Best Handheld Camera for Flight Videos

[Alpha]

We all love watching flight videos, that's no secret! Not all of us have the luxury of a media team of professionals like Mike and Ryan, or 2Brothers, Bajora, or RCInformer. In a pinch, I know some of us use Mobius camera or GoPros or keychain cameras strapped to our heads to record ground video. Or we'll have a friend hold their cell phone to capture a few passes. But what options are available for those of us who want to try something the "next level up"? For those of you who have used camcorders, mirrorless cameras, and full frame cameras to capture video, what have you tried, what works, and what doesn't? I'd love to hear from everyone what equipment you've used in the sub-$500 category, the $500-$1,000 category, and the $1,000-$2,000 category. Hopefully we can pool our knowledge in this regard and have the courage to try new things for the casual video without breaking the bank!

Modern handheld camcorders under $1,000 feature an auto zoom which is turns out isn't fast enough to track an aircraft moving through space. Otherwise we're relegated to manually focusing, or setting the focus to Infinite, which still isn't always the best solution.

Mirrorless cameras have their own advantages, and limitations (cost and lenses). The same can be said for most full frame cameras. I'm also contemplating trying out a Sony A6000, which is a fast focusing mirrorless camera that is more maneuverable than the larger Canon 5D I've used in the past.

[Bajora]

RE: Best Handheld Camera for Flight Videos

I appreciate the shout-out there Alpha but not sure I am worthy!  :D

FWIW, I have shot video of RC aircraft for years now and have tried SO many different pieces of equipment! I started out with a Canon HV20 tape based HD camcorder. That was my first HD capable piece of video gear and it served me well. In fact, it still capably captures decent HD video. And I still take it to the field at times. Especially if I am the pilot and need to have my daughter or wife try and shoot video for me. It is compact and easy to wield.

My first big upgrade was to a Sony AX2000 Prosumer grade HD video camera. NEVER thought I'd spend that much coin on a piece of gear. What a rig like this brings is better glass, true XLR external mic inputs and a bunch of digitally based features. Though I love the quality of the video produced by this camera, it is large in comparison to a lot of my other gear. And the continuing evolution of digital camera gear almost matches pace with how fast the electric segment of air RC has evolved of late.

As HDSLRs became the mainstream, more and more of them became video capable. The ability to shoot video through a camera that uses high quality interchangeable lens was super exciting! The lens in my HV20, and to a lesser extent, my AX2000, both render almost everything in focus. Whether the subject is five feet away or fifty feet away. The lens used on old school film cameras and DSLRs are known for the limited depth of field they create. This IMO gives the video produced by them a much more professional look. I had a lot of old school legacy Pentax glass from being into Pentax bodies since my teen years. Started with a K1000 that my grandfather bought me. Drifted out of film thru the years but the arrival of digital saw me return. And it made sense (initially anyway) to buy Pentax digital bodies so I could use my old glass. I have since owned almost every Pentax digital body released. I shoot most of my studio with a K3 now. However, like many DSLRs, there is no autofocus capability while shooting video with my Pentax digital bodies. That means you have to manually focus, which is tricky for sure when shooting a fast moving model?!

Enter Sony. And the mirror-less cameras. These compact camera bodies CAN autofocus while shooting video. And in my experience, they do a really good job! I currently shoot a Sony A7 full frame and F4.0 70-200mm lens for my ground based video. The Sony A6000, as Alpha mentioned, is another very nice mirror-less camera. I use an A6000 with the same 70-200 lens for many of my inflight still photos. Sony also makes a A5100, a slightly more inexpensive cousin to the A6000. I have a couple of Zeiss primes that I use for outdoor still shots on my Sony bodies. They were expensive but the money you spend on glass usually is obvious in the quality of the photos.

I love photography as much or more than the RC side of things. It is a great time to be into photography and videography. Add in the 4K spec and my DJI Osmo and Phantom 3 Pro and there are now so many cool ways to shoot our RC models!

[Bluebird]

RE: Best Handheld Camera for Flight Videos

Alpha you must have read my mind because I came to Hobby Squawk tonite to look for info. on filming the flights of our airplanes.
There are some pretty good amateur videos on U Tube so the information has to be out there. I'm hoping this thread will really take off as others become aware of it.
Thanks Basora for a very informative post. I think I will check out some of the Sony cameras you mentioned.
My only experience so far is with GoPro which is great for filming from the plane but not of the plane. Also a Canon Powershot, which with the right lens attachment just might work. Need to get down to the local camera store I guess and have a chat.

[Alpha]

RE: Best Handheld Camera for Flight Videos

Hey there Bluebird, it's a good idea to examine these cameras side by side at your local camera store. The Sony A5100 and A6000 are high on the list at the moment.

[crxmanpat]

Over on the other site I saw that urrl is now using a Canon G20 video camera, and he's getting some really good videos with it. When I first started in RC, I had an old Mini-8, but it was before the advent of flip screens so it had an eyepiece. The great thing about shooting planes with that camera was the ability to stay focused on the model, and to hold the camera steady as it was pressed up against your face. Video cameras nowadays pretty much all use flip screens, so you have to hold them away from your face in order to track the model. This really makes my arms sore quick!

