electric vs gas.

[wvrailfan]

I still consider myself a relative newb in the hobby, flying since 2011. I have only owned and flown electric and the vast majority of flyers at my club are flying electric.

I have visited other clubs and admired the multi cylinder motors, mostly on the very large models, and briefly thought I'd like to give that a try. Then I watch them tune, tinker with and tweek those motors and realize, I can fly several batteries just in the time they use "getting ready" to fly once.

I think if only for convenience sake I'll stay with electric. And, as others have pointed out, the technology of electric flight is only getting better. As battery, motor, electronic technology and manufacturing improves, it is easy to imagine our planes flying much longer, faster and with more scale features in the very near future.

[Flyer Phill]

I have a fleet of 24 R/C aircraft with only one being powered by a gas engine (OS 40 4 stroke)....my Hangar 9 1/4 scale Super Cub. I really can't imagine her being powered by anything else!

[Evoman]

I have never had a nitro Aircraft but I do have a Nitro powered RC car, an HPI NRS4.
If I were to ever own a non-electric airplane it would be one those that use a gas 4 stroke 5 cylinder radial engine like the one in the video. They just have the most realistic scale sound and power.

Nitro pros and cons.

Pros
Sounds good
Long run times and quick refuels

Cons
Engine break in necessary when new
Engine tuning
Engine will flood once in a while and will require some additional attention to get it running.
Messy oil residue that attracts dirt.
Clean up after each run
Engine has to be treated with after run lubricant after each use or if it will be in storage it will have to be oiled every so often.

[benjack71]

I love this thread. Let me say for starters I use to post on here under the user name Ben. For some reason I can not remember my password, and the password reset is not working out for me. Just wanted to throw that out since its been awhile since I posted very much. I fly nitro 2 and 4 stroke. I fly electric 1700mm 6s and 1400mm 4s. I have had 1 30cc gas DLE, ESM Skyraider that I am fixing do to the fact I found out I was to stupid to own that plane at the time. This is my take on electric verse petro.
Electric grab and go, smaller planes, only option for foam planes, cheaper fuel costs especially compared to nitro. Of course most foam electrics have a horrifying build time of 2 hours..maybe? . Able to get a better scale look from the smaller planes (1400mm,1700mm, etc.)especially with the new sound systems. Use larger props and multi blade props in a scale fashion on the smaller planes. Less maintenance. Less vibration without sound system.
The bad about electric is reduced flight time. Foamies and hangar rash. How many threads on here about how to put a protective coat on a foam plane? Recharging batteries time. Limited in size for the most part. Ok, I get it you can put electric systems in about anything now, but does anyone really want to have a 50cc Corsair with a 12s system, another battery set for control, another battery for retracts, plus reduced flight time? Ok, lets talk about reduced flight time. If you fly just at your club or by your self and its never that busy in the air no big deal. If you are like me and you go to a lot of fly-ins when flying electric you really limit your self. Because you might not be able to just land when your beeper goes off. For the most part when you have lets say a 5 plane limit in the air, as one lands another goes up if its a decent sized fly-in. So it can be time consuming to try to get your plane on the ground. The beeping of your timer does not mean emergency to most people. I have often pulled my costly 6s batteries down to 30% and below at fly-ins. You learn throttle management in a hurry. Which is fine, but it just means you cant really rip it up. Now, sometimes they will say ok electric only from 10 to 1030 or something like that depending on the fly-in. I have never seen that at a fun fly, but I did see that once at a warbird only fly-in.In short it wont be the death of nitro or noise that causes everything to go electric. It will be improvement in size, weight and mah of batteries imo.

Nitro 2 stroke. Tuning,breaking in.Cost of engine is higher. Cost of fuel is high. Messy. Noisy. Reduced prop size and most likely no good multi-blade scale option at all. BUT. Maybe less torque but power is better. It is usually faster. Overall performance better (compared to electric motor equivalent). Smoke. Sound. That smell of glow fuel! Can set up to power larger air craft cheaper. Yes,nitro 1.20 in a 90 size (70-78 in. wing span usually) would be cheaper than the batteries you would need for your 12s or 8s configuration. Longer flight times than battery. Less weight normally. In short a traditional 60 size and lower is great for electric above that and you start looking at costs. Even the Horizon Hobby 6S T-28 foam electric that is size wise equivalent to a 30cc when you start doing the math, your basically paying for the lack of building involved in the foam plane. You can almost build a 30cc balsa arf, with a gas motor and the radio equipment for what the large scale foam t-28 from HH costs. Not quite but pretty damn close. Then you have to buy batteries for that T-28.

