described in the controller user manual, (page 13, section 5) however I found it almost impossible to decipher and had to look it up on the internet.
So here's how calibrate you stick:
- Start with the controller turned off
- Press downward and hold the throttle/elevator trim button and power on the controller. Release the trim button.
- You are now in calibration mode
- Now move you sticks to the max and min in each direction fully.
- When you've moved all the sticks to their full range, center your sticks, and press the throttle/elevator trim button down once.
- Your calibration settings are now saved.
Video example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z94ZBtG6Q4w

Ok now your stick knows where the middle should be. Now you need to make sure your pitch curve is set to be 50% at the middle. (which will be flat or 0 degrees. 0% pitch curve is full negative pitch, 100% on the pitch curve is full positive pitch whatever those degrees end up being)

- Turn on your radio
- Hold "Mode" button to enter your menu
- Cycle down to the P. Curve option
- Click the wheel
- Now turn your wheel until the number "3" blinks. Click the wheel.
- Now the percentage value is blinking. Use the wheel to set this to "50"
- Exit all the way out.
Now you should be able to move your throttle/elevator stick to be in line with the middle line on the controller, and you should have 0 pitch once everything is adjusted. This is your calibrated and true mid stick.

This is a good time to jump into throttle curve and pitch curve. (I'll do my best here not to ramble and make everything confusing)
This topic is intimidating and part of that is because that answer to "what should I set it to?" is really up the pilot.
But first, just be aware of a few things:
- 3D mode and 6G mode each have their own set of throttle curve and pitch curve settings. (Also Gyro sensitivity values) So you'll want to set these values for each mode. You can see this if you flip the 6G switch back and forth while you're in the menu, the values will probably change.
- Because the X6 is a pretty simple radio, it doesn't give us a visual graph. Instead it represents the graph with 5 numbers: 1 though 5. If you picture a Cartesian graph, number 1 is all the way to the left on the x plane. number 3 is in the middle, and number 5 is all the way to the right on the x plane. 2 and 4 are in their respective places.

I say this because I'm going to recommend a simple linear pitch curve for 3d mode. This is easiest for doing adjustments (rebuilding the head), but I also happen to like it for flying. I also remove any expo. I like just a straight line. It's easiest for my brain and thumbs to think about. A linear curve is, in my opinion a good place to start and make adjustments from.

In the X6 radio, a linear pitch curve means numbers 1 - 5 would have the following values:
1 - 0
2 - 25
3 - 50
4 - 75
5 - 100
Where 1 represents the stick all the way down, 5 represents the stick all the way, and 3 is the stick positioned in the middle.

Throttle curve is represented in the same way, but in 3d mode, the throttle looks really goofy if you're not used to it.
This is because your throttle stick has two channels on it:
- one for the throttle
- one for pitch
For 3D maneuvers, you want basically the throttle to be spooled up all the time. Regardless where you move the stick to. This way all that stick has to be concerned about is changing the pitch. That allows you to flip the heli upside now, move the stick all the way down and this now generates negative pitch, but since the heli is upside down, it's now positive lift. All the while the throttle is still maxed out. You don't want the throttle to drop just because you moved the stick into the minimum position because you want to keep flying.

So throttle curve in 3d mode can be all 100s technically. It'll just always be on, and always maxed.
I actually taper my throttle curve off a bit in the middle. Like this:
1 - 100
2 - 95
3 - 90
4 - 95
5 - 100
This means, when the throttle stick is in the lowest position, the throttle is at 100%. When it's at mid stick, the throttle is at 90% and when the stick is all the way up, the throttle is 100%.
The purpose for me setting it like this is to back off on the head rotation a little bit while I'm flipping the heli over and changing pitch direction. I'll be honest, I don't have enough experience with this to know how much of an affect it has, or whether I like it this way. This was more or less a result of research and taking the best of what I was reading and what made sense to start with.

