Need a little help with my Admiral RX600SP 6-channel DSMX with Stability Plus Gyro

[thumbs]

This smart stuff is kinda new to me and I'm an ole guy so the two have a hard time mixing. LOL

Anyway I put the receiver in my FW 190 Dora and I think I have it pretty well sorted out but one thing. I put the gyro in mode three, on and off, with a two position switch. I think it is working but not much is goin on. I just got it together today and have not flown it as of yet. When I pick the plane up and roll it or change the pitch I hear very little movement in the servos. If I pick up the receiver and roll and pitch it the control surfaces move pretty well. I figure its the pots that need adjusting. What would be a good starting spot for the adjustments? I set the radio up according to the instructions with the mix at 0% and 5%. Not sure if i nee to adjust the pots or the percentages in the radio. I would rather ask that do something dumb. LOL

thanks

[xviper]

When starting off with a new gyro device, you should test control surface response direction with gain pots turned to FULL (in this case, clockwise). The reason you see control surface movement when you pick up the RX and move it in the different axis, is because this movement is quite abrupt compared to when you pick up the whole plane and move it. Try moving the plane more quickly with the gain up full and you should see the movement. This is the time you need to confirm that the response is in the correct direction. IE, when you roll right, the control surface should try to counter-act that. The movement is only momentary. It doesn’t stay deflected, so watch carefully. Once you’ve confirmed that the response in all axis are correct, then you dial the gain pots down to about 1/4 from zero (counterclockwise direction). IE, turn them OFF and then move up from there. Go fly it and increase speed to max and watch for oscillation in any of the axis. If no oscillation, land and turn up the gain a tiny bit. Repeat till you see oscillation, turn off the gyro and land. Back off the gain pots a little. The next flight should be just right. The gains are now set and you should never have to touch the pots again.
PS. Roll axis is the most sensitive to gain. Next is pitch. The dullest is yaw. IE, Rudder can take more gain than Elevator and more gain than Aileron before oscillation at speed sets in.

[thumbs]

Thank you very much. That is the perfect answer to the question. That is exactly what I need to know. Thanks.

Sometimes finding this info is pretty hard to do. There are a lot of assumptions as to how much exp people actually have had with this stuff. I have had none and any directions I have found have not had this info. I really haven't come across one video as to how to set the sensitivity up. In fact I know no one that flys and there are no hobby shops around here. All my info has to come from the internet. Anyway thanks.

[thumbs]

Apparently my last post did not go through. Anyway
I was playing with the Dora with the gyro installed. At 25% and basically didn't see much happening. I turned it up to 80 or 90% and got good movement. I have read these gyros are all different and there is no cut and dried position for these adjustments. The question is what happens if the adjustment is to high? Will the plane just get twitchy as though correcting to extremely low environmental input? In other words if I leave the pots turned up to high then tone them down as I fly her will that work. I only plan to use the gyro in windy conditions. I have it on an on and off switch. Yes if I screw up and need help getting it straight and level I will do so but its mostly to smooth out the flight in the wind.
thanks

[xviper]

Apparently my last post did not go through. Anyway
I was playing with the Dora with the gyro installed. At 25% and basically didn't see much happening. I turned it up to 80 or 90% and got good movement. I have read these gyros are all different and there is no cut and dried position for these adjustments. The question is what happens if the adjustment is to high? Will the plane just get twitchy as though correcting to extremely low environmental input? In other words if I leave the pots turned up to high then tone them down as I fly her will that work. I only plan to use the gyro in windy conditions. I have it on an on and off switch. Yes if I screw up and need help getting it straight and level I will do so but its mostly to smooth out the flight in the wind.
thanks

You should NOT fly a plane with a gyro turned up to the point you can actually see good movement in the control surfaces when you move the plane in your hands. If you send it up like that, you'd better have the ability to turn it OFF immediately. It will begin the oscillate itself to death. Don't mistake this "oscillation" with "twitchiness". They are 2 different things. Your Dora should be OK at 25% but on a fast plane, 25% may be too much. Never go by a % of gain. Follow the process I posted up earlier for setting the gain.