Nitro 4 stroke. Larger prop. Still not going to swing that scale prop in a 60 size or lower. The 90 size and up though probably will. The sound of a 4 stroke. Pretty damn good fuel economy. On my you tube I have a video that demonstrates almost 30 minutes of flying time on a Great Planes Eagle 580 powered with a FS 95V OS engine. There was still about a quarter tank when I landed.That is after break in. Comparable torque. Of course with the 2 or 4 stroke nitro you will need a starter with battery and glow starter. On board glow driver possibly especially with 4 stroke (never used one, even on inverted mounts). Love the smell of that nitro. Love the sound of that engine when you crack that throttle!

Gas. What can I say. With the gas engines getting smaller all the time it is without a doubt the largest barrier opposed to electric systems. It can swing the scale prop even in the smaller sizes. Great power. Great thrust. Cheap operating costs. Not that expensive of a engine, pending on your brand of choosing. Can get a little complicated with the ignition battery plus the receiver pack. Anyone operating a gas engine without a opto kill just does not know any better. So it will require an extra channel for that. Other than that gas is just tough to beat. Setting up the ignition system is the toughest part about it, and that is not that difficult. Although, even though there is people who say you can and yes ignition kits that are set up to do this, I would never ever use one battery on a gas set up for ignition and Receiver/control voltage. I just would not do it period.

In short, electric is going to grow by virtue of the expanding foam market. Better battery tech before it takes over from everything.
I think the death of nitro is way premature, especially with the larger names getting some competition from quality engines such as ASP at much lower prices.

youtube channel

https://www.youtube.com/user/BenMerideth

[Grossman56]

Thanks for the input Ben, as someone who hasn't owned a gas/nitro motor since the 60's (cox .049)I admit total ignorance on the subject.
I can say that I hear you on flight times, I do envy the guys with the gassers that get such a long flight time compared to mine and I guess when you think about it, you're either going to pay for fuel or batteries, one way or the other, you're going to pay.
The one thing I couldn't help but notice is the sound from the P47 in the video. My 1400mm Pitts with a minimal sound system, would have that deep belly roar simply because of the cavernous fuselage compartment. Every time I close the hatch on it in the basement there's this great echo like you're in a cave, so if its sound one is after, that's something to keep in mind, although its leaning toward becoming a speaker box, with a sound system in mind, that is exactly what it becomes.

Oh for the day when they announce a new technology that will increase our flight times by double in electrics, then maybe.........

Grossman56

[VOODOO]

I love this thread. Let me say for starters I use to post on here under the user name Ben. For some reason I can not remember my password, and the password reset is not working out for me. Just wanted to throw that out since its been awhile since I posted very much. I fly nitro 2 and 4 stroke. I fly electric 1700mm 6s and 1400mm 4s. I have had 1 30cc gas DLE, ESM Skyraider that I am fixing do to the fact I found out I was to stupid to own that plane at the time. This is my take on electric verse petro.
Electric grab and go, smaller planes, only option for foam planes, cheaper fuel costs especially compared to nitro. Of course most foam electrics have a horrifying build time of 2 hours..maybe? . Able to get a better scale look from the smaller planes (1400mm,1700mm, etc.)especially with the new sound systems. Use larger props and multi blade props in a scale fashion on the smaller planes. Less maintenance. Less vibration without sound system.
The bad about electric is reduced flight time. Foamies and hangar rash. How many threads on here about how to put a protective coat on a foam plane? Recharging batteries time. Limited in size for the most part. Ok, I get it you can put electric systems in about anything now, but does anyone really want to have a 50cc Corsair with a 12s system, another battery set for control, another battery for retracts, plus reduced flight time? Ok, lets talk about reduced flight time. If you fly just at your club or by your self and its never that busy in the air no big deal. If you are like me and you go to a lot of fly-ins when flying electric you really limit your self. Because you might not be able to just land when your beeper goes off. For the most part when you have lets say a 5 plane limit in the air, as one lands another goes up if its a decent sized fly-in. So it can be time consuming to try to get your plane on the ground. The beeping of your timer does not mean emergency to most people. I have often pulled my costly 6s batteries down to 30% and below at fly-ins. You learn throttle management in a hurry. Which is fine, but it just means you cant really rip it up. Now, sometimes they will say ok electric only from 10 to 1030 or something like that depending on the fly-in. I have never seen that at a fun fly, but I did see that once at a warbird only fly-in.In short it wont be the death of nitro or noise that causes everything to go electric. It will be improvement in size, weight and mah of batteries imo.