Ok, now 6G mode.
6G mode is your simple, easy flying mode. Nice calm circuits. Fun, normal helicopter style flying. No inversions or stunts.
Given this, you don't really need a lot of negative pitch as you won't be upside down.
So I set my pitch to be flat for the first 50% of my stick movement. This is my throttle up movement. I don't want the blades to be pushing down as hard as they can while spooling up if they don't need to be, It just drags on the motor.
Pitch curve for 6g mode:
1 - 50
2 - 50
3 - 60
4 - 75
5 - 100
This curve basically allows me to throttle up (I'll talk about throttle for 6G in a second) for the first half of my stick movement and the blades are flat. They aren't lifting, and they aren't pushing down into the ground.
Then at mid stick, 3, I'm starting to give a little positive pitch. Just starting to lift off the ground. From there to the rest of the way, it's almost linear.

The throttle curve for 6g:
1 - 0
2 - 50
3 - 95
4 - 100
5 - 100
This is setup to go from zero throttle, to almost full throttle in the first half of my stick movement. This is so that I can spool up to max speed before I start adding pitch. After mid stick, my throttle remains at max and everything is happening in the pitch curve.

All of these values can be adjusted to whatever you want.
I found this to make the most sense to me as a beginner, and provided a nice place to experiment from. And by all means, make adjustments from here and see what it does. Honestly it won't take long and you'll have your own preferences as well.

Ok. Hopefully I haven't completely confused you. I know that was pretty wordy.
Oh. In terms of gyro, you'll have to play with this, but I have tried both a high value for this and a low value for my 6g mode, and I personally have found I like 50% though I started on 70%. Any higher and it responded to slow to my commands. I think this is 100% up to you. Fiddle with those values and see how it responds. Basically I started with 70% as it was most comfortable, but as I progressed, I found I liked a little more response and a little less help so I lowered it to 50%.
When I'm in 3d mode I have it set to 25%. I've found that turning it any lower than 20% (at least on my model) made it respond poorly. So even for 3d flight I like to have it at least at 20% or it just doesn't fly right.
Again, this is going to be up to your model and how comfortable you are and these values will probably change as you get more comfortable.

Next question:

on the X6 radio would you be able to tell me what each Channel controls?

Absolutely. And this is NOT a stupid question. It took me a while to figure these out and I didn't really figure it out until I hooked up the controller to my Helicopter simulator and had to map it all in there.
X6 channels:
1 - Aileron - Two side servos, tilts swash left and right.
2 - Elevator - All three servos, tilts swashplate forward and back
3 - Throttle - Increases/decreases main motor speed.
4 - Rudder - increases/decreases tail motor speed (we don't have variable pitch tails on our micros)
5 - Gyro toggle - changes between 6g/3d mode which is basically two sets of gyro values
6 - Collective Pitch moves all three servos to raise or lower the swashplate to change the pitch of both blades
7 and 8 are the throttle hold and dual rates I THINK. I haven't exactly pinpointed which is which. But I guess it doesn't really matter as you don't really adjust them.
Note that channel 3 and 6 are both on your throttle stick while flying in mode 2. It took my brain a while to make that connection for whatever reason, but there you go.

OK.
I think I've worked through your post. Please ask me to clarify anything that doesn't make sense. Or let me know if I missed a question of yours.
I hope you're getting some flying time.

[Beta_Grumm]

Oh. I will say, in terms of "beginner setups", try playing with your rates.
A pitch and throttle curve are all well and good, but if you want to reduce that "twitchyness" or not have it be so touchy, reduce your rates a little and see how that feels.
This was another place, similar to the gyro adjustment for 6G, where if it's set too high, it's just crazy, but if it's set too low, I found that it wasn't responsive enough and was too sluggish.

So give it try and see if turning them up or down makes your model a little more comfortable to handle.
Cheers.

[cyborblades]

All I can say is wow your information is so precise and to the point and I actually can understand it and this is wonderful. I'm an old dog so it's hard to learn new tricks not impossible it just takes a lot longer to sink in.

