Should we put Inrunners in all 90mm jets?

[JamesonC]

My vote is very much YES! I always go the inrunner route on EDFs when possible from you guys. I don't mind a small increase in price when you can see what you are getting for it. For example, I just bought the F35 as a PNP for $279. That is $50 more than I paid for my 70mm Hawk from you guys. But, between the gear and the inrunner setup, I saw more than $50 in value there, even though the F35 has no lighting and the Hawk does. I did purchase the upgraded gear for the Hawk and now, after playing with the F35, am waiting on the 2210kv inrunner/fan combo to come in stock to stick one in the Hawk as well.

Point here is, I don't mind the price increase for an increase in the product I receive! Go for it! :Cool:

[RCjetdude]

I would be down for that as well.

[Twowingtj]

Based on the info you put in post #8 and #9, a solid Yes.

[Beeg]

We've done some initial testing in our environment with the same batteries. We're thinking we can get about 10-15% more thrust and 20% to 40% more flight time depending on the exact configuration we use. That is mixed throttle flying. If you fly 100% throttle all the time, you'll still see the extra thrust but you will only see about 5% more flight time. Like gooniac said, the configuration we're looking at shines in a mixed throttle environment. Would you rather stick with the current configuration and keep the price the same or should we put in a new inrunner setup which will cost us about $20-$30 more?

For the marginal cost increase and overall benefits I agree with the decision whole heartedly to go with inrunners.

[Tom]

Evan D, You are a great customer and I don't want to start a big argument with you so I'll just say this. I looked at your order history.

Of your purchases, 8 went up in price, 6 went down in price, 2 stayed the same. To make that pricing happen over the years has taken a ton of effort. Yes, FMS planes went up in price but that had nothing to do with Motion RC. FMS increased MAP price many times and we had to comply. When Horizon took over they brand, they also raised the prices. Perhaps I did not make it clear enough that I was talking about Freewing/Flightline and not other brands like FMS where someone else has always dictated the pricing.

Now I'm hoping we can get back to discussing potentially using the inrunner vs the outrunner. Evan D, if you would like to talk more about pricing feel free to shoot me a PM with a time you would like to talk on the phone. I'm happy to call you.

[Evan D]

Edit; To everybody, I apologize for my off topic discussion about prices, even though I consider it important in the big picture. I think some will be unhappy with any price increase for any reason. I also want to apologize to Tom and Motion, they are awesome at what they do and give us products and support at a level no other RC company does. I've been a loyal customer (maybe outspoken but loyal) since they started selling their wares. I remember early on their explanations about not having inrunner PNP EDFs due to costs. And even though I got off topic let me say again (for like the fourth time) I personally think it's a great idea to go to inrunners and that $20-30 is okay with me. I trust Motion, and Alpha to come up with airplanes with lighting/ power systems/ options/ upgrades that are thought out to return a high level of value.

Edit over...

Tom, my point was that you have raised your prices (I was talking specifically FW and added Fl to the mix).

Your statement you haven't raised prices in six years was simply not true.

I also said I understand that it is normal for prices to go up and it's part of doing business.


All the items I said went up did go up. The prices you listed that are different than what I said are that way because they are "on sale" right now after the raise in prices. And I have to say it's not very professional to have listed what you did.


By the way my name is Evan.

Even D, You are a great customer and I don't want to start a big argument with you so I'll just say this. I looked at your order history.

Of your purchases, 8 went up in price, 6 went down in price, 2 stayed the same. To make that pricing happen over the years has taken a ton of effort. Yes, FMS planes went up in price but that had nothing to do with Motion RC. FMS increased MAP price many times and we had to comply. When Horizon took over they brand, they also raised the prices. Perhaps I did not make it clear enough that I was talking about Freewing/Flightline and not other brands like FMS where someone else has always dictated the pricing.

Now I'm hoping we can get back to discussing potentially using the inrunner vs the outrunner. Evan D, if you would like to talk more about pricing feel free to shoot me a PM with a time you would like to talk on the phone. I'm happy to call you.

[Radar-Guy]

My vote is Yes! Efficiency is the key!

[Brinka]

Flight time means everything for me now, I noticed better flight times with the updated 70mm or 80mm jets (4-5 min) and have steered clear of those 3 min 90mm jets, they’re great and all but certainly lack the power and flight times. If tested in-runners provide better efficiency for your products and they will cost a few bucks more. I don’t believe the consumer should pay that extra cost, I think Motion RC should find a way to handle that situation. Of course we all want the better motor but to ask us to pay more for products to work the way they’re supposed, is a slippery slope, most of the hard core pilots will indeed purchase at extra cost, but those on a budget probably won’t buy in.

Parts are becoming cheaper all over the internet for all RC products, I’m sure efficient in runners will lower in price.