I really want to get one of those G20's. I've seen them on Amazon for as low as $680, but right now they are closer to $800.

http://www.amazon.com/Canon-VIXIA-Camcorder-Internal-Memory/dp/B00AWZFHG0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1454620103&sr=8-1&keywords=canon+g20

[Grossman56]

Hey guys, great topic.
I have a Cannon rebel which is capable of taking great videos, the only trouble is that when using movie mode, I can't figure out how to get it to allow me to see through the view finder! Is there away to be able to see through the view finder while shooting videos with a Canon Rebel?

Grossman56

[ryramZ]

It seems that's how most dslr cameras work. They do have extenders with eye cups that allow the screen to essentially become the viewfinder. What you see is not always what you get however. For Mike and I it's always a work in progress.

[Grossman56]

Its frustrating to try to pick something out on a bright sunny day through the screen, I ended up making a 'time lapse' video from a bunch of pics we took at our flying event last year, actually turned cool. Different at least.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OSlBGtgU44

Grossman56

[ryramZ]

The extended eye cup helps block out the light and eliminate the glare. After that it's settings. Mike rocks it in manual.

[Alpha]

Mike is a beast! I've seen his rig and he's quick and smooth on that focusing ring in Manual mode.

[Bajora]

I have outfitted a couple of my DSLRs with those diopter eye cups. They are pretty nice. I was a little reluctant to attach the included glass overlay to my camera body using double sided tape but it actually serves as a bonus protection for the LCD screen. The ones I have feature a slight magnification, which is quite useful when reviewing photos to see if they are really in sharp focus or not. And they easily pop on and off.

I bow in respect to guys like Mike who are adept enough to manually focus when shooting these fairly fast moving models!

[Grossman56]

Jeez, your kidding, I'd have enough trouble just keeping the dot of an airplane in the screen let alone manual focus!!!
Right on Mike!!

Grossman56

[CAPT.Mike]

Well the market is in a crossroad right now. The DSLR has become a video camera with its limitations and problems that all DSLR's have. Rotten audio, shallow depth of field, limited record times, not very steady, rolling shutter, blurred background, auto focuses really really suck! The F-stop changes as the zoom moves causing the video to get darker. The 3inch lcd screen wont give you any indication if the subject is in focus.
The video camera has become more of a DSLR to keep up for the crybabies who want shallow depth of field, blurred back grounds low light and hate auto focus. Watch any video camera review all you get is a close up of a flower, a house, a tree, they wont track any object in movement because video cameras now days have large sensors and rolling shutter and the auto focus has to work harder so focus always is hunting. The viewfinder in back of the cameras yuck. Im really upset at the camera selection available. You get into the real cameras for tracking aircraft "small moving targets" at the price of 5k or more but become heavy at that point. So in a nut shell we are at the mercy of learning skills to cope with the low end cameras. Im busy when filming, I have to change the aperture while zooming and focus manually all at the same time and keep the camera stable while tracking. At a low price point there so far is really no camera at this time. This however has not stopped me from looking. So don't beat yourself up to bad if the footage you take doesn't look like TV.
The standard is make it look like a cinema, low light, blurred background, shake the camera a bit for action, have black bars on top and bottom of the screen then do color grading in post.

[Bajora]

Since the Sony A6000 was mentioned several times in this thread, it is worth mentioning that Sony just released its successor ...the A6300. Plenty of info on it over at DPReview.com. I do love my Sonys... Tempting to pick up the body since I am already well invested in Sony glass? 4K video and a whole lot more too!

[Alpha]

Hey Captain Mike, thanks for that insight! In your extensive comparisons, is there anything in the sub $1k range you would suggest to pilots, or that you would try if that was your budget? Understanding that it's never going to be a $5k camera, and there will be inevitable sacrifices and compromises, surely there are better choices than others.

[Bajora]

I hope you don't mind my giving my sub1000 dollar recommendation Alpha.

For those of us who do not have the skill set of Mike, and who prefer to have a camera that does a very capable job of auto-focusing when shooting video, I recommend this combo:

Sony Alpha a6000 Mirrorless Digital Camera Kit with 16-50mm and 55-210mm Lenses (Black)

BHPhoto currently has the combo at $896.00, a sale price that is currently 150 lower than the regular price of $1,046.00. You get two lenses that cover you from 16mm to 210mm , with only a 5mm gap in the middle. The 55-210mm zoom gives you decent reach for shooting video (and also very nice stills) of our aircraft. The kit 16-50mm lens is good for static shots. The A6000 has SO many nice features, one of which is built in wifi ... Nice for quickly getting content off the camera and into your tablet or phone. A lot of my video and stills over the last year or two feature output from this camera. This combo is actually a kit, so it also includes a 32GB SD card, bag, extra battery and add to aftermarket charger and a few other basic items. Hard to beat the bang for the buck of this rig IMO. And the small form factor is a bonus.