I used to be a creative thinker I was an aerospace Machinist 40 years ago and I used to love challenges I used to love the process of taking a chunk of metal and turning it into a useful part that's going to either be carrying passengers on a jet or Canada air turboprop commercial line or a marine hovercraft or Huey helicopter yes it was that long ago. I worked for Avco Lycoming and during the Vietnam war the Huey gunship had an Avco T53 gas turbine engine. That was something when you knew you were making parts for our guys overseas where their lives depended on it as well as commercial work and then eventually I was doing R&D way back then on the experimental battle tank which was called the XM1 which is now the Abrams battle tank. Avco Lycoming was the one who designed the gas turbine engine that powered it and that's what I was working on a 1500 horsepower short shaft gas turbine which I believe it still has today not Avco there gone but the same engine I think. Way back then Chrysler was the one who designed the main tank now I think General Dynamics has the whole deal.

I was once somebody who was quick on the mind and good with my hands and now not so much of either but it doesn't make me like it any less.

I have printed out your explicit explanation which I can't thank you enough for so I'll have it every time I need to do something and forget what I need to do.

I'm going to go out and try setting the curves as you mentioned. I have already been playing with the rates because I found that 100% was way too responsive and Twitchy and even 80% was too much for me so I backed it down to 70 and it did tame it quite a bit.

It's going to take me a minute to comprehend everything you have written and I'm going to go through it and I'm going to test as I go and find what works the best for me at this point. I'll probably have to work with it for a little bit and see how it all comes out.

I'm telling you John Salt has got to be unbelievably smart and comprehensive with helicopters. I bought a couple of his ebooks and printed them out and they were literally works of art it's clear he has put so much time into them and I agree with you that the collective pitch helicopter it functions exactly the same but I guess the point I was making was that most of his explanations and pictures are all with the much larger class helicopter where he's using large tools and calibration method that will never work with these micros. I did look at the video for the wire tie and that was a pretty slick deal fast and simple and believe me it's going to be much more accurate than my old eyes that's for sure.

I got to ask probably the most stupid question yet what is up with this forum. I'm using my Android phone and each time I have to either go put in a . Or make a correction if I misspelled or if I hit the wrong button and on its own the stupid system goes and changes the wording the letters it just totally messes it up and then I have to go back two and three times and redo the words. It's getting very frustrating when I post these year-long post which I do apologize for and maybe this is karmas way of saying I should cut it out. Is there something I can change or turn on or off that will prevent this from happening? it literally takes me hours to write one of these posts that maybe should only take me 55 minutes. 😜

I am going to work through everything you have written and try it's going to take me a bit but I will gladly come back and let you know what has worked what hasn't and more than likely open the door for a bunch more new questions because you know every action has an equal and opposite reaction and that works for questions as well so whenever I try something new the results maybe something that I'm going to have to question again but I guess that's how we learn I just wish I could remember more of it. In my case that's what printers are for.
Thanks a bunch. Be back soon to update.

[Beta_Grumm]

You're more than welcome.
I've learned so much by reading helpful information posted by others. It's great to be able to share experience and learn from the experience of others.
Boy, if I lived closer to Florida, I'd have you over and we'd be flying helis/planes and I'd be picking your brain about your mechanical experience from your career.
You can't do that kind of thing and not have a treasure trove of random tidbits of interesting information.

To answer your android question, that sounds like the standard auto-correct keyboard system. It can be a bit of a pain, for sure.
I think there's a way to turn that off, however, I would personally find that more difficult as I tend to fat finger keys due to inaccuracy of typing on the phone. And I personally find that it's quicker to rely on the suggestions it gives. But it's not perfect by any means.
Typing all that out on a phone is going to be painful no matter what, I think. :D
Props to you for the patience to do it.
Here's an article with steps to turn that off, or generally change settings of your android keyboard: https://www.lifewire.com/turn-off-au...ndroid-4590304
I tested this on my phone and it looks fairly up to date. So it should get you what you're looking for.