[thumbs]

Ok The reason I asked is the only other plane I have with a gyro or stabilization is a Eachine P51. When I have the gyro on the control surfaces really twitch when I move the plane. On the Dora I see or hear very little. I know not of what I speak so I really don't know. I will turn it back before the maiden, get some altitude and turn it on and see how she reacts. I know the Eachine in the wind using high rates it is twitchy. You can see the plane working the wind. Now this is a very small plane 15" wing span. Just trying to learn something here.

Oh one more thing. On the Eachine before flight I connect the battery and wait about 15 seconds or so for the control surfaces to stop twitching. Of course the plane is held or is setting level. How do you get the Admiral RX600SP 6-channel DSMX with Stability Plus Gyro ready for flight? Basically the same way? When I turn the unit on sitting in the work cradle I don't hear anything.

[xviper]

Oh one more thing. On the Eachine before flight I connect the battery and wait about 15 seconds or so for the control surfaces to stop twitching. Of course the plane is held or is setting level. How do you get the Admiral RX600SP 6-channel DSMX with Stability Plus Gyro ready for flight? Basically the same way? When I turn the unit on sitting in the work cradle I don't hear anything.

Once the Admiral is set up and the battery is plugged, it only takes a few seconds. You won't see or hear much of anything while it's sitting there on the bench. If you pick up the plane and the gyro is turned on, flick it around briskly in the roll axis and you should hear the AIL servos work a little. That's how you know it's initialized. Take a look at the instructions. There may be lights on the unit that should give an indication of what state it's in. There is really nothing to get ready for each flight.

[thumbs]

Ok Yeah at the 25% setting, as you suggested, I do hear just a slight sound like the surfaces are being adjusted as I move the plane. I really don't see much but I did check the surfaces, again like you suggested, with the pots at 100% and the surfaces do move in the right directions and with quite a bit of movement. I will turn them back to about the 10 o'clock position. About 25%.
Oh I didn't get any instructions with the gyro at all. It came in a bag with the gyro and a piece of double sided tape that's it. I did get a link from MotionRC for the on line instructions and set the gyro to my preference, On and OFF using a switch. The link helped but not to detailed.

Ok just went to the shop. I was reading a bit on the Motion site about the gyro. I turned the pots back to where you suggested 25%. I read about AUX 3 and adjusting the gain. The R Knob was all the way to the off position. I was in the mixing page on the DX. I noticed it appears I can adjust the gain in the RX gyro using the R Knob. Can this be used in flight or is it best to forget about the R Knob and leave it turned all the way down and keep the pots to 25% and adjust to pots as per your post above? If I can use it thats fine. Just want to know. I probably won't and fly and adjust the pots by hand. I would be afraid of moving the R Knob by mistake and having a problem. Just wondering if my theory is correct. Again I will follow your suggestions but wonder if using the R Knob is possible. thanks

[xviper]

You won't get instructions with most of today's electronics for RC. You have to get them online and also look to see if any YouTube videos there may be. I use the Lemon equivalent to your Admiral, so I can't tell you specifics of your RX. With a DX8, I believe you can have all functions available to you on the Admiral.
PS. That capacitor that comes with the unit is NOT for tuning or adjustment. It's to provide a stable current for the unit.

[thumbs]

Yep that is what I was doing. Using Youtube and whatever I can find. Are we both talking about the R Knob as the capacitor or on the RX unit? The only thing I see on the RX to adjust are the pots. The only thing on the RX I have touched ar the pots. I guess I should leave the R Knob all the way turned down and do the adjustments to the pots on the RX unit.

