Please give me your thoughts on my next "possible" next project (B-58 Hustler) .........

[CVA59]

I'm wanting to get guys’ thoughts, suggestions, concerns, and overall input on building this monumental project? I am thinking of using (4ea.) 90mm (6S powered) EDF’s. I have no clue what the final weight will be. However, it will be all balsa built up with scale custom LG. Of course, I will build it as light as possible. What do you all see as problems and issues I will face based on what you know so far? This is one of the most beautiful high level Bombers ever to grace the skies and I really would like to model it provided it can be done based on my power sources.

[Beeg]

Go for it!

This is a really old one with nitro fans that was a favorite at the time. Would be curious how it would have flown with modern construction and EDF's. That nose gear is going to be tricky.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meF68d4MvYc

[CVA59]

Go for it!

This is a really old one with nitro fans that was a favorite at the time. Would be curious how it would have flown with modern construction and EDF's. That nose gear is going to be tricky.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meF68d4MvYc

Thanks Beeg.........I am seriously considering it. I am going to redraw everything from scratch in AutoCAD since that's what I do for a living. I want to make sure I trim out every ounce of weight I can and still keep it sturdy. Yes, I do plan to duplicate the nose and main gears exactly or as close to scale as I can. With my limited machining resources that might be tricky. My biggest concerns are the power. I'm sure 4 90mm fans will move it but will that be enough power on 4 6s 5000 packs to move it with authority and not be lumbering around. It is an absolutely gorgeous plane that is begging to be modeled. Not sure what the final covering would be as weight is a big factor but some kind of aluminum or simulated aluminium will have to be used to make it look right.

[MANFRED]

All depends on the scale and weight of course. 4 90mms would put out a ton of power but you will still most likely only get under 4 min of flying.

[CVA59]

All depends on the scale and weight of course. 4 90mms would put out a ton of power but you will still most likely only get under 4 min of flying.

Correct, and there lies the only issue I have with EDF's, the flying times are a disgrace, LOL. I am unfortunately aware of the 3-4 minute times. From a power perspective, maybe I should consider 80's instead?

[Beeg]

If cost wasn't a factor these little bad boys would be the ticket. Xicoy X45

https://www.jetsmuntusa.com/products/xicoy-x45

[CVA59]

If cost wasn't a factor these little bad boys would be the ticket. Xicoy X45

https://www.jetsmuntusa.com/products/xicoy-x45

Sir, you are EXACTLY RIGHT, LOL. I have already drooled over building this plane with (4) X45's. That would be AWESOME!!! I need to start a "GoFundMe" page, hahahaha.

[Radar-Guy]

Did you consider going for 10s instead of 6s per fan? The additional battery weight will be negligible at least or most probably be even advantageous, you might end with a powered glider otherwise. Such a setup would give you close to 4kg thrust per fan at a max Amp draw below 80 Amp. Why do so many people consider a high-Amp 6s 90mm setup a good solution?

[CVA59]

Did you consider going for 10s instead of 6s per fan? The additional battery weight will be negligible at least or most probably be even advantageous, you might end with a powered glider otherwise. Such a setup would give you close to 4kg thrust per fan at a max Amp draw below 80 Amp. Why do so many people consider a high-Amp 6s 90mm setup a good solution?

I have not considered it. However, that is the intention of my post. I am hoping for new ideas such as you have given me. That sounds like a good plan for sure. I am not looking for all out speed, mainly looking for scale flight but i don't want a glider either. So, what size fans, ESC's and packs would you put into such a build? Thanks

[Radar-Guy]

I have not considered it. However, that is the intention of my post. I am hoping for new ideas such as you have given me. That sounds like a good plan for sure. I am not looking for all out speed, mainly looking for scale flight but i don't want a glider either. So, what size fans, ESC's and packs would you put into such a build? Thanks

At first, did you already do some basic calculations regarding the scale factor depending on 80 or 90mm fans and the resulting size of the model?
I just did a very rough and quick calculation based on your drawing. Based on a 90mm fan housed in a 115mm nacelle, I’m getting a scale of 1:9. Fuselage length 128 in, wingspan 75 in. Quite impressive!
I’d suggest to put your drawing into the CAD and do some simple measurements based on the nacelle size.

Frank

[Elbee]

CVA59 do you have a scale in mind. As RG wrote with 90 mm the model is quite large in comparison to what is available. My point is could 64-70 mm work in your application? Acknowledged and Agreed; B-58 Hustler is a beauty and one of my favorites as a kid to build, though I couldn't get the 'silver' finish to look like the 'box-art' and of course there all those pesky fingerprints. Interested in your project for sure. Are you thinking foam, balsa, hybrid with both? Inquisitively, LB

[Beeg]

Either that or maybe make the nacelles 10% oversize? Wonder if that would ruin the "look".

[CVA59]

Hey guys. No, I have not yet done any calculations. I have to admit, I have 30+ years experience in building and flying GAS prop planes but I am only 2 years into the world of EDF's. I am relying on you guys to help me get the numbers right. I do want the plane as large as I can get away with and not go larger than a 90mm fan. I am planning to build the fuse in 2 sections and the of course the wings will be removable.

Since I work as an a AutoCAD draftsman, I am planning to redraw this entire plane in CAD for accuracy and to afford me the ability to modify and manipulate things as I need to. Based on re scaling the print scale to match the fan size, I am at fuse length of 9' +/- right now.

Guys, I have no clue about calculating things. I know this is a bass-ackwards way of doing it but I had planned to start off by sizing the plane size around the fan size. However, I am not real sure that will prove to be the best way of doing it. I want the plane to be of exact scale and I will be using all balsa, no foam.

I'm doing this plane like this because:

• 1. I LOVE this aircraft.
• 2. I want something that no one else has modeled in this size.
• 3. I had rather scratch build from balsa than foam.
• 4. I might even (provided everything works out) market the plans and possibly a short kit once it has been a proven design.

[CVA59]

Love the lines of this aircraft

[Radar-Guy]

I don't see any reason why an EDF model of the B-58 based on a plan retaining the scale outlines incl. nacelle sizes shouldn't result in a nice and impressive model with a "healthy" thrust-to-weight ratio. The biggest challenge is the landing gear (that's why I never considered building one from scratch), but I understand that you have the skills and access to machinery to get it done. Building the Hustler all-wood is the best option IMO (I once built an all-wood EDF Vulcan, albeit without retracts), I wouldn't expect any weight issues. So, please go ahead and start the CAD work. Since this a delta-planform, there is ample room to place (and shift) batteries inside the fuselage (or even inside this humonguos fuselage pod) to achieve the proper CG.
Using low-Amp fans (Wemotech, Jetfans etc.) you can go with 100-120 A HV ESCs and low-C rated batteries (capacity yet TBD).

[Elbee]

Hey guys. No, I have not yet done any calculations. I have to admit, I have 30+ years experience in building and flying GAS prop planes but I am only 2 years into the world of EDF's. I am relying on you guys to help me get the numbers right. I do want the plane as large as I can get away with and not go larger than a 90mm fan. I am planning to build the fuse in 2 sections and the of course the wings will be removable.

Since I work as an a AutoCAD draftsman, I am planning to redraw this entire plane in CAD for accuracy and to afford me the ability to modify and manipulate things as I need to. Based on re scaling the print scale to match the fan size, I am at fuse length of 9' +/- right now.

Guys, I have no clue about calculating things. I know this is a bass-ackwards way of doing it but I had planned to start off by sizing the plane size around the fan size. However, I am not real sure that will prove to be the best way of doing it. I want the plane to be of exact scale and I will be using all balsa, no foam.

I'm doing this plane like this because:

• 1. I LOVE this aircraft.
• 2. I want something that no one else has modeled in this size.
• 3. I had rather scratch build from balsa than foam.
• 4. I might even (provided everything works out) market the plans and possibly a short kit once it has been a proven design.

CV, As a 30 years modeling guy, airfoils that have worked in say pattern or sport flying, seems to me will work here. Reynolds Numbers are subjective and at smaller scale I believe have less relevance. Whatever happened to the standby NACA 2412? You know what I saying here, there should be some easy delta wing airfoil. Easy to get caught up in the minutia.. What Beeg wrote also works though the nacelles are so prominent on this airframe. All balsa, eh yeah, but light ply templates, foam sandwiched in between, you know that drill. Looking forward to this build and also how 3DP might be applied. Best, LB

[CVA59]

I don't see any reason why an EDF model of the B-58 based on a plan retaining the scale outlines incl. nacelle sizes shouldn't result in a nice and impressive model with a "healthy" thrust-to-weight ratio. The biggest challenge is the landing gear (that's why I never considered building one from scratch), but I understand that you have the skills and access to machinery to get it done. Building the Hustler all-wood is the best option IMO (I once built an all-wood EDF Vulcan, albeit without retracts), I wouldn't expect any weight issues. So, please go ahead and start the CAD work. Since this a delta-planform, there is ample room to place (and shift) batteries inside the fuselage (or even inside this humonguos fuselage pod) to achieve the proper CG.
Using low-Amp fans (Wemotech, Jetfans etc.) you can go with 100-120 A HV ESCs and low-C rated batteries (capacity yet TBD).

AWESOME!! I appreciate the help. I am beginning the CAD plans now so it may take a while but I will stay on it. I agree the LG will be a challenge but I love a good challenge for sure. I am going to also be looking for all the data I can find as well on everything about the B-58. I will keep you guys in the loop as it progress along. For now, I need to get it all drawn up, then we can revisit the scaling and hopefully nail it down.

Thanks guys!

[CVA59]

CV, As a 30 years modeling guy, airfoils that have worked in say pattern or sport flying, seems to me will work here. Reynolds Numbers are subjective and at smaller scale I believe have less relevance. Whatever happened to the standby NACA 2412? You know what I saying here, there should be some easy delta wing airfoil. Easy to get caught up in the minutia.. What Beeg wrote also works though the nacelles are so prominent on this airframe. All balsa, eh yeah, but light ply templates, foam sandwiched in between, you know that drill. Looking forward to this build and also how 3DP might be applied. Best, LB

Yes indeed. All very good points. What are your thoughts on going with the scale airfoil for modeling? Can you recommend what you feel would be a good airfoil for this project?

[Elbee]

, I am not an aerodynamics doctor and have not played one on TV but I will look in some of my really old books and get back with you. In the mean time, my guess is others with much more experience will chime in here. Best, LB

[CVA59]

, I am not an aerodynamics doctor and have not played one on TV but I will look in some of my really old books and get back with you. In the mean time, my guess is others with much more experience will chime in here. Best, LB

LOL, thanks Elbee

[Elbee]

CV, You might check this webpage: http://b-58.com/ Pretty Cool Stuff. Also, best I can find so far, is the airfoil is basically a flat-bottom tailless delta. I have looked through a couple Model Airfoil Books I have, but have yet to find much on Delta Wing Airfoils. I will continue to research. Best, LB