At any rate, I'm still learning right along with you. (I even corrected a few of my own misunderstandings while typing all that out)

Bringing this all back to the XK K110, I'm hoping to get this exact model as a bind 'n fly later this year. (Allowance willing)
I think the brushless motor over the brushed motor of the k100 will be a big bonus.
I'll make sure and post how it goes.

[cyborblades]

I actually have two of the K-110s I think I mentioned it and my very first one has always been a reliable one. I had purchased the second one because I just got it so inexpensively and I figured why not have a spare. Well that one has never been right from the beginning. I went ahead and adjusted my curve on both throttle and pitch and I did dial back the Dual rates.

The first bird I tried it on was my old reliable and it has always been easy to hover in 6G mode and it continues. I did fine though with the throttle and Pitch curves that you suggested it seems to be oh I don't know more loose I guess it does more and I don't know what you guys call it I always call it head on a swivel basically since a helicopter is hanging on the blades and basically the shaft is the point wear it hangs so it kind of articulates from there and that's a problem I've always had some trouble with other helis because it was always kind of like a pendulum swinging. Since I put these Curves in I can't say I noticed a tremendous difference but it is doing that pendulum movement more so than it was before so I'm going to try to put the curves back where they were and see if it goes back to the way it was and then if it does I know I just have some changing of the throttle and Pitch curves through trial-and-error probably will take care of that.

The one thing I can say is that it seems like there is far less load on the blades when you spin it up compared to how it was before so I like that so I'm just going to need to find out which curves to change to possibly get it a little more stable.

My newest 110 which is one that has never crashed haven't used it much but it's always sort of a headache with the gyro and after my two years of non-use with these things just sitting on the shelf that has not changed. I've tried everything and anything to get that corrected and there are times when I can get it to hover almost hands-free in 6G which I had that just a few days ago and now I went and fired it up last night and it's back to doing the same garbage it was doing before where I can't even get it off the ground because the gyro is pulling the heli so far to the right as soon as you start getting lite on the skids that the blafes hit the floor and even if you try to yank it off you can't because the more power you put to it the harder it wants to drive to the right. I've always felt that I've had a bad board which would mean a bad gyro and I've had others tell me that's probably not the case they have never had that with this heli. They say it's got to be linkage or mechanical in nature. I'm not a heli person I hopefully may get there at some point but through trial-and-error I'm thinking that I have definitely a bad board. I've seen that since day one with this heli so I've ordered a board from motion RC and when it gets here I'm going to swap it out and that'll be the ultimate test and I've got my fingers crossed that it's going to fix it because if it doesn't then I just wasted money on a board I may never use.

You mentioned you're going to be looking for a 110. I was looking on banggood the other day. I'll have to tell you I'm not a fan of banggood any longer I've had some real bad dealings with them that's a whole nother story for a whole nother forum.

Anyway I was just looking to see about parts for the 110 and I came across a number of sellers selling the ready to fly and ftr versions there was a seller that was listing a ftr ready version just a heli for $49 and I think it had $3 shipping to the US so I'm thinking it's cheaper to buy that than it is to buy spare parts for the heli so I went to order it as much as I hate banggood.

I paid for it and then I was notified about five minutes later that the heli is out of stock even when it was in stock when I made the purchase and I paid for it and it was in stock then 10 minutes later it's not in stock so of course it upset me and since I've had many other bad dealings with banggood I figured I'm just going to cancel the order because it's going to be more trouble than it's worth. I go on to their chat and somebody comes on and basically just tells me that well they thought it was in stock but then it wasn't and don't worry about it I should have it in 90 days. Well I don't want to wait 90 days so I said that I'm just going to ask for a refund because it was supposed to be in stock and if I had known it was going to take 90 days to get to me I never would have bought it. This person comes back and tells me they're sorry but I have to wait I can't get a refund I have to wait 90 days. Of course now I was getting upset and I told them either you refund it or I'm just going to contact my credit card and have it disputed and they'll reverse the charges. At that point they immediately got all excited and said no no no don't do that we'll refund and I got the refund.

