electric vs gas.

[martmichals]

I really like the feel of glow or gas airplanes. While you can just throw an electric into the air, flying a gasser or glow plane requires attention and maintenance. They may not be the most convenient, but, in my opinion, they are the most rewarding. I love the smell and preparation, and I do agree that it isn't for everyone. Not everyone can find the time to get out and fly for that long. I can't hate on electrics, as nowadays 75% of my planes are electrics, and they fly great. It all comes down to personal preference. I would recommend buying a glow plane, since you have the chance to learn a bit more that what you already know about RC. As far as valid reasons go, there is only one I can think of. One battery in a glow plane will give you 5-7 flights safely, while electrics need a battery for every flight, and so you can fly quite a bit in one trip to the flying field. What little money you might save on batteries, will be spent on fuel though. I will always have 1 or 2 glow planes in my hangar.

Martin

[Aros]

I will tell you what...If I could afford a CARF F4U Corsair with a Moki 250CC radial...Oh mamma!

I would gladly make an exception. :D

[AussieHoppy]

Oh yeah baby, giant scale radial! As much as I admire the turbine guys, there is nothing more testosterone inducing than a big grunty radial :)

I too came from glow, started with the Cox powered control line as a teen in the 1970's, but I gave up on glow a long time ago.
I really enjoy gas though, not often these days, I still have my 40% Druine Turbulent and a couple of others, it is fun to get them running sweet, it's just another aspect of our enjoyable hobby. Flight duration is one aspect that I do enjoy more so with gassers, scale leckies tend to be so much shorter in flight time.
that said, 90% of my 30+ planes are now electric, and most of those are foamies.... and I luv'em all :)

[Grossman56]

Now that Corsair is really something, but I can imagine the total price!!
One of the reasons I was able to get in to R/C without getting served divorce papers was the relative inexpense of the hobby if I went electric foamies. I didn't have to spend thousands of dollars in order to get one plane in the air, I had to spend thousands of dollars to get ten plane in the air! Cheaper...........guy logic!!

Grossman56

[olwarbirds]

Now that Corsair is really something, but I can imagine the total price!!
One of the reasons I was able to get in to R/C without getting served divorce papers was the relative inexpense of the hobby if I went electric foamies. I didn't have to spend thousands of dollars in order to get one plane in the air, I had to spend thousands of dollars to get ten plane in the air! Cheaper...........guy logic!!

Grossman56

This is what has changed the whole financial face of RC Flight. My first balsa plane ran me over $1000.00 back in 70. You can get 3-4 nice foamies for that plus lipos...I love that big radial Corsair, but its for the very advanced flyer and get out the credit card ! .... DJ

[wrongroad]

Oh God,
I wonder just how many of those Cox PT19's were made.
I had one but found much more fun to take the engine out, fuel it up, start it and throw it.:rolleyes:
We had no idea where it would go and I think, now, how stupid we really were!
More than once I had it turn and come straight at me. A bit like dodging Magpies during mating season:D
We would laugh ourselves stupid. The 'we' was my late brother and I. Good memories. Still makes me smile.

Did anyone have the Testors Cosmic Wind twin pack?
I found both the red and white fuselages in the garden shed at my parents place a couple of months ago and the engines still turn over. Nearly forty years of sitting with no after run or any TLC to speak of.
My first cl model was the Corsair put out by Cox [I think] when I was eight or nine. It came with a sheet of heavy black plastic to use as the runway. The plastic really worked:rolleyes::rolleyes:. Like an extra hole in your head. The pack also included a big battery and a can of fuel.
Can you imagine that sitting on the shelf of a hobby shop these days? No, neither can I!

Regards and respect
Daryl

[XF-15DCC]

Some good info here as I have been debating if I should go gas or electric on a Seagull Yak 52 I have in the closet. Part of me wants to go gas just for the experience. The other part wants electric for the convenience.

Question: How do things wash out price wise. I haven't sat down to think about it but what is cheaper gas or electric. Yes some of the batteries for electric are expensive while the initial start up on going gas can be just as well.

I have nothing for a gasser, no starter no fuel pump nothing. What would be a cost for start up. Manual says I need a .91 2 stroke or a 1.20 4 stroke. What would be the electric equivalent? Then an ESC, batteries and such.

Hmmmm, off the top of my head electric looks a bit better way to go.

Any suggestions?

[fhhuber]

Electric is getting close to the same cost for initial setup 9including one set of batteries but no charger) as the equivalent glow... up to appx .60 ci glow size aircraft. Below .25 size its often cheaper to set up electric now than to set it uop with glow equipment.

With glow fuel above $20 a gallon in many areas it doesn't take long for even 1.20 size models to come out cheaper with electric than with glow.

Just a few years ago the cost of setting up a plane electric powered above .60 size was prohibitive...

[Konrad]

Now that is the one real world issue with electrics. You are flying with effectively 2 years worth of "fuel" on board. With glow a crash costs you one flight worth of fuel if the tank is ruptured. So if you are still digging ditches or smoking holes in the ground, glow has its place in the larger sport models. But if you rarely crash, electric is by far the superior power source.

With the current cost of lipos all models* are accessible. I have a set of 3 cell 2100 mAh 12C batteries that still has its price tag. It looks like I paid $79 in 2002, and that was with 2002 dollars!

*I liked the old FAI limit as to model size. I don't hold to the current AMA limit of 55 lb as a model, this is just too large. Now some 55lb aircraft are beautiful pieces of aviation equipment.