[xviper]

Yep that is what I was doing. Using Youtube and whatever I can find. Are we both talking about the R Knob as the capacitor or on the RX unit? The only thing I see on the RX to adjust are the pots. The only thing on the RX I have touched ar the pots. I guess I should leave the R Knob all the way turned down and do the adjustments to the pots on the RX unit.

What you're calling the capacitor, I'm calling the rotary knob (master gain on Ch.8). "Capacitor" is generally what I call a cylindrical device on some gyros (IE, HobbyEagle) that is attached to an empty port on the RX to maintain a stable voltage. I guess the Admiral gyro RX doesn't use a capacitor.
In the product page for the Admiral SP receiver, you can access the YouTube video that MotionRC made to show people how to set it up.

[thumbs]

Thanks yeah whatever its called I think we are on the same page. No I don't think the Admiral has one. Getting all the confusion out of my head here is the down and dirty as I understand it. Forget about the gain Knob on the transmitter just leave it turned down and forget it. Now starting over. Set the pots on the receiver to 25% to start.. Fly it to see if there is any oscillation. If none turn the pots up a bit and repeat. When I get oscillation turn it down a touch and I'm done.

Hey thanks for the help. I can get a bit anal retentive. LOL With things like this my mind works in black and white. I have a hard time with the grays. LOL

Also thank for your help in my quest for an EDF on another thread. I appreciate all the help I can get. And thanks for your patients. As long as what I said here above is correct I think I'm in good shape. (I think) Ha.

[xviper]

Forget about the gain Knob on the transmitter just leave it turned down and forget it.

You might want to look into that further. I'm not sure if the Admiral uses the knob for master gain, but on some of my other gyros, the knob represents regulating the pots from zero to 100% of what's they are set at. IE, if your pots are set at 25%, then the knob will regulate that from zero to 25%, which means if you have the knob turned all the way to zero, your gains may not work at all. Confirm this by this test. Turn the pots to FULL and put the knob to FULL also and move the plane. Does the servos react? Now, turn the knob to ZERO and try again. If the servo DON'T react, then you cannot leave the knob turned OFF. That being the case, you should leave it just before 12 o'clock to give you about 50% of 25% (or ~12% gain). It's a simple test that will show you once and for all that the knob does nothing. Better safe than sorry.

[thumbs]

Yes I tried that earlier. I'm an ole guy and it was getting late so I don't remember the details but will work with it in the morning. I turned the pots up to 100% and moved the R Knob and it did vary the sensitivity of the gyro. Meaning I could control the degree of sensitivity or movement of the gyro using the R Knob. I was on the mixing page and the aux 3 bar on the screen showed increase and decrease as I move the knob. Now at one point it did turn the gyro off but right now I don't remember exactly the sequence or the scenario that cut it off. I will mess a bit with it tomorrow and give ya more info. If, in fact, I can adjust the sensitivity for the gyro from the ground and have the assurance it will work and not shut off that would be great. I will have to start a pre flight check list with this plane. LOL A bit more to it than my scratch built profile planes I am use to. LOL I though I read on the description of the gyro on Motion's page that is is adjustable while the plane is in flight but cant swear to it. I think while I was using the knob I pushed the recovery button or the bind button and it disconnected the gyro. Not the receiver just the gyro. I also think I turned the R Knob all the way to off or most of the way and it turned the gyro off. Not sure if turning it back turned it back on or not. Those are the details not sure of.

Not sure I want to fly with the gyro all the time. Not sure how much input it takes away from me. I always seem to have wind around here. On the calmer days I want to fly without the stabilization. I want the stabilization to all me to fly in a bit of wind. Your thoughts. Is it better to fly with some stabilization all the time and have the "panic button, available or fly with the on off option and use the stabilization only when needed. I know its personal preference but I have no exp with these things thought I would ask you what you think.