I guess my point is you can have one of those cheap if you look around and you can deal with the Chinese websites. Motion RC sells a ftr version I think for $89 which is a bit more than you can get it on most other Chinese websites even the better Chinese websites. I understand that they're importing them and they have to make a few dollars on it but on a cheap heli like the 110 I probably go buy it off of Chinese website because you can literally save $40 over motion price.They do pretty good on most things but on this inexpensive stuff I guess they're just not a lot of profit margin and hey there in business to make a profit. I don't knock them for it it's just that the purchaser has to be aware and buy where they know they can get the best deal.

I just wanted to touch on my big problem with this correction garbage going on with the Forum. I'm aware of the Android spell checker and I do use it. Either thats causing a headache with the forum page because I use it all the time on emails and text messages and it works fine it doesn't put in garbled letters.

I believe the problems is with the forum because if I make a correction and I delete some letters because I always use the talk-to-text feature on my phone and it doesn't work right all the time so I end up going back and fixing it when I delete some letters in a sentence or word in the sentence and then I enter in from the keyboard the proper letters or word that I want to use and then when I hit the spacebar to space it out to the next word it just puts in all kind of garbled letters and whatever so it's definitely something with the forum. It could have something to do with my spell checker on my phone but that's the problem.

I changed what Forum message version apparently you have the option to a different version. When I did that it's happening far less so it's definitely something with the forum.

I just wanted to put that out there in case other people are trying to do the same thing pulling their hairs out too and in my case I don't have many hairs left to pull out so every hair I pull is another one I'll never get back kind of like brain cells. 🤔

[Beta_Grumm]

I've ordered a board from motion RC and when it gets here I'm going to swap it out and that'll be the ultimate test

Let me know. I'll be really interested to hear how that turns out.

I'll have to tell you I'm not a fan of banggood any longer

I have a few friends who have ordered quadcopter equipment from Banggood and they have reported mixed results. Sometimes it's fine. Other times your stuff arrives broken. Or very very late.
I personally have been really gun shy about it. Especially since some of the items, when comparing prices, end up being about the same price as motionrc after shipping. (It depends on the item. Maybe only $10 difference)
So far the prices on the items I wanted were so close, it was far worth it to me to have it purchased and shipped from a dependable, US based, shipping source. Motionrc has been really good with shipping so far.
But, like you said,

the purchaser has to be aware and buy where they know they can get the best deal.

Thanks for the tips. I appreciate it.

I changed what Forum message version apparently you have the option to a different version. When I did that it's happening far less so it's definitely something with the forum.

Ah hah! Very interesting. That's new information to me.

[cyborblades]

It was so weird I was actually reading an article on the k110 when I got notified that you had posted a response and I thought that maybe if you don't know this I'll actually be bringing some info to the table it'll make me feel important but on a serious side I was looking at a review that was done on the k110 and the person was going into how to tame it and they gave their suggestions for pitch and throttle curve but they also gave the suggestions on the Dual rates.

I know you mentioned that. I just found out that when you're setting duel rate you actually have to literally set them with the sticks because it will set it for both sides of the stick so on your right stick you would pull the stick to the left and set your dual rate pull it to the right and set your dual rate push it up and pull it down. I personally did not know that all I did was set the Dual rates to the one figure like 80% or what have you and thought that was going to handle it all over and apparently it doesn't. I'm going to give that a try this evening and see if I can make some Headway.

