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**Beeg** · Jul 9, 2020, 05:23 PM

So it looks like the most expensive battery has the greatest misrepresentation of your test for "C" and the RT 6250 the closest..

**Hugh Wiedman** · Jul 9, 2020, 05:51 PM

Part II:

These are the Unwitting TEST SUBJECTS:

So the true test is in the real world on an EDF. I'm certainly no EDF master and have a long way to go to even be proficient, but here are the results on several outrunners (4) and inrunners (3). The somewhat odd result as that with the outrunners I have, a higher C battery only gave marginally better performance (2-3%), but in my inrunners, the difference was more noticeable (by 7-9%), so I rightly or wrongly concluded that a higher C battery needs to be in my inrunners for optimum performance. If anyone out there can explain that, I'd appreciate it or maybe it's just a coincidence.

1) 9 Blade 80mm 3658-1856 Kv inrunner (stock in the red Avanti-but now a different fan comes with both)
-AD 6000: 96.6 Ah 2135 Watts
-RT 6250: 100.6 Ah 2424 Watts
-RT 5500: 103.0 Ah 2450 Watts
-HRB 6000: 103.0 Ah 2440 Watts

2) 12 Blade 90mm 3748-1650 Kv outrunner (Stinger 90)
-AD 6000: 102.6 Ah 2266 Watts
-RT 6250: 108.5 Ah 2473 Watts
-RT 5500: 109.6 Ah 2520 Watts
-HRB 6000: 108.5 Ah 2490 Watts

3) 9 Blade 90mm 3748-1750 Kv outrunner (in 2 F-4's and F-18 Each was slightly different, but very close so only listing 1 result)
-AD 6000: 113.5 Ah 2552 Watts
-RT 6250: 120.0 Ah 2835 Watts
-RT 5500: 121.9 Ah 2877 Watts
-HRB 6000: 119.8 Ah 2860 Watts

4) 12 Blade 90mm 4068-1835 Kv inrunner (upgraded fan in the F-16)
-AD 6000: 110.2 Ah 2446 Watts
-RT 6250: 113.7 Ah 2594 Watts
-RT 5500: 117.1 Ah 2810 Watts
-HRB 6000: 115.6 Ah 2750 Watts
-HS 8000: 115.7 Ah 2740 Watts

5) Twin 12 Blade 70mm 1850 Kv inrunners (SU-30)
-AD 6000: 117.2 Ah 2600 Watts
-RT 6250: 118.8 Ah 2650 Watts
-RT 5500: 120.7 Ah 2825 Watts
-HRB 6000: 121.4 Ah 2870 Watts
-HS 8000: 119.3 Ah 2800 Watts

There are some minor anomalies in the exact numbers of the test results, but overall, this has given me a better "feel" for the battery to use in each jet/fan (of the ones I have only).

CONCLUSIONS:

Although this may look like a "scientific" study, there is plenty of room for error, however, I could actually feel and hear the difference in each jet when comparing different brands. In actual use, that difference was mainly in how quickly it got off of grass and with flight time, but not so much in the actual "once in the air" flying. For all my outrunners and the Avanti inrunner (you can put a brick in that thing and it will fly great) I now exclusively use the RT 6250 35C. It has a decent price of $92 and good capacity with it being the lightest of the 5, although the HRB 6000 will do just as well. For the inrunners in my F-16 and SU-30 (where take-off thrust is the most important for me of the jets I have), I am no longer using the RT 5500 70C (it's a great battery, but not enough flight time so they're being mothballed) and instead I am using either the HRB 6000 (with virtually the same punch) at a cost of $84 each, or when I crave more flight time, the HS 8000, but at $179 a shot it sure puts a premium on the extra minute or more and sure put a huge dent in the wallet. Phantom suggested this battery since it fit without modifying the battery compartment and I thank him for that, cause it just barely fits in the F-16 (but if it puffs by 1mm it's back to the drawing board) and it fits nicely in the SU-30, but the extra 80 g in weight is another issue for take-off. And I think Warthog just bought 8 of these, in exchange for his loving wife (I may be in the same boat soon), and is putting 2 of them in his A-10 for something like 3 hours of flying.