All the best,
Konrad

[fhhuber]

The "3 years worth of fuel" issue is not true any more...

I buy 4 X 3S 4400 mah packs for appx $120 shipped to my door.

You don't have to pay Horizon Hobby prices for LiPos.

[Konrad]

The "3 years worth of fuel" issue is not true any more...

I buy 4 X 3S 4400 mah packs for appx $120 shipped to my door.

You don't have to pay Horizon Hobby prices for LiPos.

What is true or false? Do you give your batteries more or less life span, and why?

I give all my lipos a 2 year life span at room temp. This is because the anodes and cathodes in the batteries deteriorate as a function of time so that they only release about 80% of their like new capacity of energy. This is for the semi-wet electrolyte lipo (what we use in our hobby)

Those 2002 cells were/are Kokam/FMA and Thunder Power branded.

All the best,
Konrad

[olwarbirds]

There is alot to take into consideration if you go fuel. That Yak 52 is a nice flying plane, but I definately would not go 2 stroke. You would get better results with the 4 stroke or even a 25-30cc gasser. You will need a glow driver and I for sure would be using an electric starter. So you would need a battery with charger, to power all that and a panel to tie it all in. Some kind of a fuel pump, be it manual or electric and dont forget a supply of Paper towels, cleaner and rags, extra glow plugs or spark plugs. A gallon of good 4 stroke fuel is around 30-35$, 12v starters are around 35-40$, drycell battery and charger are around $40, A decent rechargable glow igniter is around $30, fuel pump 20-25$, depending on which 4 stroke you go with it would run you 300-400$ for something decent like a Saito 1.20. Now add fuel tank, fuel line, glow plugs and tools. The same plane with electric equivalent, you will need an electric motor that produces around 1400 watts and running on 6S would be better and an ESC around 80-100 amps. You already probably have the lipos and charger..... DJ

[tdevince]

I started in glow, never did gas. I've recently gotten back into the hobby and am converting many of my old glow to electric for a variety of reasons. The biggest reasons are convenience, lack of required support equipment at the field and its easier to clean the electrons off the plane than the oil residue of glow. That being said, glow does have some advantages. From a safety standpoint, bumping a throttle won't bring an engine to life. Also, I'm one of the few that actually likes the smell of glow exhaust. I will probably keep one or two aircraft in glow and continue to build the electric fleet as well.

[XF-15DCC]

Well this is interesting.....

http://rcmb.org/Electric_Info/glow_elec_bonus4.pdf

[Konrad]

There are a few errors in that publication. The most egregious was storage. You DO want to store your batteries at Half charge, for lipos about 3.85V per cell. This balances the decay on both the anode and cathode extending the useful life of the cell.

And in my opinion electric motors are much easier to size than the old glow engines as their power output is very linear. Now the issue is that there isn't or wasn't that much "Tribal Knowledge" regarding electric.

Now when somebody mentions a 40 sized aircraft I have to ask is that with a gutless OS 40LA, a rippen Nelson 40, or a performance K&B 6.5cc. I get the same dear in the head light with that question as I do with a 600 watt rating. Folks really don't know what they are looking at when it come to sizing power requirements Glow or electric.

I hope you all can see that there really is no equivalency as the power curves slope in opposite direction. They might cross at one point but that does not mean the power sources will respond the same as the load varies in flight.

One of the biggest hurdles is trying to get guys to stop think in terms of glow engines when dealing with electric motors. Try to think back when you didn't even know about glow motors. Learn to think about electric motors like electric motors!

[RocketRobin]

I think about electric power set-ups all the time, because that's what I fly, because they fit in my compact car.

I think if I traded in my compact for something like a PU truck, maybe I could have a big gas rig.

I remember I flew nitro back in the day. Lots of nitro! 50% boat fuel, the good stuff. Starts easy, runs cool, solid tunes and smells like power!

I was thinking; is anyone running NOS on their gas planes these days? If I went gas I'd have to have a GM1 switch on my Tx :D

Cheers!
Rocket

[StormyDog1962]

Many great points but the main thing is to be enjoying yourself, for me I like all aspects of the Hobby from building a Balsa kit to putting on the covering to mounting the Motor or Engine depending on your power plant choice. I like to troubleshoot things when they don't go right and when I fix it I get a sense of accomplishment from it. Some people only want to fly and not mess around with the other aspects so for them Electric is the way to go, I say go for it. Just enjoy yourself and take out of the hobby the part you enjoy and avoid the parts you dislike.

[martmichals]

As we see there are a lot of good arguments, so I'll throw in a bit more. I find that gas aircraft as compared to electric equivalents are a bit cheaper, after the initial costs. Konrad brought up the point that electric batteries are effectively 2 year sources of fuel. With the batteries that I would have to use, I would have to pay upwards of 200 dollars for 2 years worth of flying. Gas, at its current price, is a cheap source of fuel with 200 dollars giving you the ability to buy, at apx. 3 dollars a gallon, 67 gallons of fuel, giving more than 2 years worth of good times. Truth to be told, gas is expensive to start out with, though.

[Konrad]

Don't get me wrong 80% power return after 2 years is still more than adequate for most sport fliers. It is just not what I will tolerate from my power packages.

[martmichals]

I understand you Konrad, and that brings another point to the table, a gas engine doesn't really change, and neither does its fuel source. Gas is always the same, while lipo batteries may change over time.