[Alpha]

I spent some time at Samy's Camera this evening looking at that exact camera, the Sony A6000. They're asking $840 out the door for the complete combo with both lenses. We took it outside and tested its focus on cars driving past. It's amazing just how quickly it focuses, even on a moving object a couple hundred feet away. Tracking a bird in the cloudless sky, the camera can still focus on it quickly but it's clear that the camera prefers a contrast to focus, otherwise it hunts. For an RC plane flying low passes over a tree line or streaking through a clouded background, I think the resulting footage will be "close enough for government work". Overall I was convinced the camera is worth a shot. Of course, I checked Craigslist and someone was selling the exact same setup for $500, which sold minutes before I called him! So now I'm on the hunt for another deal in that range.

I also looked at the Sony PJ670, ~$700, which isn't a mirrorless camera like the Sony A6000 but instead is a more traditional camcorder. The PJ670 integrates a three axis gimbal inside the camera. You can actually see the entire lens housing moving, and walking around with the camera in my hand eliminated 95% of the bouncing movement. Very impressive, and would be nice for capturing very stable walkaround shots of a plane on the ground. Autofocus speed seemed good but not great, no surprise there.

Finally I looked at Sony's 4k version, the AX33, $1000, which was very similar to the PJ670. The advantage of 4k is one can pull 12MP stills from the video. The downside is needing software which can handle the codec. The footage also 'jumped around' when moving the camera around quickly. The technician commented that it's better suited to an environment where it's not being shaken around... so not good for us.

When comparing between these two camcorders and talking with the technician, I learned that the larger sensor in the more expensive camera actually isn't a good thing for our specific purposes. On the ground, filming "normal" subject matter, the larger sensor is great for lower light conditions, pulling in more information, etc. However, when filming a moving object which is taking up a smaller portion of the sensor, the larger sensor is more prone to stretching out the subject, and "rolling shutter". It has to do with how the sensor is scanned --Google it, thinking about it makes my head hurt! With a larger sensor, there is also a longer throw for the optics to traverse when focusing, and this longer distance takes more time to travel, thus resulting in slower autofocus speed. That part made sense.

The bottom line is, a bigger sensor or more features isn't always all it's cracked up to be, so don't just buy the biggest and 'best', because what is 'best' for 'normal' camcorder conditions doesn't necessarily mean it will be 'best' for our usage. Our specific purpose is, as the camera technician put it, "kinda off kilter wacky, dude".

[Bajora]

And my experiences with my A6000 vs my A7 pretty much align with what you just posted Alpha. Whe I bought the A7, I was beyond excited at obtaining my first ever full-frame camera! I researched telephoto lenses and had to stretch a bit to buy the Sony f4.0 70-200mm telephoto. I thought I was on the threshold of an entirely new level of in-flight photos. However, I relatively quickly found out that the A7 and that lens struggle big time when trying to shoot a moving RC aircraft. The writing is somewhat on the wall when you compare the maximum frame rate of the two bodies... The A7 at 5 frames per second and the A6000 at 11 frames per second. The focus on the A7 is just not fast enough to freeze the action of our subjects most of the time. For stills that is. However, I have found that the A7 and that telephoto lens do a splendid job shooting video of these models. So at the moment, when shooting my Sonys, I use the A7 for shooting static photos (the quality of the photos is outstanding IMO) and in-flight video and the A6000 with the 70-200mm tole for in-flight photos. The A6000 sounds like a machine gun when you mash the shutter release! In fact, I typically do not run the shutter in the highest frames per second mode but deselect it to the next lower rate and it is almost impossible to squeeze off just one photo at a time. I usually get two, no matter how quickly I press and release. But that is a good thing! The A6000 is no slouch when shooting video though; if I had not bought the A7, I would be still be pretty happy shooting video with the A6000.

When I am shooting in-flight photos with the A6000 (or any digital camera for that matter), I select the center weighted focus point instead of the mode where it looks at a much larger number of focus points. You have to keep the airplane in the center of the screen to get a good focus but that is usually pretty easy. Where the center weighted mode really comes into play is when the airplane drops below the horizon. If you have a larger zone of focus points selected, it will focus on the background 9 out of 10 times. Running the center weighted focus mode allows the camera to pick the airplane out of the background clutter if you can keep it near the center of the screen. Most Sonys have the ability to focus track a subject and I have played around with that mode a little, with varying levels of success. But that feature is probably worth another visit on my behalf now that I have gotten pretty comfortable shooting with my Sonys.

That sounds like a screaming deal you just missed Alpha. Check out the Used section on BHPhoto and Adorama. They list the condition of the equipment. I have bought many pieces of gear that are rated 9, 9+ and even 10 and have always been very happy with what I got. The discount betwee the new and used price is not always huge but it varies. Sometimes there are very nice deals to be had. BH is a dangerous site for me to visit! Lotsa cool gear over there.

[Alpha]

You have that 3lb Sony f4.0 70-200mm telephoto mounted on the A6000? Wow, I'm excited to see that footage! I'll stay with the cheap kit lens for my purposes, 55-210mm.

[Bajora]

At times, yes. I shoot stills with that combo mostly...the majority of the inflight P38 photos I have been posting around the forum here were shot with that body and lens. But that "slightly" less expensive 55-210mm does a really good job too.