Anyone else out there prefer to not have any stabilization??

[PappaBear]

I prefer the reference of progress in technology to cheating by the use of a gyro. I learn't to fly many years ago without the aid of gyro or any form of artificial stabilization. However if it had been available back in the 1960s I would have used it. Certainly it can make the flying a little easier and I'm all for things to be a little easier, especially as I get older and the brain starts to slow down and the reactions are not quite as quick as they used to be. I've also flown R/C using an autopilot where by the model will fly all on its own and even fly a predetermined flight path. This can take some of the fun out of R/C, but if you want an accurate flight path for some reason. Then this is the thing to use.

If you like the challenge of aerobatics, using a gyro for example would be considered cheating and no form of artificial stabilization is allowable in aerobatic competitions. It's just the pilot and the aircraft against the elements of nature.

In a helicopter a gyro is considered a must and they have been essential for a long time for stable flight.

Martin.

[VOODOO]

My original question was stated as using a gyro AFTER you became a competent flyer, and the cheating reference was that you are cheating YOURSELF out of the experience of sharpening your skills. I am taken aback by some of the rants this statement provoked, and this was not my intent. I AM NOT A TROLL!!!!

[Dewey H Lee]

Shoot I'm all for making my flight experience more enjoyable. I've found being able to fly my foam airplanes in winds I would normally only fly my nitros more enjoyable. I do the flying not the gyro. Landings is really the deciding factor in the winds that I enjoy. By no means your not a troll. Everyone has there own opinion and you are definitely entitled to yours.

[Hippie 64]

I think Retiered Flyer put it best , I fly to have fun and if it helps that's what he does . I've never thought of it that way til I read his post . I learned without it and to be honest I'm scared to try it .
Being that I am alone without a club any closer than a hour , I'm not sure if I would set it up correctly . I guess that's my biggest fear in trying one . I'm sure it would help in many situations but adding to a plane that may get destroyed is a scary thing to do .


Bryan

[fhhuber]

I have 2 planes that have gyros in them... out of over 100.

I experimented with earlier auto-leveling systems also.

Generally, I find I don't need the gyros even in weather conditions that would have most people packing up.

I did a lot of slope soaring at a location where wind was strong enough to toss an overweight fiberglass finished Sig Kougar off (just remove the prop and don't put fuel in) with confidence that there was enough lift. 25 knots gusting to 35 doesn't bother me if the plane can make reasonable forward progress into the wind.

If I find a gyro that can detect a stall and deal with it properly, I'd be more likely to use it. The ones I have will "fight the stall" which is just about guaranteed to cause a spin with the only way to recover being to turn the gyro off.

[Dewey H Lee]

I can understand that Bryan. A lot of the guys in my club do not use gyros and as far as I know I was one of the first to show up with them. After checking out my planes and flying them they were impressed. So I was more or less on my own also setting mine up. A lot of people that speak of flying in higher winds than normal I don't think are flying planes that have retracks. Most are probably speaking of fixed gears. Something that a rather hard or bouncy landing does not rip out. If they are there spending time fixing and buying landing gear. That's why when the winds are over 15 I'll only fly my nitro fixed gear planes because the weight and the fixed gear handle those conditions better. But the gyro on my foam planes with the gyros definitely help me land a lot better in winds up to 15. I am no professional by no means but landings are something I have always practiced and pride myself on. Have only one plane with self righting on and have never used it other than to show someone how it works. Good flights Bryan.

[Capt. Crunch]

Hi Bryan, I was hesitant trying one because of the set up too. But Pilot Ryan has an excellent step by step set up vid. Its actually a piece of cake to install. Without that video, I probably would have never tried one. Best part is you can shut it off whenever you want.

[VOODOO]

I love to fly in the wind. Today, logged 4 flights(only had 4 batteries) in 20mph with higher gusts. 2 flights on AIRFIELD 1450mm ZERO with flaps and retracts, one each on DYNAM PITTS and DYNAM TIGER MOTH. Putting the plane into a stalled nose up attitude and trying to maintain zero forward speed using throttle, is to me an enjoyable challenge. Doing the standard aerobatic maneuvers while compensating for wind is also fun to me. I firmly believe that you will never learn to fly in wind if you don't fly in wind. It also makes for many more flying days.

[Grossman56]

Hey Bryan, I have them in every plane I own, with the exception of the new Mustang which will get one eventually. I'm not afraid to fly without one, but the crispness of the controls really appeals to me.
I never maiden with a gyro on for the very reason that I might not have it set up correctly. Get her up to three mistakes worth of altitude, turn the gyro on and off. If, for that split second it does something strange, you can keep on flying or land it and adjust remember AER as in aero. Two flashes=A three flashes=E four flashes =R.
If the airplane behaves correctly when you briefly switch on, then you're good and try it out. I usually set mine at about 2/3's and I turn the 3d mode completely off (A3L"s).
Most guys that are hesitant love them once they've tried them, some use them strictly for take off or landing.

