Freewing Mirage 2000C V2 “Tiger Meet” 80mm EDF - Official Thread

[Mizer67]

Maiden today and wow I'm impressed. This thing with the same in runner motor and fan as the performance Avanti. OMG. High speed, high alpha for days and effortless, near as dammit 5 min flight time on 4000 60c 6s Admiral. Light burner with foil tape inside to help it reflect. Looks incredible. And the hobby eagle A3L gyro really helps lock it in. I'm gonna enjoy flying this one a lot!

My favorite jet FW makes also. You'll enjoy this one. The performance is great for a scale jet. I'm on my third, plus have a spare kit en-route, just in case they stop making it or are out of stock.

Wish they'd stick an 80mm fan in more scale jets that are approximately this size and weight.

[Carlbrainiac]

Maiden today and wow I'm impressed. This thing with the same in runner motor and fan as the performance Avanti. OMG. High speed, high alpha for days and effortless, near as dammit 5 min flight time on 4000 60c 6s Admiral. Light burner with foil tape inside to help it reflect. Looks incredible. And the hobby eagle A3L gyro really helps lock it in. I'm gonna enjoy flying this one a lot!

[Mizer67]

I don't have the right connections to test watts at the moment unfortunately on my watt meter. The FW specs say 2250W & 100A.

I assume it's inflated, but still think something's off with this motor I have, it's just not as strong as it should be. Need to check it with another battery, re-calibrate the throttle and see if I can make a difference.

[Evan D]

I haven't done a thrust test but mine with that motor does really well. I have measured A&W and get 103.7A and 2251.5W.

[Mizer67]

Question for the group:

I recently purchased a replacement 1857kv 80mm 12 bld EDF for my re-built Mirage. It's putting out 2010 grams of thrust at peak (fully charged ~25.2 volts) on a "true" 30C battery, which is approximately the same as the unit it replaced which if I recall correctly had a lower kv (1800 kv if I recall correctly) and was an outrunner.

I'm thinking there's something wrong with mine. This one should do 3200 grams (or more) out of the airframe according to the FW specs I've seen at a constant 25.2 volts. With a 20% loss from install, it should be more like ~2400 grams installed.

I think I got a bad motor. Can anyone confirm actual installed thrust numbers in grams for their plane with the same motor?

[Evan D]

Go for it!

[Carlbrainiac]

how have people got on with the recommended 520mm - 530mm c of g? Is that pretty good? If not where are you guys at?
also does it make much of a difference measuring c of g with gear up vs gear down?

Only reason i ask is because I have my 5000 admiral in. I have pushed it back till it stops but haven't had to remove any foam or anything to get it back further. And with gear up my c of g is sitting at 525mm. Smack bang in the middle of recommended.

I'm not running the drop tanks nor have I glued in the rails but I have installed the heavier in runner with 12 blade fan from the performance Avanti. Also got a light burner. And gyro and rx sit in the void behind the battery.

Thoughts??

[Mizer67]

inadvertent double

[Mizer67]

Ahh to hell with it. Just placed my order lol. Will deal with issues later. Ordered the same in runner and 12 blade fan I put in my Avanti too. Getting off grass shouldn't be an issue now 😁

I've never had an issue off rough grass, even with the earlier power system (V1).

It does take 200 ft. of ground run when pulling <80 amps like the original. I think with the 12-bld. inrunner it should be able to pop off in ~100 - 150 ft.

I think you'll be pleased. If you're running the 5000's though, I'd push them back as far as physically possible, then a bit more. It flies best with a rearward CG and makes grass T/O shorter. If you're still having trouble, which I doubt, increase the elevator.

[xviper]

Ahh to hell with it. Just placed my order lol. Will deal with issues later. Ordered the same in runner and 12 blade fan I put in my Avanti too. Getting off grass shouldn't be an issue now 😁

Not all grass is the same. My runway is very bumpy grass that's not cut very short. Very few of my jets can take off from there. If it's cut to a reasonable RC runway length, you should be fine. As the depth increases, the power needed to take off increases exponentially.

[Carlbrainiac]

I was just about to click buy but been put off now by a few things. Not good on grass performance and week nose leg. And if my 5000s won't fit and perform the way I want it to then make no sense for me to buy 4000s because I wouldn't use them in any other plane. I'll hold off for my next jet and wait and see what freewing releases next. Hoping for maybe a hawker hunter but the appeal of a high alpha delta is still tempting

Ahh to hell with it. Just placed my order lol. Will deal with issues later. Ordered the same in runner and 12 blade fan I put in my Avanti too. Getting off grass shouldn't be an issue now 😁

[Carlbrainiac]

I was just about to click buy but been put off now by a few things. Not good on grass performance and week nose leg. And if my 5000s won't fit and perform the way I want it to then make no sense for me to buy 4000s because I wouldn't use them in any other plane. I'll hold off for my next jet and wait and see what freewing releases next. Hoping for maybe a hawker hunter but the appeal of a high alpha delta is still tempting