And also Tom, I understand where you’re coming from, but I myself was shocked that you were providing a customers purchase history on a thread, that was unprofessional and publicly Invasive. Not cool dude. All though that person came off confrontational and was trying to make point about price hikes, you shouldn’t ever reply as you did.

[Tom]

Evan and I talked. All is good. I worded a post poorly making it sound like we never had a price increase. What I meant to say was we never had a Freewing/Flightline price increase before the recent one, and even then, half went down or stayed the same. When we had that price increase, I learned we need to talk to customers and provide warning hence the reason for this post. I want to know what the community thinks because inrunners are more expensive, no way around that. I want to know if all of you want to see us do this. So far, it seems the majority are all for this but I'd to hear from more people.

[RCjetdude]

I figured that was what you meant Tom. Written text is sometimes easily miscommunicated and misunderstood. I am glad you are sensitive to this issue of price increases enough to ask. HobbySquawk is a good place to start the dialogue but not all Motion RC customers are on the Squawk. I suggest possibly reaching out as well on the FB groups and RCG. Even then there will still be people who did not know a price increase was coming or for what reason if it comes to that but the community at large that does know can help mitigate any negative feedback.

[GBLynden]

The answer is yes and that applies to all of the premium RC Jets. Let's add lights to that as well. I will always pay a little more for a plane with longer flight times and at least some lights.

GB

[Aros]

I will add my two pennies in...Absolutely I would have no problem paying extra for the inrunner motors.

[dtop]

I've always been a fan (no pun) of inrunner motors and would love to see them available in all EDF jets. I'm not an expert but it seems to me they are higher quality in addition to more powerful. I upgraded my FW 70mm F-16 to an inrunner after being very disappointed with the stock outrunner and couldn't be happier with its performance. Take-off roll was substantially reduced and the plane is a delight to fly. I have an inrunner on order for one of my 80mm jets. As someone else mentioned, having a stabilizing receiver available would also be a huge plus. E-Flite does it for around $30 which is an outstanding value and they are also putting inrunners in many of their new EDFs like the F-4 and the Havoc.

[RuthR720]

My vote is yes. Team up with JP Hobby. I installed a 6S unit in my F-4 Phantom and the performance was outstanding! My Phantom took off in 50 feet which is almost the scale equivalent of a catapult shot. I have an 8S Raptor and I won’t be going that route any longer.

https://youtu.be/a9chPXS8_iE

[T-CAT]

My vote is yes. Team up with JP Hobby. I installed a 6S unit in my F-4 Phantom and the performance was outstanding! My Phantom took off in 50 feet which is almost the scale equivalent of a catapult shot. I have an 8S Raptor and I won’t be going that route any longer.
https://youtu.be/a9chPXS8_iE

Ruth, JP power systems contain outrunner motors.

[RCjetdude]

My vote is yes. Team up with JP Hobby. I installed a 6S unit in my F-4 Phantom and the performance was outstanding! My Phantom took off in 50 feet which is almost the scale equivalent of a catapult shot. I have an 8S Raptor and I won’t be going that route any longer.
https://youtu.be/a9chPXS8_iE

I have an 8S JP fan in one of my phantoms and while it flies good it is nothing spectacular. I love how my 8S Raptor flies even with the extra weight of all my mods but to T-CAT's point, JP fans are outrunners.

[RuthR720]

Thanks for the info cat. Inrunner/outrunner doesn’t matter to me. If it performs better I’m all for it.

[gooniac33]

I have no issue with price increases when there is value attached to it. Things getting better are good and worth the money to me. Also keep in mind that the best value out there right now is your 90mm F-15! It has oh so much stuff packed in there and with the new set ups it totally worth the money! Do more planes along those lines and the price increase won't matter! Not to me anyway...

[EDFjetpilot]

Tom,

First, thanks for asking.

Second, yes, I'd pay more for a better performing EDF as long as I don't have to modify it myself.

Third, be careful not to kill that better performance by adding extra (heavy) features. Lights and servo driven gear doors are cool, but they add weight. I recommend standardizing features so customers know what to expect: lights or no lights; gear doors or no gear doors, oleo or trailing link (grass capable) gear, etc.

Finally, the thrust-to-weight ratio needs to be better than .76 at mean sea level with your standard 6S/5000. At that point, these aircraft are starting to perform as jet aircraft should. Also, a 3 1/2 minute flight from takeoff roll to timer going off to set up for landing with three 7 second full throttle passes/climbs in between would be ideal.

Appreciate you considering my input,

Sean

[HellHathNoFury]

I have no issue with price increases when there is value attached to it. Things getting better are good and worth the money to me. Also keep in mind that the best value out there right now is your 90mm F-15! It has oh so much stuff packed in there and with the new set ups it totally worth the money! Do more planes along those lines and the price increase won't matter! Not to me anyway...

Please no Porkers like the F-15/16 .. Stick with the current direction of the new F-18 Hornet .. Less Bling equals more Zing & Bang with the Inrunners :Cool: