Official E-flite 650mm Convergence VTOL Thread

[Mike_Then]

I had the "mysterious fall out of the sky for no apparent reason" issue. I was transitioning back to MR mode and it just nosed in from a few feet up. Aside from a broken servo arm and a slightly crinkled nose, there was no other damage. Wasn't a battery issue; had plenty left in the pack. Unfortunately, E-Flite decided to use servos that had a really odd spline count (20T) and even though I have what seems like 1,000 spare servo arms, none of them fit (of course). I found two Solar A107 MG servos that were a drop-in fit but the E-Flite servos must either be digital, or be of a specific pulse width or something because the Solar servos really acted strange. They even did what was opposite of what was commanded on the transmitter. So I called HH and they kindly sent me two replacement servo arms. I have yet to install them (the crash occured on NYD); other projects took priority such as my Super Scorpion and F/A-18E V2.

But I have to agree, when it flies, it flies great. But the sloppy programming in the flight controller (the oscillation when transitioning from MR to AP, the way it's so sensitive with no way to adjust it, the creep forward/no backwards in MR Stability Mode, the weird way it will sometimes just cock backwards at a 40-degree angle in MR for no reason, the hold-onto-your-butt instability of when it descends in MR/Acro mode) just really takes away from what should be a really cool product.

I've heard that the next batch of Convergences have been delayed 2-3 months? Wonder if they stopped production and made some adjustments? If that's the case, I sure hope they take care of early adopters/beta testers. I'm not asking for a new plane, but perhaps a new FC (in exchange for my old one) or even a software flash of my old one would be wonderful.... assuming they are making changes to the production line and assuming the FC is part of those adjustments of course.

[xviper]

the creep forward/no backwards in MR Stability Mode

I've heard that the next batch of Convergences have been delayed 2-3 months? Wonder if they stopped production and made some adjustments?

In post #76, I have a video of 2 of the 3 Connies that sometimes fly together. The 3rd guy with one was working. As you can see, there was no difficulty reversing for either and all 3 are pretty much stock except for a little bit of tweaking in the travel limits. Mine has the least noticeable oscillation on transition, while the other 2 are slightly more but the same. Except for the poor glue job on the rear motor pod on one of them. All have been quite solid. I think the big problem is QC or the lack of consistency therein and the wide variability of the flight controller programming.

It does make you wonder, doesn't it? It's a complicated model and they need to get every unit working right. There was a whole team of Tech and university engineers working on their own VTOL last year at our field. They never succeeded and gave up. It's a lot harder than we tend to think. The fact that Eflite managed to come up with the first mass produced VTOL at a reasonable price is quite amazing. The others on the market are very expensive and still don't work entirely right.

[Grayghost]

Quote ..... I sure hope they take care of early adopters/beta testers.

Don't hold your breath .... seems to me they never want to hear from us again !

and the feeling is mutual .... everything that I have up to this point is Horizon .... controller ... chargers ...batteries ... and several planes .... but the convergence is the last purchase form them for me!

[xviper]

Quote ..... I sure hope they take care of early adopters/beta testers.

Don't hold your breath .... seems to me they never want to hear from us again !

and the feeling is mutual .... everything that I have up to this point is Horizon .... controller ... chargers ...batteries ... and several planes .... but the convergence is the last purchase form them for me!

From what I can tell, the "early" owners of this plane did get taken care. That was a time when Horizon wanted to make sure they didn't send out a bad reputation for taking care of problems. However, there's been so many failures, complaints and calls to them that I think they can't take it anymore and have shut the door on this. I'm sure a few "insiders" will still get some help. At this stage, the "first batch" can be considered disposable. Good luck selling the ones to come.

[Grayghost]

I guess I will keep Glueing mine back together ... till I no longer can :(

[Brandon Moon]

From what I can tell, the "early" owners of this plane did get taken care. That was a time when Horizon wanted to make sure they didn't send out a bad reputation for taking care of problems. However, there's been so many failures, complaints and calls to them that I think they can't take it anymore and have shut the door on this. I'm sure a few "insiders" will still get some help. At this stage, the "first batch" can be considered disposable. Good luck selling the ones to come.

Yeah, they actually took pretty good care of me to replace the one I had to send back in, but it took a while to get it back. The simple fact that I've seen and read about so many problems with this plane is what is disappointing. Took my new replacement one out the other day and went in to flight mode and it took off straight a head, but had not turn ability at all and wouldn't transition back to Hoover...ended up shutting down and and watch it ditch into a berm and split into 3 pieces.if it's not one thing it's another :rolleyes:

This one definitely needs to go back the the drawing board and engineering dept. This plane was released too early and with too many problems and lacked good QC

[Grayghost]

so the new airframe is all broken again ... is it fixable ?
I am about to order a new airframe my self ... wonder if they are cheaper by the dozen LOL

[xviper]

so the new airframe is all broken again ... is it fixable ?
I am about to order a new airframe my self ... wonder if they are cheaper by the dozen LOL

You might want to figure out what's wrong with the flight controller before you spend too much money on airframes.

[Mike_Then]

I finally put the Convergence back together this morning. Installed the stock E-Flite servos with the replacement arms. Noticed one of the motor arms was cracked around the hole where the ball link goes so I glued it with CA and reinforced it with 1/64th lite ply on both sides. Also installed beefier pushrods and EZ connectors which made for a connection that had less slop. It took a few test hovers to get the motors lined up properly with the servos, so the Convergence would hover flat with the motors pointed straight up. Once I did that I got three flights in.... each better than the last. This is the best it has ever flown, and I like it all over again! No weird stuff (aside from the oscillation) during any of the transitions. I made sure to have NO back pressure on the elevator stick when flipping back to MR mode and I'm wondering if that's what caused that weird 30 degree tilt some have reported. I'm using a Pulse 25C 2700 mAh battery and I'm landing with about 40% left in the pack, and that's with two full transition cycles each flight. When this plane works right, it's a lot of fun!

[xviper]

I made sure to have NO back pressure on the elevator stick when flipping back to MR mode and I'm wondering if that's what caused that weird 30 degree tilt some have reported.

If you were in acro mode, airplane mode when you transitioned to MR, then yes. Transition always forces it to go to stability mode. Once it finishes the transition, it goes back to acro unless you flipped the switch during transition. Acro mode in MR amplifies the stick response and without the limiting aspect of stability mode, the slightest off-center position of the stick will cause a significant defection of the plane's orientation with respect to it's level-ness in each axis. It needs to be this way so you can do flips in every direction. It can't be mushy or self leveling. If the switch is in acro, be prepared to "fly" the plane and react to it as soon as it finishes the transition.

[Mike_Then]

If you were in acro mode, airplane mode when you transitioned to MR, then yes. Transition always forces it to go to stability mode. Once it finishes the transition, it goes back to acro unless you flipped the switch during transition. Acro mode in MR amplifies the stick response and without the limiting aspect of stability mode, the slightest off-center position of the stick will cause a significant defection of the plane's orientation with respect to it's level-ness in each axis. It needs to be this way so you can do flips in every direction. It can't be mushy or self leveling. If the switch is in acro, be prepared to "fly" the plane and react to it as soon as it finishes the transition.

Yes I fly both MR and AP in acro mode. Stability mode is just too limiting for me (and too weird to be honest). Each time I flew yesterday, I made sure the plane was straight/level and no stick input from the right stick, and flipped the switch. Each transition was smooth and didn't have any problems. What also helped is that it was a dead-calm day. But I'm liking it again!

[Cv580atp]

Xviper2, I really like your approach to test flying, and since you are the resident expert here in this wonderful community, I have a question for you. My Convergence just arrived, and even though I ordered the Plug-n-Play version, the good people at Motion substituted a Bind-n-Fly at no extra charge since the pnp's don't seem to be coming. Anyway, I have been following all this activity and plan to do a thorough preflight inspection. In a previous message you mentioned re-glueing and reinforcing the "rear motor pod" due to failures. Are you referencing the two piece plastic mount that attaches to the metal boom and actually acts as the rear motor mount?
Thanks for your help, and thanks for sharing all the great research you have performed on this bird!

[xviper]

Xviper2, I really like your approach to test flying, and since you are the resident expert here in this wonderful community, I have a question for you. My Convergence just arrived, and even though I ordered the Plug-n-Play version, the good people at Motion substituted a Bind-n-Fly at no extra charge since the pnp's don't seem to be coming. Anyway, I have been following all this activity and plan to do a thorough preflight inspection. In a previous message you mentioned re-glueing and reinforcing the "rear motor pod" due to failures. Are you referencing the two piece plastic mount that attaches to the metal boom and actually acts as the rear motor mount?
Thanks for your help, and thanks for sharing all the great research you have performed on this bird!