[Mizer67]

I'm thinking of picking on of these up. Question though. I only have admiral 5000s. Dont really want to buy some 4000s as they would only be used in this model. But will she still high alpha ok with a heavier 5000?
Also as I'll be carrying the additional weight of the 5000 pack would it make sense to go for the in runner upgrade? I see this upgrade is currently out of stock but would the 80mm Avanti in runner motor and fan work?
Also anyone flying this model with the A3L V2 3 axis gyro? Is it worth it? Does it need it? Guess you would have it turned off for high speed to prevent oscillation and just have it on for take off and landing. Have never used a gyro before and they do make me a little nervous. Just something else to go wrong and think about and also if the gyro is correcting everything I guess it makes it more difficult in some cases for example where as you'll normally get a stall warning when she drops a wing. If the gyro prevents the drop wing then could easily miss the fact that she's stalling...

Any help and advice greatly appreciated. Will be my first delta wing

Also if I do opt for the gyro then the gyro has delta wing setting so what setting would I have my Futaba 14SG transmitter set to when it asks for wing type..

I think they're out of stock just about everywhere. I've been looking for one. But to answer your questions:

1.) I'd stick with 4000's. Light ones if able and they need to be on the thin side about ~42-43mm. You can't jam 5000's far enough back for my liking for the plane not to fly nose heavy, even with a small amount of foam carving. While it'll handle the extra weight, if flies better without it. To me, it'd be worth it having the 4000's if you want to high alpha and to keep extra weight off of the nose gear, but I'm flying mine with the CG pretty far to the rear. This is my favorite plane, so I want it to perform as well as possible and it'll do that with something in the 4000 range and ~600 grams.

2.) I don't know what motor you're referring to, as the only 80mm Avanti listed on MRC is the high performance inrunner. That 1857kv 12-bld. motor should be an excellent combo with a 100A ESC. I've flown it on the older 3530 12-blade ~1900kv outrunner and the performance is still good, but more thrust is better, particularly for punching out of high alpha.

3.) I've flown it with the A3L (no V2) and it does benefit from it some. It numbs down the roll, which helps as mentioned it's a drill bit even with only using ~50% of the throw available. It's not as sensitive in pitch and I tend to like a fair amount of throw there for high alpha. I didn't have any issue with high speed oscillation, but I had the gain cranked down and ended up replacing the rudder servo with one that was very fast moving. Be careful to triple check your control surface corrections though, as I made a mistake with my first Mirage in setup on the gyro and it made it uncontrollable in roll even with tiny movements - it would go into a full deflection spin. The gyro and my mistake cost me that plane. Just make sure whatever you do to really tame down the factory throws before maiden.

4.) I find the plane almost impossible to stall, with power on. It dumps energy quickly in turns, like the real thing, but won't fall out or snap..it just kind of lets you know it's not happy by not going the direction you want and falling off to the side. It will even hover reasonably well and with a hot 6S setup has almost unlimited vertical. If you learn to fly nose high, it can be flown at almost a walking pace...loads of fun.

I have no trouble getting off grass. The nose gear is a weak point though. I modded my most recent one with an F-86 nose gear I had lying around and that made it even better as that gear is stronger and has a larger wheel for grass ops. It isn't scale of course, but you can't tell once you suck up the gear. Eventually that nose gear will wear out if you fly off grass though. I've gone through four, where eventually it'll stall out trying to retract on the spring that closes the gear door.

The entire nose could use some carbon spars as it's pretty thin and takes a beating on grass, but it's not mandatory. The nose gear will eventually flex backward and break the plywood tray if you aren't gentle on it, so I tend to reinforce mine at the rear of the retract itself with a small piece of square carbon rod, which stops the flex.

Finally, if you're serious about rough grass, remove the main gear doors or trim them at least ~1.5", as eventually they'll get snagged and pull off.

I'd love a V3 and when I lost my second one due to an ESC failure, I looked everywhere for parts to repair it. If I ever lose #3, I'll buy another. It's the most flexible and fun jet Freewing makes. Love the size, ease of transport and of course the performance. Wish they'd make a few more models like it, but they have gone larger with the 80mms.

[Carlbrainiac]

I turned mine into a hand tosser as it couldn't get off the grass runway with those little wheels. All retracts are removed to make it lighter and I have an upgraded inrunner in it. I fly it with a 4000, 6s battery and it's pushed back quite far and it's still a bit nose heavy. After it's thrown, it'll high alpha for a little while till it picks up speed. I also run it with a gyro (A3L). A gyro must be set properly with the gain just below the oscillation point at max speed for a given plane. If you don't understand how a gyro works, then yeah, it'll make you nervous. This plane as a hand tosser needs the gyro and a little reflex (UP elevator) or it'll torque itself into the ground. When set properly, the gyro also tames it down quite a bit when in normal flight. This thing is fast and rolls are particularly fast if rates aren't dialed down. The gyro helps to stop the roll instantly so it's less easy to over spin. No, a gyro won't defy the laws of physics. If it's going too slow, it will still stall and roll over. A gyro won't stop that.
This plane is supposed to fast, so in my mind, the faster the better. If you go to RC Castle, you can look up in the spare parts and upgrade section, what the thrust of each of your EDF choices are. You know how much the plane weighs, so looking at the thrust will give you a good idea of how much punch a particular EDF will have. If you like to high alpha, you'll need enough punch to drive the thing out of high alpha and back to normal flight.
When you use a gyro like the HobbyEagle, wing type settings are always done in the gyro. The TX stays on "normal wing/tail". Gyros always supercede wing type in the TX.

Quite surprised to hear it struggles to get off on a grass run way? Have seen videos of it getting off just fine. I hate hand launching and belly landing. But thanks for the tips and advise

[xviper]

I'm thinking of picking on of these up. Question though. I only have admiral 5000s. Dont really want to buy some 4000s as they would only be used in this model. But will she still high alpha ok with a heavier 5000?
Also as I'll be carrying the additional weight of the 5000 pack would it make sense to go for the in runner upgrade? I see this upgrade is currently out of stock but would the 80mm Avanti in runner motor and fan work?
Also anyone flying this model with the A3L V2 3 axis gyro? Is it worth it? Does it need it? Guess you would have it turned off for high speed to prevent oscillation and just have it on for take off and landing. Have never used a gyro before and they do make me a little nervous. Just something else to go wrong and think about and also if the gyro is correcting everything I guess it makes it more difficult in some cases for example where as you'll normally get a stall warning when she drops a wing. If the gyro prevents the drop wing then could easily miss the fact that she's stalling...

Any help and advice greatly appreciated. Will be my first delta wing

Also if I do opt for the gyro then the gyro has delta wing setting so what setting would I have my Futaba 14SG transmitter set to when it asks for wing type..

I turned mine into a hand tosser as it couldn't get off the grass runway with those little wheels. All retracts are removed to make it lighter and I have an upgraded inrunner in it. I fly it with a 4000, 6s battery and it's pushed back quite far and it's still a bit nose heavy. After it's thrown, it'll high alpha for a little while till it picks up speed. I also run it with a gyro (A3L). A gyro must be set properly with the gain just below the oscillation point at max speed for a given plane. If you don't understand how a gyro works, then yeah, it'll make you nervous. This plane as a hand tosser needs the gyro and a little reflex (UP elevator) or it'll torque itself into the ground. When set properly, the gyro also tames it down quite a bit when in normal flight. This thing is fast and rolls are particularly fast if rates aren't dialed down. The gyro helps to stop the roll instantly so it's less easy to over spin. No, a gyro won't defy the laws of physics. If it's going too slow, it will still stall and roll over. A gyro won't stop that.
This plane is supposed to fast, so in my mind, the faster the better. If you go to RC Castle, you can look up in the spare parts and upgrade section, what the thrust of each of your EDF choices are. You know how much the plane weighs, so looking at the thrust will give you a good idea of how much punch a particular EDF will have. If you like to high alpha, you'll need enough punch to drive the thing out of high alpha and back to normal flight.
When you use a gyro like the HobbyEagle, wing type settings are always done in the gyro. The TX stays on "normal wing/tail". Gyros always supercede wing type in the TX.

[Carlbrainiac]

I'm thinking of picking on of these up. Question though. I only have admiral 5000s. Dont really want to buy some 4000s as they would only be used in this model. But will she still high alpha ok with a heavier 5000?
Also as I'll be carrying the additional weight of the 5000 pack would it make sense to go for the in runner upgrade? I see this upgrade is currently out of stock but would the 80mm Avanti in runner motor and fan work?
Also anyone flying this model with the A3L V2 3 axis gyro? Is it worth it? Does it need it? Guess you would have it turned off for high speed to prevent oscillation and just have it on for take off and landing. Have never used a gyro before and they do make me a little nervous. Just something else to go wrong and think about and also if the gyro is correcting everything I guess it makes it more difficult in some cases for example where as you'll normally get a stall warning when she drops a wing. If the gyro prevents the drop wing then could easily miss the fact that she's stalling...

Any help and advice greatly appreciated. Will be my first delta wing

Also if I do opt for the gyro then the gyro has delta wing setting so what setting would I have my Futaba 14SG transmitter set to when it asks for wing type..

[davecee]

Answered at the other place you asked the same question...

Sure to miss some folks if I only ask in one place.

[Evan D]

Answered at the other place you asked the same question...

[davecee]

Intermittant nose gear door issue. My nose gear retract is stopping before closing the door, the gear wil not fully retract sometimes. as if the clever spring mechanism is too stiff for the retract to overcome it's resistance. Everything is free, no obstruction or binding. It worked fine for several flights. It will work inverted on the stand, but not always when upright. I guess gravity give's the retract a bit of help when inverted. Anyone else seen this? Any advise?

[Evan D]

Motion polled us about putting in-runners in all their EDFs. It'll happen but over time.