The Admirals IMO need to catch up a bit with cost, weight and power. Don't get me wrong, I love Admiral batteries, they are war horses, with over 60 of them in my possession, none have ever failed of puffed (can't say that for E-Flight, Thrust, Venom and some others) and I use them exclusively in all my prop planes (4S-6S 4000 mah to 5000 mah) and they all perform great. I'm just not using the twelve 6000's (for sale cheap along with the RT 5500's) I have in my EDF's anymore.

One last thought (if this wasn't long and boring enough), of the 4 HRB's I purchased, 3 were very good but 1 (even after recycling several times) was down 30% in C and mAh in each cell (although all 6 cells were consistent) and the IR in each cell (again, all 6 consistent) was 30% higher. I immediately notified Amazon, they sent me a new 1 next day air and I sent back the "bad one". Don't know if that's a regularly occurring problem or if I just got the lucky one, but I can say that the IR meter saved me from having to turn it into an anchor.

Please, anyone going through this let me know what experiences you have and don't be afraid to tell me that I'm full of

, which is the normal response from anyone when I open my big mouth!

**Hugh Wiedman** · Jul 9, 2020, 05:56 PM

Originally posted by Beeg View Post

So it looks like the most expensive battery has the greatest misrepresentation of your test for "C" and the RT 6250 the closest..

That's true, but really didn't expect the HS to be 100C, not with 8000 mah capacity and weighing only 908 g (only 80 g more than the RT 5500). And given the dimensions, 43X68X135 I expected it to have an actual C way below what it does. I'm actually happily surprised it was that high and performs very well in the 2 EDF's I want to use it in for more flight time (see post #2 of mine for the power testing of each battery on specific EDF's). But then I guess I'm a glutton for punishment.

**xviper** · Jul 9, 2020, 06:28 PM

Wow, Hugh, that was a lot of work and a lot of flying. I hope some of it was fun as I'm sure a lot of it got tedious. I'm glad I'm not in an immediate need for batteries right now and I could wait to see your results. Good thing it was hard for me to find the HobbyStars as I think "bang for the buck", they are somewhat poor value for what little extra you might get. The HRBs are definitely worth a look when the time comes. Good job!

**Evan D** · Jul 9, 2020, 07:08 PM

Thanks for doing all the work! it's interesting to see your results but as you note it's all relative. To be more scientific you need a much bigger sample set of each pack but I know that's not really practical.

My way of doing things is to buy one that looks interesting and fly it a while and see how it performs for me. If it does well I'll buy a few more and then a few more, especially if there are sales as price is a huge influencer on my purchases. I've found that others many times don't get the same results. I try to never go below 3.8V per cell and am very throttle conscious. For example I have a dozen Hobby Star 5200 6S I use in a ton of planes and have a half dozen of the same in 2S for 8S set ups. But I understand these are not great batteries, surely not as good as the RT 5800. But they are cheap, especially on sale, very light weight, have nice dimensions that just seem to fit, and RC Juice will swap connectors for free. It all adds up the value.

I like how you included the 8000. I have a couple and no way are they even 50C. I really don't think they are even 8000. But I got mine on sale and use them now and again. 30 minutes on a war bird...

But, again thanks!

**Mizer67** · Jul 9, 2020, 07:27 PM

Thanks for the info. I love seeing real data. Where'd you get the IR meter?

**Mizer67** · Jul 9, 2020, 07:38 PM

Originally posted by Hugh Wiedman View Post

That's true, but really didn't expect the HS to be 100C, not with 8000 mah capacity and weighing only 908 g (only 80 g more than the RT 5500). And given the dimensions, 43X68X135 I expected it to have an actual C way below what it does. I'm actually happily surprised it was that high and performs very well in the 2 EDF's I want to use it in for more flight time (see post #2 of mine for the power testing of each battery on specific EDF's). But then I guess I'm a glutton for punishment.

I've been curious about the HS batteries myself. They have fantastic weights and sizes for the Mah rating each one has. I can't provide the supporting data, but what I've read on HS on another site said they were built by wiring up individual cells that were capable of ~17C each, which explains the light weight. I'm coming to respect that higher "true" C = higher weight, with current battery formulations.

None of my setups will pull more than ~120A at peak, but I'm not light on the throttle and can tell a difference in flight for batteries not holding voltage as well, or for as long.