Just so you know if you wonder why I'm doing this all at night well I'm not doing it outside because here in Florida we're still getting some crazy wind but I have a room that it used to be wide open and I actually used to fly these helis in this room it's about 500 square feet with about a 12-foot high ceiling and it was wide open so that was fantastic it was kind of my training room when I was doing it. Well as we all have life kicking Us in the butt I ended up putting the helis up for 2 years and by the time now that I'm getting back to it that room is no longer empty. I have carved out a little spot for myself that's about six foot by 4 foot and I can keep these easily within that space. But if I don't I have hell to pay because I have hazards Galore if I cannot contain the heli within the 6 by 4 space then I'll be ripping it to shreds because there's Furniture and machines and everything else that is going to rip into and it probably will destroy itself so that gives me an incentive to make sure I keep it within that box. So far I've been lucky except for that one that won't even get off the ground so I'm going to try and change that board and I will let you know because it does work at times and then sometimes it won't so I'm thinking it's just bad.

[cyborblades]

Well I'm back and I just wanted to let you know I tried these pitch curves that was suggested in the article I read and oh boy are they great okay for beginners in 6G mode assuming especially when you're just learning to do hover and orientation like I am but it is fantastic I mean it's just like night and day so I want to put it here so others that might read this could try it and see if they like it.

Tcurves 0,32,65,65,65
Pcurve 40,45,50,65,80
Dual rates 50% all. And these need to be set for each side of the stick so if you're working on the right stick your setting the Dual rates for each side so you would pull the stick to the left and set it for 50% push the stick to the right set that for 50% pull the stick down set that 50% and push the stick up and set that 50% I personally was totally unaware that's how you did it now many may know that I personally did not I would just set my dual rates at whatever it would be and I think I was at 80 and 100 and in this instance you want to set both low and high 50% like I mentioned and it definitely makes a difference.

[Beta_Grumm]

Wow. I had no idea that's how dual rates worked.
This is news to me. Thank you for posting it.
I'm going to test it out.

[Beta_Grumm]

I assume this is the post you found: https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...s-two-sides%21
This is gold. Thank you for sharing.

[cyborblades]

No actually that wasn't the post . The post I found it was actually on a Blog and I'll try to go back through my browsing history and find it and then I'll list it here but good info that you found. When I initially was trying to resurrect these little 110s I was looking for all the information I could find and this I had not seen. There's so much info out there on the 110 and many videos but as I stated before you just don't know which ones to believe but some even with my minimal knowledge you can tell probably know what they're talking about.

[cyborblades]

I did want to mention I did the stick calibration like you had described and also it's the same as in the article you just linked too. Unfortunately even after doing that my transmitter the throttle mid stick if you look at the little lines on each side of the stick instead of the stick location being mid-way when it's actually at 50% it's about 1 and 1/4 lines before mid-way and that's how it was before I did the calibration and it remains that way after I did the calibration. Not quite sure what's up with that don't know if there's a mechanical setting that needs to be adjusted but it stayed that way and that is a little bit of a a pain.
The way I found where mid stick was by not having any heli bound to the radio just turn the radio on and with throttle hold off just push the stick up until the LCD registers 50 on the screen and that's where I'm assuming the 50% is on this radio but like I said using the little hash marks on each side it corresponds to about one and a quarter marks before the mid-way point.

[Beta_Grumm]

The numbers you see on the radio pertain to your cruves, so if your curve hits 50% before your mid stick, that may be what you're seeing. Mine usually shows the throttle curve percent.

On the rates issue, I'll be darned.
Sure enough. I went in and check the rates of the three different channels and they were different depending on direction.
Which explains some things I had noticed flying lately. For example, my forward cyclical felt much softer than every other direction. That's because the rates were lower for forward that every other direction.
Thanks again for sharing.

[cyborblades]

Well I'm certainly happy that I was able to offer some help because I've been on the receiving end and I really appreciate it but I'm glad I could do that.

Secondly you had mentioned about the tthrottle. You said that's the curves so it would be 50% so what you're saying is that when I calibrated the throttle that it should have been calibrated to Mid on the stick and obviously I would have no way of knowing that so if that is the case I need to go and readjust my fly bar because what I did is when I brought my blades even together when I was adjusting that I did it at the point where I saw a 50% come up on the radio and I thought that was 50% of the throttle so I need to go back and do that if I'm understanding this correctly.