Nitro 2 stroke. Tuning,breaking in.Cost of engine is higher. Cost of fuel is high. Messy. Noisy. Reduced prop size and most likely no good multi-blade scale option at all. BUT. Maybe less torque but power is better. It is usually faster. Overall performance better (compared to electric motor equivalent). Smoke. Sound. That smell of glow fuel! Can set up to power larger air craft cheaper. Yes,nitro 1.20 in a 90 size (70-78 in. wing span usually) would be cheaper than the batteries you would need for your 12s or 8s configuration. Longer flight times than battery. Less weight normally. In short a traditional 60 size and lower is great for electric above that and you start looking at costs. Even the Horizon Hobby 6S T-28 foam electric that is size wise equivalent to a 30cc when you start doing the math, your basically paying for the lack of building involved in the foam plane. You can almost build a 30cc balsa arf, with a gas motor and the radio equipment for what the large scale foam t-28 from HH costs. Not quite but pretty damn close. Then you have to buy batteries for that T-28.

Nitro 4 stroke. Larger prop. Still not going to swing that scale prop in a 60 size or lower. The 90 size and up though probably will. The sound of a 4 stroke. Pretty damn good fuel economy. On my you tube I have a video that demonstrates almost 30 minutes of flying time on a Great Planes Eagle 580 powered with a FS 95V OS engine. There was still about a quarter tank when I landed.That is after break in. Comparable torque. Of course with the 2 or 4 stroke nitro you will need a starter with battery and glow starter. On board glow driver possibly especially with 4 stroke (never used one, even on inverted mounts). Love the smell of that nitro. Love the sound of that engine when you crack that throttle!

Gas. What can I say. With the gas engines getting smaller all the time it is without a doubt the largest barrier opposed to electric systems. It can swing the scale prop even in the smaller sizes. Great power. Great thrust. Cheap operating costs. Not that expensive of a engine, pending on your brand of choosing. Can get a little complicated with the ignition battery plus the receiver pack. Anyone operating a gas engine without a opto kill just does not know any better. So it will require an extra channel for that. Other than that gas is just tough to beat. Setting up the ignition system is the toughest part about it, and that is not that difficult. Although, even though there is people who say you can and yes ignition kits that are set up to do this, I would never ever use one battery on a gas set up for ignition and Receiver/control voltage. I just would not do it period.

In short, electric is going to grow by virtue of the expanding foam market. Better battery tech before it takes over from everything.
I think the death of nitro is way premature, especially with the larger names getting some competition from quality engines such as ASP at much lower prices.

youtube channel

https://www.youtube.com/user/BenMerideth

Great post benjack71. I had exactly the same problem with trying to get back online with my original screen name pgiroma. Your analysis is well thought out and clearly explained. I've gone through the whole progression from nitro- gas- electric myself, and have jumped in with both feet on electric. Last week I took advantage of HH's 10% rebate, and now have the 6s T28 sitting in the shop for $468. Already had the batteries from my Super Scorpion, and ME262. I am very impressed with the T28's quality, and ease of assembly. Hope it flies as well as the video.

[Arthur89777]

Well, I guess that the electric planes like this one

http://www.rcfair.com/52052/blogs/view_entry/14200/

are good for pilotage training and taking experience in modeling. After that you can try the gas engines.
This is the individual choise. Electrics are much more ecological, don't have dirt from burned gas and oil. But the elecrics have less batt resource.
Isn't that?