I bought a number of CHNL batteries and the 40C Black have the highest IRs of any new batteries I've seen (44 - 48 total for the 6S pack). The 65C Black are half that (22 - 26 C total for the 6S pack), but HRBs are in the low 10-teens. I'm not impressed so far with the CHNLs, particularly the 40C's. The 65C's aren't terrible and I can tell a difference in flight.

I'm trying some of the Turnigy 60C HDs this weekend, but they're heavy for their size (+10% vs. some others). I'll see if I can tell any difference. Weight is the enemy for the type of flying I like to do right now.

**Hugh Wiedman** · Jul 9, 2020, 08:00 PM

Originally posted by Mizer67 View Post

Thanks for the info. I love seeing real data. Where'd you get the IR meter?

Got the meter at Progressive RC.com, cost $149. I'm not all that convinced it's worth it though. It definitely tells me which individual batteries and brands have the lowest IR per cell and the best FoM (Figure of Merit-the calculation of internal resistance times gate charge, the lower, the higher discharge C- but don't ask me to explain it any further cause my pea size brain just couldn't-I'd have an easier time explaining how anti-matter works on the starship Enterprise). It can also tell me if an individual cell is bad and in the case of one of the new HRB's, I could see it was 30% below in everything from all the other HRB's so I got it replaced for free. The best "meter" is still what Evan D does, use it in flight and see how you like it.

I did test the HS 8000 on flight times and although it is no where near a 100C, it still has comparable power to the HRB 6000 50C and the RT 5500 70C, yet added a minimum of 1-1 1/2 minutes of flight time on the SU-30 and F-16. That in itself was worth it for me (even at the cost of having my wife cancel my credit card).

The most useful tool for me was the GT Power meter I bought from Motion and tested each battery with a specific fan. Those results IMO are well worth the cost of the meter at something like $25.

So don't waste your money on test equipment or a ton of batteries like I did, allocate it towards another FW/FL model (man, I wish I had done that instead of buying all these batteries and meters, I'd be in RC heaven right now).

**Mizer67** · Jul 9, 2020, 09:55 PM

Originally posted by Hugh Wiedman View Post

Got the meter at Progressive RC.com, cost $149. I'm not all that convinced it's worth it though. It definitely tells me which individual batteries and brands have the lowest IR per cell and the best FoM (Figure of Merit-the calculation of internal resistance times gate charge, the lower, the higher discharge C- but don't ask me to explain it any further cause my pea size brain just couldn't-I'd have an easier time explaining how anti-matter works on the starship Enterprise). It can also tell me if an individual cell is bad and in the case of one of the new HRB's, I could see it was 30% below in everything from all the other HRB's so I got it replaced for free. The best "meter" is still what Evan D does, use it in flight and see how you like it.

I did test the HS 8000 on flight times and although it is no where near a 100C, it still has comparable power to the HRB 6000 50C and the RT 5500 70C, yet added a minimum of 1-1 1/2 minutes of flight time on the SU-30 and F-16. That in itself was worth it for me (even at the cost of having my wife cancel my credit card).

The most useful tool for me was the GT Power meter I bought from Motion and tested each battery with a specific fan. Those results IMO are well worth the cost of the meter at something like $25.

So don't waste your money on test equipment or a ton of batteries like I did, allocate it towards another FW/FL model (man, I wish I had done that instead of buying all these batteries and meters, I'd be in RC heaven right now).

Haha, I have my eye on one more bigger model, but I'm running out of storage space. I didn't fully appreciate without seeing it quite how big these newer 80mm & 90mm models really are.

The small stuff I can still find room for and batteries I feel like I always could use more of...I've purchased 10 so far very recently, albeit the "budget" oriented varieties. I hadn't flown R/C since 2016, but now due to COVID, I've gotten back into it. Besides, I do like to geek out on data.

I have the watt meter and watts = thrust I assume is a good assumption. But my concern there, not fully understanding the science is that the watts aren't necessarily translating to thrust. I've taken to using a scale to measure installed thrust in the plane..once I get a few different tests done that might be of value to people looking at 6S setups, I plan on publishing my results.

**Phantom** · Jul 10, 2020, 03:17 AM

Originally posted by Mizer67 View Post

I've been curious about the HS batteries myself. They have fantastic weights and sizes for the Mah rating each one has. I can't provide the supporting data, but what I've read on HS on another site said they were built by wiring up individual cells that were capable of ~17C each, which explains the light weight. I'm coming to respect that higher "true" C = higher weight, with current battery formulations.

None of my setups will pull more than ~120A at peak, but I'm not light on the throttle and can tell a difference in flight for batteries not holding voltage as well, or for as long.

I bought a number of CHNL batteries and the 40C Black have the highest IRs of any new batteries I've seen (44 - 48 total for the 6S pack). The 65C Black are half that (22 - 26 C total for the 6S pack), but HRBs are in the low 10-teens. I'm not impressed so far with the CHNLs, particularly the 40C's. The 65C's aren't terrible and I can tell a difference in flight.

I'm trying some of the Turnigy 60C HDs this weekend, but they're heavy for their size (+10% vs. some others). I'll see if I can tell any difference. Weight is the enemy for the type of flying I like to do right now.

I've found that two CNHL Black series 5000mah 4s 65C in my 8s FW YAK-130 give me the best punch, over my other 8s lipo combos. I've been at just about stall speed 5 ft off the deck and had to do a go around. She seemed to hang in the air almost motionless for probably 2 seconds while my heart was in my throat, then started climbing out with authority!

In contrast the CNHL G+Plus series 6000mah 6s 70C are terrible lipos, lacking in punch, flight time, and size/weight. They're the size of a school bus and weigh about the same as a full grown blue whale, perhaps a slight exaggeration but not much....

**Mizer67** · Jul 10, 2020, 07:16 AM

Originally posted by Phantom View Post

I've found that two CNHL Black series 5000mah 4s 65C in my 8s FW YAK-130 give me the best punch, over my other 8s lipo combos. I've been at just about stall speed 5 ft off the deck and had to do a go around. She seemed to hang in the air almost motionless for probably 2 seconds while my heart was in my throat, then started climbing out with authority!

In contrast the CNHL G+Plus series 6000mah 6s 70C are terrible lipos, lacking in punch, flight time, and size/weight. They're the size of a school bus and weigh about the same as a full grown blue whale, perhaps a slight exaggeration but not much....

Of those I've flown so far between HRB, the 40C and the 65C, the ones only ones where I cant tell a noticeable difference in flight on are the 40C's Blacks.

Which is unfortunate because they were so inexpensive, I bought four of them in one lot.

I think they're factory seconds which I should've expected given the price I suppose. I have 5 year old 6S batteries that have hundreds of cycles with lower IRs than these 40C's do brand new and give similar performance in-flight. I read an RCG thread that said they were true 35C and I didn't see a lot of difference in the data for other ~740 gram packs, but it's definitely there in-flight.

**Hugh Wiedman** · Jul 10, 2020, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by Mizer67 View Post

I have the watt meter and watts = thrust I assume is a good assumption. But my concern there, not fully understanding the science is that the watts aren't necessarily translating to thrust. I've taken to using a scale to measure installed thrust in the plane..once I get a few different tests done that might be of value to people looking at 6S setups, I plan on publishing my results.

Mizer67 looking forward to seeing your results. I too assume that AH and Watts drawn translates into thrust but not sure. I can tell you that I definitely feel the difference and can hear the higher/faster whine of an EDF as the maximum Watts are also increased. Wish I had some sort of thrust meter to find out for sure.

But wait a minute, I just did invent an EDF Thrust Meter. Designed and manufactured right here in the Good Ole USA by one of the greatest and most inventive minds of the 13th Century! And you too can get one, while supplies last. These are not offered in any store, only here on Hobby Squawk!

For just three easy payments of $99.99 with absolutely FREE shipping (only a small handling fee of $999.99) YOU can be the first one on your block to own the Incredible, newly redesigned and upgraded, ACME EDF digital and nuclear powered Thrust Meter "WONDER BOY ". Endorsed by thousands including "Dumb & Dumber", Wile E. Coyote and even "Sleepy Joe" Biden (although he refers to it as "You Know, The Thing"). But wait, there's more. If you act now in the next 59 minutes, you'll get a second one absolutely FREE with FREE shipping by using the Promo Code [I B A MORON]. Only standard handling fee of $999.99 applies.