[xviper]

If the knob works, then you have an OFF capability when you turn it all the way down. Having a switch is merely an instant OFF if and when you really need it. I don’t use a switch as I turn the gain up AFTER I take off (during the calibration and testing phase). Once I know where the master gain needs to be, I write that down in the battery compartment so I know for next time. From then on, I fly with the knob at that point and leave it for the whole flight. A gyro doesn’t really do much when there’s no wind effect. It doesn’t really take away that much from the pilot. If you ever get into flight controllers, that’s a whole other story. The gyro in a flight controller can affect the way the pilot inputs his commands via the sticks, depending on how you program it and what you want it to do.

[thumbs]

I will check it out. If you don't mind I'll do some pokin around and get back to ya tomorrow. Time to put these ole bones to bed. Its 2:48 am here. LOL Good night and thanks for all the help. Let ya know what I find out tomorrow.

[thumbs]

Good afternoon. Did some playing around with the receiver. Tried to select a different mode but decided to go back to to mode 3 on/off. I can control the amount of response to the gyro using the R Knob. If I turn the gyro off using switch A of course it is off and nothin happens. I found that yes in effect I can turn the gyro off using the R Knob just by turning the knob all the way to the left. So in effect I can turn the gyro on and off using the R Knob and adjust the response using the knob also. So I can turn the gyro off using either the switch or the knob. When I turn the gyro on using the switch I have to adjust the knob to get a response. So I guess I can fly the plane and adjust the strength of the gyro response using the R Knob. This will allow me to fly with little or no input from the gyro or if in wind I can turn it up in flight. Am I hitting on all cylinders here or missing something. I tried to set it up to use the recovery mode. The gyro on and in an emergency hit the button for recovery but it didn't look like anything happened so I went back to mode 3 on/off and the ability to control the response with the knob. How do you have yours setup?

By the way my head is a bit clearer after a good night sleep LOL

[xviper]

I don't use a switch to turn the gyro ON/OFF. I just use the knob. If you use a switch, then just set the knob to the point just before oscillation in flight (at max speed in a straight line) and leave it (for good). Once set, there is no need to mess with it. Flying with gyro set this way will become second nature and you won't feel or see any adverse effects from the gyro.
When in "recovery mode", how do you test it? On the ground, when you tilt the plane in the roll axis, the ailerons will deflect and stay there. Same for the elevator when you change the pitch of the plane. Recovery mode generally will NOT use rudder. My Horizon Hobby planes that come with "safe select" is like having "recovery mode", only with those, there is no switch or button for "panic" situations. You just take your hands off the sticks. You can still fly the plane in "safe select", but the bank angles and pitch angles are limited.

[thumbs]

I set the thing up to what I thought the instructions said. A lot to be desired but thats the way I think I did it. With what you just said I think I would like to set it up without the switch. One less thing to remember. I will have to look and see if there is a selection in the mixing that will allow me to put full control to the R Knob. The other thing is how to use the "Bind Button" for the recovery function. I didn't test the recovery function because I really didn't know how until you told me. Since I have a better handle on this thing maybe I'll try it.

[thumbs]

Ok believe this or not I think I have it. LOL I set it up for mode #1. Since I can turn it off with the Knob why not save a switch. The switch now does not effect the gyro. With the bind plugs in the blue green indicator to the right of the little button on the RX I set it to Blue. Should be faster response. Good or bad ?? Now with the mode set and the reaction rate set I turned off the RX power and bulled the bind connectors. Turned on the DX then the RX and played with it. If I turn the R Knob all the way down I hear just a faint servo movement. Not enough to even move the surfaces but just a bit. If I turn the knob all the way up to there right I get maximum deflection of the surfaces. If I roll the plane and hit the bind button the surfaces snap to level the plane. Don't remember if the move as the plane is returning to level but I am guessing they do. One thing I probably checked but don't remember. So I think I am ready. I'll wait for a calm day and run a pack through her with the gyro set to 25% or so. After I get used to her I'll go balls to the wall and turn up the "gain" on the knob till I get some osculation then back off. That will be my setting for the gyro.