[Grossman56]

All depends on how you look at it and who you ask.
Foamies are definitely easier to repair and instead of fooling around with carburetors, I'm flying. No mess to clean up so no Windex. The neighbors don't complain about the noise. Some planes are reportedly getting up 8 plus minutes of flying. One day we'll wake up to the new generation of batteries and we'll be flying 15 minutes plus. Then we'll see what happens. Especially now that there are 80" planes out there (P40) and EDFs and electrics that top 200 mph. Once we have the battery time issue beaten, I think foamies may take over...
Just sayin'

Grossman
Besides the longer I fly the stupider I get, was the quote from a well know pilot at Nefi. LOL!

[KitBuilder]

I have glo and electric, equal amounts but I prefer glow having started with it some 35 years ago. However I plan on moving to gas with the smaller displacements becoming more common along with the 20 to 30 cc motors. It's the tinkering part that I like which is why I prefer to build what I fly as well. Electric is a natural offshoot of the ARF movement, easy to get going and into the air. What's great is there are so many ways one can enter now which is great for the overall growth of the hobby...

[benjack71]

I have glo and electric, equal amounts but I prefer glow having started with it some 35 years ago. However I plan on moving to gas with the smaller displacements becoming more common along with the 20 to 30 cc motors. It's the tinkering part that I like which is why I prefer to build what I fly as well. Electric is a natural offshoot of the ARF movement, easy to get going and into the air. What's great is there are so many ways one can enter now which is great for the overall growth of the hobby...

Very well said!

[Capt. Crunch]

I've been flying electric for two years and earlier this fall I got my first glow plane. I gotta say I love it! Yes its a little messy, but as mentioned earlier, its a good time to inspect the plane when your cleaning it. During the week I can only fly after work and I am finding it easier to grab the plane and field box and go fly, instead of having to wait to charge a bunch of batteries and try to get some flying in before dark. As far as tinkering with the engine to get it running right, I havent had any problems with that. Maybe as the weather changes I'll have to adjust it, but so far it has been starting and running great. The 15 minute flight time is awesome!
I just pulled the trigger on a Hanger 9 Piper Pawnee Ag Wagon with an 80" wingspan. I plan on putting a gas engine in it to try to get away from some of the mess of glow.

I will always have and fly my electrics but fossil fuel power adds a whole new dimension to this hobby. My advice, if your thinking of trying it, go for it! Don't let the haters discourage you

[Alpha]

That 80" Hangar 9 Piper Pawnee will be really nice on gas! Anything larger than 75" or so, aside from the Carbon Z Trojan, is liquid fuel for me at the moment. It's all my .40-.60 size stuff that I've almost universally converted to electric.

Post pictures when your Wagon is ready to go, Capt. Crunch!

[Pauly]

Gassers.............Nawwwww. While another club member is spending a half hour cleaning the slime off of 2 birds to pack it in, I've managed to rack up another 3 flights in the log book. A point that I don't think anyone has ever really considered is the health exposure of huffing those nitro/caster fumes. When I got back into the sport after surviving my stage 4 throat cancer with the radical neck surgery and chemo/radiation, I immediately realized that I could not tolerate those smells any more. Hell, it took me almost 5 years just to be able to tolerate eating ketchup again!! I am ever so thankful that the technological advances on electrics are where they are today and improving as I speak, like Graphene batteries where I expect them to obsolete Lipos for safety, performance and longevity. So as Konrad indicated, look to the future and wrap your acceptance around the ever evolving technology. Alpha's last statement just hits the electric validation topic squarely on the nose!!
Best regards,

I do wish there was an electric version of a OV10. I think that is a awesome plane.

[Grossman56]

Well, Charlie's (OV10) is electric.

Grossman56

[Capt. Crunch]

That 80" Hangar 9 Piper Pawnee will be really nice on gas! Anything larger than 75" or so, aside from the Carbon Z Trojan, is liquid fuel for me at the moment. It's all my .40-.60 size stuff that I've almost universally converted to electric.

Post pictures when your Wagon is ready to go, Capt. Crunch!

Here's a sneak peak of my pilot...