Please Note: This offer not valid to residents living in California or on planet Uranus

And HERE IS WONDER BOY

IN ACTION

I think I just heard my last few brain cells exclaim "THAT"S IT, I'M OUTTA HERE"

**Elbee** · Jul 10, 2020, 10:21 PM

Originally posted by Hugh Wiedman View Post

I think I just heard my last few brain cells exclaim "THAT"S IT, I'M OUTTA HERE"

Hugh,

OUTSTANDING,

but shouldn't your brain cells say ..."we're outta here."? Send me 2 of the "Wonder Boyz" Thrust Meters and I'll gladly pay you next Tuesday. Best, LB

**Twowingtj** · Jul 11, 2020, 06:56 AM

Hugh Wiedman That was great. There must be a Director of Marketing job in your future.

**John Bergsmith** · Jul 29, 2020, 06:44 PM

Hugh Wiedman Very interesting information, thanks for putting it all together.

I have more than a dozen Hobbystar batteries, mostly the 5200’s in both 6s and 2s. Never had a single problem and really like them. All of them have held up great without a single hint of any puffing. Just purchased three more of the 6s 5200. All three of them puffed big time after one flight on my Freewing T-33. Voltage was over 3.8 after landing on all three packs. No idea what the deal is. Not a great response from RC Juice in my opinion. Guess I’ll have to head in another direction.

**ScottyDsntKnow** · Nov 14, 2020, 05:16 PM

Apparently HRB has really been stepping up their game in the battery dept. They're not the best but they're still good and they are very affordable. Amazon.es sells them too which is good news for me out here in Espana. I've got a pair of big SMC 8000s for my Dynam Meteor and when I had the Freewing Avanti and I will say that SMC is by far... by FAR the best battery I have ever owned and it's not close. The 80mm Avanti with a FMS 80mm inrunner in it I could tool around doing lazy aerobatics for 6-7 minutes and still have 40% in the thing. Going all out I could land right at 5 minutes right at storage voltage. Twin 70mm FMS inrunners in the Meteor which flies around scale at 1/3 throttle will get 7-8 easy on the SMC 8000. Getting them to Europe is a pain tho even with a military PO Box, Lipos are a no no even tho if I was to hypothetically ask someone to forward them to me in a regular box there would be 0 issues...

The new Rhino batteries at HK are very cheap too but I got a pair of 4000mah 50C 6S and they are BIG batteries. They're bigger than my 5000mah Roaring Top 6S and heavier too. They'll fit in the E Flite Phantom tho which needs a little hotter pack so that'll work.

**Mach9** · Jul 8, 2023, 11:34 AM

I don't fly much due to work, weather and health. I shoot for a minimum voltage of 3.70 per cell and usually it is higher in a Freewing Avanti. I have an HRB 6000mAh 6S 50C I bought 02-26-2020 that has 70 cycles and it is swollen like a balloon with a weak cell. It still works, but I don't trust it. I have another one I bought 05-11-2021 that has 55 cycles that is still good. The EC5 connector is a copy and the wire fell out due to a cold solder joint!!! I have 2 Powerhobby 5200mAh 6S 50C packs. They are only 23 ounces! The first one I bought 06-22-2017 has 170 cycles. No swelling, but 1 cell is weaker than the others. The other one I bought 12-20-2018 has 125 cycles and is doing good. I would like another pack and was considering Roaring Top or another Powerhobby. The Roaring Top would be a little heavier and a little more expensive, but it may be worth it. I figure if it costs me 50 cents a flight that I have done OK. $100 pack for 200 flights. Fuel is very high now!

**Evan D** · Jul 8, 2023, 12:04 PM

I’m a big fan of the power hobby packs. 10 of the 5200 and 12 of the 5000’s.

**Hugh Wiedman** · Jul 8, 2023, 10:37 PM

I've moved on from all the other brands and am exclusively flying with SMC packs, mostly HiV packs now. Danny just came out with an 8S HiV 4400 pack perfect for the Eurofighter and a HiV 5900 60C pack weighing only 740 gr that I'll be trying in my Mig/F4/F16/F18 when they arrive. I was flying the Mig on his HiV 5300 75C pack which only weighed 731 gr, so for virtually the same weight, getting an extra 600mah could be sweet. They may be great for the F4/F16/F18 as I was flying those on the HiV 6200 75C packs but their weight is 840 gr. Can't wait to get these new packs.

Announcement

Lipo Wars: Admiral vs HRB/RTop/HS

Lipo Wars: Admiral vs HRB/RTop/HS

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