Dynam F4F Hellcat decals

[Dewey H Lee]

Hey folks. I'm here to show my ignorance to the world again. I recently received my new Hellcat from Motion rc. I have never had a plane that I have had to put decals on. I own several and the 2 foamies that I ordered previously had the decals already applied. Another my extreme Pitts was bought from a friend in the club. Also decals installed. So here's my question. Are they water slide or peel and stick. The other question I have would be the process to apply these in the most efficient manner to prevent peeling later. This is the Dynam F6F. Any help and advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Konrad]

RE: Dynam F4F Hellcat decals

All my Dynam models have had peel and stick decals. I like to work from the center out when applying them. My major concern is air entrapment. Nothing really sticks to polypropylene so they will lift. But if you stay on top of it and don't allow dirt to get under the decals the edges can easily be reapplied.

[Dewey H Lee]

RE: Dynam F4F Hellcat decals

All my Dynam models have had peel and stick decals. I like to work from the center out when applying them. My major concern is air entrapment. Nothing really sticks to polypropylene so they will lift. But if you stay on top of it and don't allow dirt to get under the decals the edges can easily be reapplied.

Thank Konrad I appreciate it. Going from primarily my older nitrous built by someone else to the electrics has been an adventure.

[farmflyer]

RE: Dynam F4F Hellcat decals

They should be peel and stick. I wipe the he surface first use a hand spray bottle to mist water lightly on the area where they're going apply them then work them down from the center out. The water allows you to reposition if necessary and makes it much easier to get them sealed down and get the air out. Recheck for air bubbles and work them out to the edge for a few minutes. I've had very good luck doing this for several years and have not had one peal up.

[Konrad]

RE: Dynam F4F Hellcat decals

Care to share why going to electric has been an adventure. 


I came from glow engines (alcohol). I even build my own engines. And I have always found that electrics are much easier, predictable and reliable than glow. Also as a result of the added torque they fly better as they can swing a much more efficient prop than a comparable glow engine.

I think matching the power curve of a linear electric motor is far easier than trying to match that of a glow engine. The attached chart is trying to show how much different the electric motor is compared to the glow engine. The big thing to notice is the slope of the power curves are reversed between both power sources.

[Dewey H Lee]

RE: Dynam F4F Hellcat decals

They should be peel and stick. I wipe the he surface first use a hand spray bottle to mist water lightly on the area where they're going apply them then work them down from the center out. The water allows you to reposition if necessary and makes it much easier to get them sealed down and get the air out. Recheck for air bubbles and work them out to the edge for a few minutes. I've had very good luck doing this for several years and have not had one peal up.

Thank you farmfliyer. One other thing for you or Konrad would be on the cg. Best done with retracts up or down being 90 degree retracts. Also have you done the flap mod and what is involved. I'm eager to learn and at one time ran an experimental machine shop where I used to work. I'm sure I can do it if pointed in the right direction. Never worked with foam there. Just metal and plastic and various other materials to hard to spell.

[Konrad]

RE: Dynam F4F Hellcat decals

Does the manual state how they are to be measure? If not set the CofG with the gear up/aft with the Hellcat. This will place the aircraft in the most rearward mass condition. This may result in a nose heavy aircraft if the OEM called out the placement with the gear extended. So, follow the manual and if not stated balance with the gear up.

I hope you are aware that the stated CofG on any model is a starting point. Move it around until you find the proper place for a comfortable flying model.
I like to use this chart when trimming out my models.

http://www.wtp.net/DBEST/trimchrt.html

All the best,
Konrad

[Dewey H Lee]

RE: Dynam F4F Hellcat decals

Care to share why going to electric has been an adventure. 


I came from glow engines (alcohol). I even build my own engines. And I have always found that electrics are much easier, predictable and reliable than glow. Also as a result of the added torque they fly better as they can swing a much more efficient prop than a comparable glow engine.

I think matching the power curve of a linear electric motor is far easier than trying to match that of a glow engine. The attached chart is trying to show how much different the electric motor is compared to the glow engine. The big thing to notice is the slope of the power curves are reversed between both power sources.

Electric is cleaner and doesn't require as much field equipment to fly. The other guys in the club give me a lot of bunk about how fuel is a lot less than batteries and they can fly longer and you can get less cycles on a battery because they only get about 100 charges. Funny though the few that talk this trash fly to the point that there batteries are well below 3.7 and so hot you can't touch them. This is just a few who fly just one or two calling them there expendable toys. Not real planes. I like the faster response as well as the predictable nature of electric. A mishap is also a lot easier to repair. After coming back to flying I thought I had completely lost any experience I had gained 20 years prior. Started back with some nitro planes I aquired from the club I joined. One led to another and then one day I had 3 nitros. Went to the hobbyshop one day and bought the corsair with safe. Loved the way it flew and handled. Next got a Dynam Pitts biplane from a friend to try without the ax3 and was hooked on electric since. Although do have gyro in my 1450 airfield corsair. Wanted to put one in a phenix 55"spit fire that I'm putting together. Started out go to put a 55 ax o.s. engine in it but now leaning towards electric setup. Sorry about the book. All I have is an old cat to talk to.

[farmflyer]

RE: Dynam F4F Hellcat decals

I balance cog with gear up. I'm balancing for flight not for ground handling as Konrad stated earlier the recommendation in the manual is a good starting point but may not be the best for a given pilot. I usually like mine a tad nose heavy seems to make most planes more stable for my flying style. I have not done the flap mod on any of my Dynams they fly so light I don't think they needed it

[Dewey H Lee]

RE: Dynam F4F Hellcat decals

I balance cog with gear up. I'm balancing for flight not for ground handling as Konrad stated earlier the recommendation in the manual is a good starting point but may not be the best for a given pilot. I usually like mine a tad nose heavy seems to make most planes more stable for my flying style. I have not done the flap mod on any of my Dynams they fly so light I don't think they needed it

I was just wondering. The airfield 1450 i have seemed to want to stall on landings without a good bit of power and the flaps deployed when the wind is down. Seems to fly heavy and the cg is dead on as per manual. Anything lighter and it's a handful.
[hr]
I mean a hand full to land. Retracts are crap so it it's important to be smooth.

[farmflyer]

RE: Dynam F4F Hellcat decals

I balance cog with gear up. I'm balancing for flight not for ground handling as Konrad stated earlier the recommendation in the manual is a good starting point but may not be the best for a given pilot. I usually like mine a tad nose heavy seems to make most planes more stable for my flying style. I have not done the flap mod on any of my Dynams they fly so light I don't think they needed it

I was just wondering. The airfield 1450 i have seemed to want to stall on landings without a good bit of power and the flaps deployed when the wind is down. Seems to fly heavy and the cg is dead on as per manual. Anything lighter and it's a handful.

When I have a situation like that my first go to is add a little nose weight or reduce the flap angle a little to help carry a little more forward momentum in the landing glide slope. A larger battery can be a good way to add the weight.

[Konrad]

RE: Dynam F4F Hellcat decals

Being nose heavy means you have to land faster than optimum. The elevator/stab has to be working harder to keep the nose up in a flair. The only way to do this is to travel through the air faster. This makes it harder to judge the flair and adds landing stress on the LG as a result of more force, inertia when contact is make with the ground.

I find that a nose heavy ship is very hard to keep at a steady speed (has a very narrow speed range were it is in trim). Every model I have flown lands better the lighter it is. This includes the 16" UMX all the way through the 3.7 meter gliders.

I've found that the Dynam Retracts are just as delicate as any other brands that use micro switch. I've landed my over weight Dynam Meteor jet way too hard and way too fast and the gear them selves hold up.

Cats or no we are here to share ideas.

Abuse of the power system is just as detrimental to glow (lean runs) and it is to electrics. I like these fools that don't know how to run an engine or a motor giving out advice to make their chosen power plant look better. There are a few points were the glow set up is superior to the electric. I just can't think of any right now. Got one, with glow you aren't exposing your 3 years of fuel supply to risk with each take off.

[farmflyer]

RE: Dynam F4F Hellcat decals

Agreed Konrad excessive nose heavy is hard to control on landing. I prefer a slightly nose heavy to neutral or slightly tail heavy as they tend to want to stall easier to me and seem a little too touchy on the elevator. This could be due to the way I fly.

[Konrad]

RE: Dynam F4F Hellcat decals

The only thing I hate worse than being tail heavy is being nose heavy! The idea of setting the CofG forward to control sensitivity issues just doesn't make sense to me. To my way of thinking the proper solution to address overly sensitivity elevators is to cut down their throw or add exponential response to the Tx stick movements.

Nose heavy means that you are having to hold some up trim in the elevator. This make is hard to maintain a level (set) attitude while landing (or any other time in the flight). Should the air speed change like from a gust or a dip (dive) the airplane will try to rotate and point the nose up actually leading to a stall. Or you relax to back pressure resulting in the ship slamming into the ground. (If you find that you zoom (climb) out of turns you are probably nose heavy)

I only tolerate a nose heavy ship during the test flights. As I don't want to get into a snap unintentionally.

When asked to help trim out planes at the field, the biggest thing I have to fight is the owner thinking that the CofG is set in stone by the OEM. This just isn't so.

Try trimming a model per the chart given. Let us know if your fly doesn't improve with a properly trimmed aircraft.

I need to give bit of warning. No matter how well you trim a trainer type model it will never fly well as it is designed (aerodynamically) to self correct. This makes them a real pain to fly as they don't go where you want, they have a mind of their own.

[Dewey H Lee]

RE: Dynam F4F Hellcat decals

Thankyou gentlemen. Sorry I haven't been back to this post in a while. I'll definitely go back through the 1450 corsair and use this information while setting up the hellcat.

[Konrad]

RE: Dynam F4F Hellcat decals

Sorry, I'm a bit lost how does the 1450 Corsair have any correlation to the Dynam Hellcat?

It looks to me that per the manual (pg 7) the CofG is placed at 75mm aft of the leading edge with the gear down.
http://www.motionrc.com/content/manuals/dynam/60A-DY8958-F6F-Hellcat.pdf

Wow, if the drawing is accurate it looks like the model will nose over real easily. It looks like the axel is NOT forward of the center of mass by much, it should 7° forward. You might want to look at rotating (shim) the retract unit forward. Does anybody offer a 95° movement (strut) 90° rotating retract?

All the best,
Konrad

[Dewey H Lee]

Thanks Konrad. I meant that I would change things around a little to get my 1450 more responsive while landing with the information you provided seperate from anything to do with the hellcat. I don't have the degree of knowledge that you have. This is the reason I look to you gentlemen for you advice and guidance. Especially when it comes to foam planes. The foam planes I currently have are the F4u Corsair with safe, Airfield 1450 Corsair, Dynam Pitts Extreme biplaine, and the Dynam F6F Hellcat. I'm currently on the fence about adding one of the Freewing Old Crow or Iron Ass. I still haven't maidened the hellcat yet. Just got in a couple of 4s 3000s for it and have not had a weekend the winds haven't been howling.I appreciate anything you may come up with on the retracts.

[Konrad]

RE: Dynam F4F Hellcat decals

I was just wondering. The airfield 1450 I have seemed to want to stall on landings without a good bit of power and the flaps deployed when the wind is down. Seems to fly heavy and the cg is dead on as per manual. Anything lighter and it's a handful.
[hr]
I mean a hand full to land. Retracts are crap so it it's important to be smooth.

I want to be clear on this as I have concerns with what you call "responsive while landing".

What you describe in the above quote is a classic loss of air speed (when the wind is down) resulting in a stall. I hope you are aware of the difference between ground speed and airspeed. The wing knows nothing about ground speed. Flying is all about airspeed.

This line has me puzzled "Seems to fly heavy and the cg is dead on as per manual. Anything lighter and it's a handful." I assume that the "Heavy" model is forcing you to fly faster giving you more control (air over the tail) to hold the nose of the nose heavy model up.

While I like to make my models as light as possible this desire is second to having a model in proper trim. I'll gladly add weight to the tail or nose as needed. I hate to see guys being afraid to add weight to get a well trimmed model. Trim (set your CofG) your models so that there is little attitude change with changes in airspeed. If this results in too sensitive an elevator cut down your elevator throws or add expo. Also look for slop in the linkages and servo.

While the "Sport Flier" is the back bone of the hobby I find that the competition pilot is where the knowledge base resides. When you are at the field seek out these guys. Often they really know how to set up model to fly right.

If you must go with a P-51 go with the "B". After all it was the "B/C" that broke the back of the Luftwaffe. Also that nice green house canopy looks so much better than that wart looking bubble canopy. And the turtle deck aided in directional stability, something you might want when landing.
http://www.motionrc.com/fms-p-51b-mu...-wingspan-pnp/

OV10 has a nice fix for most of the landing gear issue we have with these servo-less retracts. That is the removal of the end point micro switches.
http://www.hobbysquawk.com/forum/rc-...stang-retracts