[Stringbag]

My 2 cents on the gas/electric debate is this :

Having been in this game for almost 40 years now, I have seen a lot of "prototype" models attempted.
From POORLY built Mustangs and Spitfires to highly complex obscure designs. MOST failed.
Whilst I PERSONALLY baulk at spending $500+ on a bit of foam, it HAS allowed many unseen and rare models.
Few modellers attempted multi engine with IC, complexity and expense, and the risk of flameouts. The VAST majority of models had been singles, and types were invariably WW2, WW1 or between war biplanes.
Now the hobby is open to electric and turbines allowing types not often modeled before to be flown successfully. The LX and Dynam range are good examples of good foam arf's, with some very good models. An LX F4F with completely scale u/c is now available for under $200 USD in Australia. I couldn't source enough balsa to build one of equal size for less. Wood is almost too expensive now, and the foamies are getting more exotic and some are getting cheaper, not MORE expensive. And the BEST bit on the last line is, the GOOD ONES are the ones coming down in price. MUCH less money, MUCH HIGHER QUALITY foam and finishes.

I still run IC, and I guess I always will, but an electric that is clean and fits in the car untouched from home, to field to home again is cool...no field assembly or clean up is nice now and then. Take it out, add e-fuel tank, fly, put in car at end of day, come home. And not one rag needed, it does have it's merits......I will admit

I do wish there was an electric version of a OV10. I think that is a awesome plane.

Kind of like this, you mean ??

http://www.generalhobby.com/ov10e-br...ane-p-188.html

[OV10]

Kind of like this, you mean ??

http://www.generalhobby.com/ov10e-br...ane-p-188.html

There are none available including that one you linked. All we can hope for is a foamy to hit the scene.

[Pauly]

Yeah, it sold out almost as soon as it came out. I hope to get one day or like you said. Maybe there will be a foamy one day.

[Fastphil_v]

Hi all, first post on HS, though many of you look familiar from RCG...

I'm still fairly new to the hobby but a long time gearhead and tinkerer. Started with micro electric helis, quads and cars in my front yard a few years ago and "graduated" to park-sized and larger fixed wing aircraft early this year. I'm fortunate to have a nice AMA club field close by with 350' paved and grass runways, so I am gravitating to larger planes as my skills and budget allow. My first few planes were electric foamies which was the perfect way to start, but after awhile I felt I was flying toys while everyone else at the field was flying "real" balsa birds with glow or gas (and a growing number of big electric). Very little foam except for the students on Apprentices. So for me, it seems a natural progression to move into bigger balsa planes, EP and gas-powered, though I will probably skip glow altogether. I have been flying a 55" 3DHS Extra with ~1000W EP for a few months now and I think that size (~5lbs) is perfect for electric and I'm sure I'll get more like it. My latest is a 64" Yak54 with a DLE20, weighing in around 10lbs. It has been fun and challenging to get the hang of the DLE, but I've got it running pretty good now and its easy enough to hand-start. As far as the cost of new equipment for gas, all I bought is a dedicated 1 gal gas can from Lowes and a hand pump, fittings, filters, etc so I can refuel it - probably $30 all-in. Gas is very cheap these days and it uses the same Stihl oil as my yard equipment. An electric setup for this plane would have been more expensive I think - big motors and big batteries are pricey.

I like the sound of the gas motor, though it is pretty loud with stock exhaust - cannisters would be nice. Cleanup is not really an issue so far - it seems glow is much worse. I don't like the smell of gas on my hands, and the gas also makes this the first plane I can't really bring into the house to tinker with. Time will tell - it will be interesting to see what I have in another year - maybe all gas giants (man I'd love a big Moki or even a Saito 3 cyl), or maybe back to the simplicity of electric. But I really have to explore the gas route and get it out of my system. Phil

[Grossman56]

Hey Fastphil_v!
Welcome to the forum! The beauty of this hobby is that there are so many ways to go, so follow your passion. For me, it was warbirds and none looked better than the foamies to me.
I didn't want gas laying around and electric fit my needs/desires the best. I wasn't into tinkering with gas motors although a lot of my buddies here at the squawk fly both and at my club, I'm a minority, but that doesn't stop the camaraderie between guys who share the love of the hobby.
Hope you enjoy Hobby Squawk and especially the time you get flying your planes!!

Grossman56