All Us intermediate pilots, Lets Share

[danloc78]

I didn't want to start a whole new thread, but figured I would share a rough experience I had yesterday. It's a bit long-winded, sorry for that.

A brief background...my instructor GAVE me a parkzone T-28 after haggling with himself from $125 to free. It has an upgraded ESC and motor and flies like a dream. He gave it to me a couple of weeks ago and I have had about 10 or more flights on it with absolutely no drama. Love the plane.

Fast forward to yesterday...took it to a big field with a good parking lot runway. No cars, nobody on the fields. It was perfect, but maybe a lil windy. I flew two batteries and then popped in the third. Took off fine, flew for about 2 minutes. Lost the signal. I kept fiddling with the ailerons to see if I had control but nothing. I had never experienced this before. What an awful feeling!

The plane disappeared behind some trees, slowly spiraling toward the ground. I caught sight of it again once below the tree-line, but it was flying level to the ground! Once I lost visual, I grabbed my dog, hopped in the car, and drove to that neighborhood across the field. (if my dog weren't 4 months old and knew how to walk on a leash I would have ran staight to where I had seen it!)

Anyway, I could not find it. i talked to about 8 people in the neighborhood, none of which had seen or heard of it. I went home, made some flyers, and put them up on the telephone poles in the neighborhood.

I am hoping I get a call within the next day or two...and I am really kicking myself for not putting my contact information on/in the plane somewhere. I know that's a big no-no. I just hadn't gotten to it yet. Lesson learned...that'll be the first thing I do from now on.

[Dewey H Lee]

Man, hard way to learn a lesson. Sorry to hear of your misfortune and I hope you get your plane back soon. Always put your contact information in your plane. Don't forget your FAA registration number or you could be sorry.

[danloc78]

Yep, pretty dumb for me to wait on that. Other plane is set up properly but I've been slacking on the T-28. We'll see what happens.

[Grossman56]

Dang that's frustrating! take it from an experienced airplane hunter, they're usually further out than what you expect. Keep an eye upwards aw well, one of the guys a few years back searched for his plane in a corn field and walked underneath it a few times before looking up.

Good luck, hope you find it!

Grossman56

[danloc78]

UPDATE! After a few more hours of searching and talking to people in the neighborhood I gave up and went home. On my way home I got a call that this woman's son had found the plane in their backyard. I did a Dukes of Hazzard 180 and went back to get it.

Amazingly, there is not much damage. I'll know more when I plug in a fresh battery if the prop pitch is still ok and if any electronics bit the dust. But the plane itself is in pretty darn good shape considering.

I consider myself very lucky and I will definitely be putting my contact information, AMA, and FAA numbers in the plane straight away!!

[F106DeltaDart]

Glad to hear you found it! I had a similar experience buddy boxing with a new pilot. He had just bought a brand new Apprentice and asked if I could buddy box on it. After a coiple of minutes of flying, I lost all controls and it just glided off into the distance. I felt terrible because as a fellow college student, I hated to see his investment just fly off. We didn't find it for 3 days, but it was also undamaged (mostly). Some creature had eaten all of the foam off of 2 tires and nibbled on a wingtip. Found out later that there had been a bad solder joint on the arming switch that let loose and disabled the ESC.

[TiredIronGRB]

Good news, was it in the general area you thought it was?

[danloc78]

TiredIron...it definitely was. If I had free reign of everyone's backyards I'd have found it the day I lost it. But yes, it was right it the neighborhood block where I posted all my flyers.

I told the kid that anytime he sees me flying the plane to come on over and I'll let him buddy box one of my trainers. He seemed genuinely thrilled at the idea. Really nice people and if I can get him flying and enjoying the hobby...maybe this was all just meant to be!

Next time I'll be staying away from the tall trees though...

One question, this plane is DSM2...is DSM2 more prone to failure than the newer technology (DSMX)? I'd image so, but the guy who had the plane before me never had any problems. Might it be worth upgrading the Rx to a 4-ch DSMX?

I had line of sight the whole time and there were never any obstructions between me and the plane before I lost control. Boy I hope that doesn't happen again anytime soon. Glad nobody was hurt and it didn't cause any damage!

[danloc78]

Glad to hear you found it! I had a similar experience buddy boxing with a new pilot. He had just bought a brand new Apprentice and asked if I could buddy box on it. After a coiple of minutes of flying, I lost all controls and it just glided off into the distance. I felt terrible because as a fellow college student, I hated to see his investment just fly off. We didn't find it for 3 days, but it was also undamaged (mostly). Some creature had eaten all of the foam off of 2 tires and nibbled on a wingtip. Found out later that there had been a bad solder joint on the arming switch that let loose and disabled the ESC.

Man that's tough. Good that you finally found it though. I was like a man looking for his lost dog. I could not accept that it was just lost.

And this came two days after we tried to maiden my buddy's brand new Champ S+ RTF and one of the servos was bad out of the box. This is his first plane and that was a real downer. It was a rough weekend for RC!

But happy endings all around as he gets a new plane from MotionRC and I found my lost toy. :)

[Grossman56]

Well, all's well that ends well!
Bad servos seem to be a part of the hobby. I had bad ones in the Cub, the FW P51, The FMS Pitts and the FMS Mustang. I always check everything out before takeoff and after getting home from the field, life has taught me that, even then I've augured in a couple this year. One from a faulty gear sequencer and the other from a loose battery cable that came off the plug. Just buried the broken foam, played taps over it........

Grossman56

[Grossman56]

Ahhh!! What a great day! Got the P 40 back in the air this morning and got three good flights in on her as well as four on the Spitfire. Great comparative airplanes, so learning something on one translates over to the other fairly easily. The only big difference is that the Spitfire will float like an Apprentice given the chance, so you really can fly her like an Apprentice on the turn to final. Chop the throttle (I leave one click on to keep the prop in the game) and peel off any excess altitude early in the game. Worse comes to worse I can pump up the throttle. Get the fuse level and wait for her to descend, on to the mains and let her travel a bit before trying to plant the tail as she'll want to take off again! With full flaps, she'll land at almost the same speed as the Apprentice, its so light.
The biggest trick to landing the Spitfire is keeping her straight so as not to start dragging wing tips. The narrow gear is a bit of a challenge, but not impossible.
The P40, on the other hand, is a fighter in the true sense. I tried dropping full flaps and gear but didn't like the feel, so went back to half flaps. Again, turned to final and brought back throttle to about 3 clicks, but could get away with 2. Bleed off excess altitude early, clear the end of the runway and keep the fuse level. Land on the mains and chop throttle, steer down the runway. Again, if I tried to plant the tail too early, she'll try and get airborne again, so it's a timing thing. Got the hang of it though and my landings are much better.

So nice to get the P 40 back into the air for the first time since NEFI. Great airplane and she'll make me a better flyier.

Grossman56

[F106DeltaDart]

Sounds fun! I also had a nice day of flying yesterday. Had a bit of a hairy maiden on my B-17 yesterday, it really didn't appreciate the gusting winds. I was regularly running out of aileron authority trying to bring it around. Luckily, it made it back in one piece. Then I put 2 flights on the Wildcat, F-86, P-40B, and Sea Fury. With a 15 knot headwind, landings were great fun! The Sea Fury slowed down to almost no airspeed with half flaps and settled in nicely. Even the Wildcat with its narrow gear handled it nicely, and the F-86 was smooth and true as always. I also met another MotionRC fan there, who brought out a Rebel and Stinger 90. Nice to see another foam edf guy at the field for once instead of gasser 3D types who normally show up.

[Oxotnik]

Cool Thread. I got back into the hobby, a year ago this September, after having played with some early RC electrics when they were first emerging, then dropping out for ~10 years. While walking through my LHS, the EFlite Adagio caught my eye. After becoming reacquainted with RC piloting skills, I've expanded my fleet to include 21 planes (in my DX6 model memory - not all of those are still operational though). I guess I'd classify myself as a decent intermediate flyer, but still humbled when guys in my flying club offer advice on things that I'm doing wrong (or could do MUCH better, especially in regards to landing). The skill that I'm focusing on now is landing with throttle control, instead of elevator control. It's still taking every bit of my concentration to do it, but I'm definitely starting to get the hang of it. It's making a huge difference in the quality of my landings when I do it correctly, especially when flying planes (such as my warbirds) that have to be flown (not just glided) all the way to the ground.

[Grossman56]

Hey Oxotnik, welcome to the forum!!
Glad you like the thread! I started one a couple of years back called "All Us Newbies, Lets Share" and it went on for a few years, until it was pointed out that I wasn't a Newbie any more, hence, All Us Intermediates.
Lately, I've caught on to that philosophy after having Captain Mike Solo my P51, "My Little Gal II" he was good enough to demonstrate to a few of us at Nefi the concept of keeping the fuselage level and controlling descent primarily with throttle. Mike and Ryan both stressed that you have to fly the warbirds in, maintaining idol throttle, meaning two or three clicks, I measure it by what it takes to break the inertia and get the plane to move, but also using the throttle in small increments to control descent.
I can get a good two point landing by doing that, I've been practicing with my Mustangs and the P40, but the Spitfire has been a great learning tool for this as well. The only thing I find is that once its on her mains, I have to chop throttle and pause before planting the tail to allow some more speed to bleed off, otherwise, they hop back into the air, which is great for a touch and go, not so much for a landing!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DC_kZzuKH2w

Grossman56

[Dewey H Lee]

Hey Dan I've found also if you dump your flaps as soon as you get down it sticks to the ground a little better. I was at the club one day flying the Airfield 1450 Corsair. I would come in and 2 out of every 3 flights she would want to try and get back up. Mr Warren walked over and said son if you will dump those barn doors on the backs of the wings once it touches down it'll stay on the ground better. Next flight up and down was great. Dumped the flaps right after touch down and she settled right in. Been flying like that ever since.

[OV10]

The P40, on the other hand, is a fighter in the true sense. I tried dropping full flaps and gear but didn't like the feel, so went back to half flaps.
Grossman56

Dan -
Most pilots that experience issues with full flap engagement usually have them deflected too far that they act as an airbrake without any lift and the model drops like a rock and/or the power setting is too little to overcome the increased drag.
Try setting your flaps as follows(on all your birds that have flaps also) to these settings. This has worked very well across ALL my warbirds.
Half or takeoff flaps at 15 degrees.
Full or landing flaps at 30 degrees.
Try using this, much more accurate than using length measurements or eyeballing. Been using it for years.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=39434

I also believe you are under powering the airframe at 2 or 3 clicks on final. I know that on my DX9, that type of click analogy equates to about 15% throttle which is not enough for any landing with/without flaps. Try using about 30%(second gen DX6 & 8 voice can tell you like the 9 does)
Dewey's comment in post 277 about dumping the flaps is on the money too and especially so if you have a bird that is nose tipsy on grass.
As always, PM me if you need some further insight.
Best regards,

[Grossman56]

Thanks Charlie, just ordered the gauge, good deal for the price.
I went back and looked at what Mike set the P51 at and copied that, in the meantime I'll see how that works.
I've been putting off buying something like this, but its time...
Throttle setting is just a starting point, depending on the plane and and the head wind, I just concentrate on what the descent rate is. Sometimes, with a good Cody breeze, vertical landings with the Spitfire are the norm.

Grossman56

[Grossman56]

http://smallpartscnc.com/index.php?r...product_id=193
They also have the rotating retract replacement sides that will work on the P40, I have them on mine.

Grossman56

BTW, as an update to th retracts, I've had to add a small shim to the outside of the trunion as it is a little sloppy and allows too much wheel movement in and out to the point where one wheel was starting to drag rather than roll.

Grossman56

[Oxotnik]

Grossman, thanks for the tips on throttle-controlled landings. I fly on a grass field. I love warbirds, but the grass is hell on the landings. Even on near 3-pt touchdowns, and some immediate up elevator, the birds want to nose over. Half the time, I ROG take-off, retract, then belly land. My Eflite SU-29MM and Visionaire got upgraded to 3" wheels and easily handle the grass.

[F106DeltaDart]

One other thing I wanted to add is that I have found that you can use much larger flap deflections of split-type flaps like those found of the Spitfire and Sea Fury. I land with about 80 degrees deflection (only in low wind conditions) but they just settle in very nicely with this setting. And, these angles are proportional to what the full-scale uses, so they look more realistic on approach. The reason for this is that the flow over the wing remains attached due to the split configuration. They also generate a large amount of drag, so good throttle control is required for landing in this configuration.