Actually, no, it's that foam cover that fits from below. The rear motor pod extends out from that cover. If you look carefully (from the rear) into the cavity inside that cover, you will see that the motor pod is somehow connected to the cover. The cover is only glued on at the two side seams. It's that seam that can come loose with vibration and time. Some covers are glued better than others. For insurance, I wicked in some CA and applied a strip of hinge tape over each seam. I've attached a picture to show you that cover (note the hinge tape on the seam that can give way). Admittedly, the hinge tape is overkill. I'm sure the added CA in the seams will be enough, but I fly mine several times a week and I didn't ever want to worry about it. If that cover drops down, so does the whole rear motor. The flight controller then goes crazy trying to keep the thing level and it just can't. Thanks for the compliment but I'm not really an "expert" on this plane. I just consider myself extremely lucky to have gotten a glitch free example and having read all about the problems, I've done the best I can to address the quirks and deficiencies. I've also flown mine a lot so I've tried different things with it to see how much I can push the flight controller before it has a brain fart. I've had one such brain fart but was quick to throw the switch to stability mode before the plane reached the ground upside down under high power.

[Cv580atp]

Thanks Xviper2! One picture says a thousand words. A quick inspection so far has revealed no problem there, I did find a loose ball link on the left nacelle and will be checking everything else you fellows have mentioned. I am sure that all this shared information has probably saved my airplane. What a great resource! Thanks to all! Rick

[xviper]

Speaking of ball links, my friend's Connie had such loose ones, one actually popped off to the inside of the ball. Mine were so tight, it created too much friction that the ball couldn't easily move inside the ring. I added a drop of silicone spray and worked it in. Too loose and it pops off and you have very sloppy control or if it pops off to the outside, it loses control. Too tight and it can crack the ring and it loses control. Same thing with the screws holding the bottom clam shell for each main nacelle. The front one can't be too tight or the servo may not have enough strength to move the rotation arm - can result in a burnt out servo. Check each ESC connection inside each nacelle. Mine had 2 that were barely plugged in. My friend had one that fell out when he removed the clam shell.

[Brandon Moon]

Yeah, I've been through two of them now the quality control and reliability on this plane is not up to par IMO, and both have had bad problems.....When it works?...it flys nice and is cool to play with, but that's only when it works right ;)

[Aros]

test

[StormyDog1962]

Finally I was able to snag one of these and have gotten a few flights on it. Mine is probably at least a second or third run and I had no issue with the Binding of the plane. The only hiccup so far is the bucking it does when transitioning to Forward Flight. Gonna have to turn up the throw on this as I was starting to wonder if I will ever get it to turn. Looks to be almost a football field in length to complete the transition. So far going back to Hover was uneventful. Next step turning off the Stability Mode.

[xviper]

Finally I was able to snag one of these and have gotten a few flights on it. Mine is probably at least a second or third run and I had no issue with the Binding of the plane. The only hiccup so far is the bucking it does when transitioning to Forward Flight. Gonna have to turn up the throw on this as I was starting to wonder if I will ever get it to turn. Looks to be almost a football field in length to complete the transition. So far going back to Hover was uneventful. Next step turning off the Stability Mode.

I think that "bucking" happens to some degree or another to all of them. The 3 at my field all do that and we've just gotten used to it. It doesn't seem to result in anything bad happening. Just make sure it's got at least hovering throttle before the transition or it may sink after the transition.
I've got my rates at max and even added more throws. In stability mode, it doesn't seem to make much difference as the limiter defeats most of what you put in. However, I've also found that if I want to reduce the area in which it needs to fly, I reduce speed a bit and use plenty of rudder input. This helps it to come around in a much tighter turn. Be careful not to reduce throttle too much or it could start to "wallow" in the turn. Using this technique, I can do a circuit in about the size of a baseball diamond (~1/2 a football field).
I've also found that sometimes, when coming back into hover mode, it can get a bit squirrelly (the hover version of the bucking you described). This is more evident when the transition from airplane to hover is done at lower throttle. I also find that I can reduce this and fly it much better in "acro" mode in both airplane and MC configuration but this can be quite touchy and requires the sticks to be fairly well centered when the switch is thrown. At that time, also go to mid or low rates. There's a lot of things to think about and a lot of switch activity going on with this plane just to have a smooth flight. The "brains" of this thing can get overloaded easily at times. Nevertheless, I still really love flying this. Cheap thrills.

[xviper]

Well, my Convergence's flight controller finally had a "brain fart" that was not recoverable. In fact, it's the second one. I fixed it after the first incident and it flew quite well for a while. The latest one, it flipped upside down after the transition back to MC mode and came down that way. I'll fix it again (eventually) and fly it again but .......................................

Look at this ................... It would seem that someone else has taken a similar approach to this flight controller (maybe even stole it and tweaked it) but put it into a plane that is more "recognizable". It still seems to have that slight bobble at transition but due to its size, it's more subdued. (Look at their video). I like the way the pods rotate (via the center vs from one end in the Connie). Price is reasonable but I'm not sure how well customer service will look after you when something goes wrong.

http://www.bananahobby.com/5-ch-blitzrcworks-vtol-v-22-osprey-rc-warbird-airplane-arf.html