Grossman56

[rtwatkins]

I think part of the assumption is that a gyro will fly the plane, instead of you. This is FAR FAR from the truth. A gyro will assist, but you still can't just put the TX down and watch it fly. You STILL have to fly the plane, and you STILL have to respond to adverse effects (wind, torque, ground effect, ect.)

Gyros are an aid, and you can adjust them to determine how much aid is given. How many people purchase a brand new plane... setup the bird per the manual... go out to maiden & fly it a couple times, and bugger up a landing really really bad. Or find that the stall is something horrible, and their level of skill is unable to compensate? I can tell you, the first warbird I tried was a Hobbyking Corsair. HORRIBLE first warbird. VERY fast, gear was very weak, LOVED to go into a spin from a stall, and a bunch of other things. Granted, I shouldn't have gone from a high wing trainer into a warbird (in about a week's timeframe to boot :P) but still... the plane, from my abilities, was unflyable. and, after turning two into ground spikes, I was about ready to call it quits on warbirds in general.

Then I tried an AR636 gyro/receiver

Talk about a night and day difference! Was I cheated from learning to fly the plane? NO!! it took a plane, and made it comfortable at my level. As I got better, I dialed back the gains, and in doing so I gradually learned how to fly it... without having to keep buying parts to do so. Does that mean I didn't crash anymore? NO again! LOL BUT!! it made it a flyable plane for me. I can now fly that plane without the assistance... but, it's always there if I need/want it.

Cheat or not, who cares??? if you want a gyro, and you think it will be of some benefit then go for it. The old farts at the club fields and go sit on their thumbs as far as I'm concerned with their judgement :P

[VOODOO]

I think part of the assumption is that a gyro will fly the plane, instead of you. This is FAR FAR from the truth. A gyro will assist, but you still can't just put the TX down and watch it fly. You STILL have to fly the plane, and you STILL have to respond to adverse effects (wind, torque, ground effect, ect.)

Gyros are an aid, and you can adjust them to determine how much aid is given. How many people purchase a brand new plane... setup the bird per the manual... go out to maiden & fly it a couple times, and bugger up a landing really really bad. Or find that the stall is something horrible, and their level of skill is unable to compensate? I can tell you, the first warbird I tried was a Hobbyking Corsair. HORRIBLE first warbird. VERY fast, gear was very weak, LOVED to go into a spin from a stall, and a bunch of other things. Granted, I shouldn't have gone from a high wing trainer into a warbird (in about a week's timeframe to boot :P) but still... the plane, from my abilities, was unflyable. and, after turning two into ground spikes, I was about ready to call it quits on warbirds in general.

Then I tried an AR636 gyro/receiver

Talk about a night and day difference! Was I cheated from learning to fly the plane? NO!! it took a plane, and made it comfortable at my level. As I got better, I dialed back the gains, and in doing so I gradually learned how to fly it... without having to keep buying parts to do so. Does that mean I didn't crash anymore? NO again! LOL BUT!! it made it a flyable plane for me. I can now fly that plane without the assistance... but, it's always there if I need/want it.

Cheat or not, who cares??? if you want a gyro, and you think it will be of some benefit then go for it. The old farts at the club fields and go sit on their thumbs as far as I'm concerned with their judgement :P

I don't disagree with any of your post, until your last sentence. It was uncalled for. I plead guilty to old (79), and my digestive system does sometimes generate more gas than I'd prefer, but lots of us are still active and competent flyers, and fly unaided in conditions the "gyro" boys just sit and watch. So far my thumbs have remained clean.

[xviper]

VOODOO, as you already know from our PM, I'm an "old fart" myself. My very best flying buddy just had his 79th birthday last week. We go to 3 different fields, 2 of which, we are the "old farts". I've come to know the term as more of a label of character rather of age. We have some "young" guys 1/2 our age and younger who act like they are the "old farts" purely by nature. Then we go to another field where most of us are about the same age but we can clearly see who the "old farts" are. Old farts, old and young, are what they are because of their attitude. These are the guys who feel they have to run the show. These are the guys who carry the rule book in their back pocket and are ready to whip them out to chastise someone. These are the guys who run around (and fly around) breaking the very same rules they hide behind. These are the guys, who at the monthly meetings, sit in little cliques and whisper their objectionable commentary at everything that goes on. These are the guys who won't budge in their beliefs about how things should be done.
I don't mind being called an "old fart" (nor do my buddies) so long as it's for my age and not for my stubborn beliefs and attitudes. I like to think that I can see new things and see the value of something if it aids in my enjoyment of the hobby. I try not to reject them outright and I also try not to be too hard on the "old farts" for being so unbending. Don't take offense at the term. See it for how it's being used. Notice that I used the term in this post to mean 2 very different things.

[OV10]

Old farts, old and young, are what they are because of their attitude. These are the guys who feel they have to run the show. These are the guys who carry the rule book in their back pocket and are ready to whip them out to chastise someone. These are the guys who run around (and fly around) breaking the very same rules they hide behind. These are the guys, who at the monthly meetings, sit in little cliques and whisper their objectionable commentary at everything that goes on. These are the guys who won't budge in their beliefs about how things should be done.

Hello xviper2,
+100 on your observation It is like you were a fly on the wall at some of our club meetings that sometimes I as VP have to mediate and remind them that it is all about having fun and not the BS.

[rtwatkins]

I don't disagree with any of your post, until your last sentence. It was uncalled for. I plead guilty to old (79), and my digestive system does sometimes generate more gas than I'd prefer, but lots of us are still active and competent flyers, and fly unaided in conditions the "gyro" boys just sit and watch. So far my thumbs have remained clean.

I believe that my statement said if they are being judgmental because someone is using a gyro, they can go sit on their thumbs... how is that uncalled for?? lol

being judgmental of what someone else is using to enjoy the hobby is what's uncalled for

xviper2, you hit the nail on the head brother

[VOODOO]

I believe that my statement said if they are being judgmental because someone is using a gyro, they can go sit on their thumbs... how is that uncalled for?? lol

being judgmental of what someone else is using to enjoy the hobby is what's uncalled for

xviper2, you hit the nail on the head brother

What I feel that was uncalled for was the placement that you suggested for their thumbs. My assumption was, you meant go stick your thumb up your a**. If that is not what you suggested, I apologize.

[rtwatkins]

What I feel that was uncalled for was the placement that you suggested for their thumbs. My assumption was, you meant go stick your thumb up your a**. If that is not what you suggested, I apologize.

I meant that exactly, IF they are being judgmental :P (I meant "old farts" exactly how viper said it) I have no qualms telling someone who is judging me for using a gyro to go pound sand and stick their thumbs in their a$$. It's not their place, nor is it called for for them to be judgmental.

So, to clarify... the comment isn't meant to you directly but to the jacka$$e$ at the field who feel it's their place to tell people how to enjoy a hobby, what is "cheating" to use and what isn't (unless it's a flight competition of course) that you're not a real pilot unless you scratch built the plane (yep, had those comments too) and so forth.

[VOODOO]

I meant that exactly, IF they are being judgmental :P (I meant "old farts" exactly how viper said it) I have no qualms telling someone who is judging me for using a gyro to go pound sand and stick their thumbs in their a$$. It's not their place, nor is it called for for them to be judgmental.

So, to clarify... the comment isn't meant to you directly but to the jacka$$e$ at the field who feel it's their place to tell people how to enjoy a hobby, what is "cheating" to use and what isn't (unless it's a flight competition of course) that you're not a real pilot unless you scratch built the plane (yep, had those comments too) and so forth.

Obviously, if anyone thinks to be a pilot you must construct the airplane you fly, they are delusional. If that's the case, I've been lying about my profession for over 58 years.

[xviper]

Hello xviper2,
+100 on your observation It is like you were a fly on the wall at some of our club meetings that sometimes I as VP have to mediate and remind them that it is all about having fun and not the BS.

I rarely go to that club's meetings anymore. It's just a bitch session between factions and business takes forever to get done. I wouldn't even mind it if the executive made all the decisions. I elected them, I gave them my dues and I give them permission to conduct business without my vote so long as there's transparency. Unfortunately, the rules of any official club or association is that votes must be taken. I still laugh when an old guy shows up with with a brand new foamie loaded to the nuts with electronics and some younger guy tells him he should learn to fly the thing the way it's supposed to be flown. I still haven't figured out what way that is. If it pleases you, fill your boots.

[radioflite]

I do not need it , but it is always good to stay up on current technology
I'm not going to lie ..on a gusty day it sure is nice to have .
I remember Mike McConville flying the big Hangar 9 Cap 232 and he had a gyro on the pitch and yaw...I think to aid in 3D hovering...that was a long time ago..at least 12+years .I can see were some may feel like it's cheating. Full scale pilots embrace anything that helps them get up and down as least and safe as can be .

[VOODOO]

I do not need it , but it is always good to stay up on current technology
I'm not going to lie ..on a gusty day it sure is nice to have .
I remember Mike McConville flying the big Hangar 9 Cap 232 and he had a gyro on the pitch and yaw...I think to aid in 3D hovering...that was a long time ago..at least 12+years .I can see were some may feel like it's cheating. Full scale pilots embrace anything that helps them get up and down as least and safe as can be .

What you say about embracing technology is certainly true for full scale pilots,BUT they can be lured into thinking they don't need to be an accomplished stick and rudder guy(or gal). I feel I can speak to this aspect, after flying the F101B VOODOO supersonic interceptor in the USAF, followed by flying for a major US airline for 29+ years, comprising DC6, DC7, ELECTRA, B727, B757, A300, and B767, flight time, as well as owning a PIPER CHEROKEE 180. I can point out two perfect examples where pilots were well versed enough to fly the a/c on autopilot, but not accomplished enough to recognize when something was amiss, then do the right thing to correct the situation. The ASIANA B777 accident at SFO, and the AIR FRANCE A340 one off the South American coast cost many lives needlessly.