Official Freewing 90mm Ares 3D EDF Jet Thread

[Alphonso]

Bitterness? None here. (Yeah, I know, I'm used to that Brit humor, having worked 1/2 my life with many visiting scientists from your side of the "pond".) I "could" have gotten one via AliExpress by now but some of those sellers use dubious selling and shipping methods. Since I have 50+ RC models to fly at any given time, I'm not in a hurry either. In fact, I'm in the process of updating and upgrading my old SebArt MiG-29 3D jet. You could also get one from a seller on AliEx and I could always hit the buy button on MotionRC, but due to the tariff that MRC has paid on their stuff imported into the US from China, it's cheaper for us to buy from sources like RC Castle, who will have it around the end of this month. Winter, I hope, is at least 2 months away, so there is a chance I can still fly a new plane before the snow flies. If I can do the "catch and release" method for the Ares, I'll fly it all winter long (which is usually reserved for float planes and other VTOLs).

No I meant bitterness on my part due to the wait.

[xviper]

No I meant bitterness on my part due to the wait.

Haha! I've lost my edge in figuring out how you folks express yourselves.

[Alphonso]

Yep, self deprecating humour. Allows one to kick off whilst pointing the finger at ones self. I've always thought our peoples get on well, distant cousins if you will with many shared values. Just keep religion and politics out and we're good.

[Gradjanin]

Please, why need 2 separated flaps chanel?

[xviper]

Please, why need 2 separated flaps chanel?

If you want full span ailerons, the flap servos need to be separated. Flaps usually work in unison (and are generally Y'd together) while ailerons work in opposition (1 goes up, the other goes down) and are also Y'd together on most planes. The manual for this plane gives you Y's so you can dispense with fullspan ailerons. As already mentioned by 2BrosRC, fullspan ailerons will allow for insane roll rates, something that many people will never use, let alone be able to see and control. Also, allowing for fullspan flaps or "spoilers" doesn't seem to make that much difference on this plane (as per 2BrosRC) - you'll need to keep the ailerons on separate channels, too.
Using those Y's, can free up 2 channels. You can also Y together other things such as RUD to RUD vector and ELE to ELE vector to free up 2 more channels BUT that would necessitate being able to shut down of change gains at the tail depending on what the flying situation is. This could be very dangerous on a plane like this and complicated to do because of the 2 stock gyros.

[Evan D]

When people ask questions like this (and many have asked similar questions on RCG), my first thought is that person should rethink buying this plane.

[Gradjanin]

Thx Viper.

Evan, ask because we all always can learn something new. I'm not pro flyer but know lots stuff and have lots models. I glad for you to understand how work first PNP two gyro trust vector model and you can teach all of us (RCG included) about that 😉

I ask BEFORE buy to see it is possible interesting for me or not. Have 12+2s-b ch futaba Rx's but this is 13 chanel setup (manual) so ask, if have Y flaps it is ok or not.

[Evan D]

My preference, using a 12ch receiver, was to Y the ailerons as I wanted full span ailerons. Some have decided to not have reverse thrust as their way of using 12ch instead of 13.

[xviper]

Needless to say, a thrust vectored jet is a whole other kind of beast. My very first one was very scary in the maiden. Crashed it many times. I've since had several VT jets and all of them were and still are steep learning curves. I'm somewhat weary of sport jets and contrary to what some may say about "hovering" getting old real fast, hovering will never get old for me. Hovering VTOLs is one of my favorite things to do. VT jets allow for very entertaining "tricks" that I'll never tire of and will strive to get better at. Hovering jets is on a different and higher level. If you decide to get the Ares, start off just flying it as a normal sport jet, then introduce yourself to the VT characteristics gradually and carefully. It's not a cheap plane and wouldn't take much to bring it home in a garbage bag.
Watch as many YouTube videos on the Ares as you can find and pay particular attention to the ones that crash. You can learn a lot from those.
Although 13 channels is optimal and recommended, mine won't need that many. Waiting for RC Castle to get their stock. I love Motion but they've been tariffed and I get charged a big piece of money to ship it to me.

[Alphonso]

Or. . . . . . Use the supplied Y cable to link the flap and aileron of each wing and then pass each Y into the gyros. This will give full span stabilised ailerons and allow a 10 channel setup if not using reverse thrust. I have done exactly this, it has completely removed the wing rock at extreme high angle of attack.
To do this, you need the Bluebridge programmer to raise the gain of the ailerons for hover mode and to reverse the reverse servo.
if you still want flaps, you can have full span flaps. I have not felt the need.

[xviper]

My preference, using a 12ch receiver, was to Y the ailerons as I wanted full span ailerons. Some have decided to not have reverse thrust as their way of using 12ch instead of 13.

I won't require reverse either. What do you think about the guy on RCG who Y'd each flap to each aileron to get fullspan ailerons? He says it reduces the wing rock during high alpha. This would also free up some channels. I only intend to use a 10-ch RX.

[xviper]

Or. . . . . . Use the supplied Y cable to link the flap and aileron of each wing and then pass each Y into the gyros. This will give full span stabilised ailerons and allow a 10 channel setup if not using reverse thrust. I have done exactly this, it has completely removed the wing rock at extreme high angle of attack.
To do this, you need the Bluebridge programmer to raise the gain of the ailerons for hover mode and to reverse the reverse servo.
if you still want flaps, you can have full span flaps. I have not felt the need.

Ah, yes. That was you. What about Y'ing each side together as well? I won't need fullspan flaps or spoilers. 2Bros said those aren't that noticeable anyway.

[Alphonso]

Absolutely, add another Y and plug into one aileron slot on one gyro will remove another channel. However, seeing as 2 aileron slots are available, one on each gyro, it meant less wiring clutter to not add another Y.
I have not set up full span flaps, it doesn't need flaps to land. I'm heavier than stock with a 12S and it floats in gently with a clean wing.
My reason for trying a fully gyro stabilised wing was to alleviate the discussed wing rocking in harrier flight. After a days flying like this, it is successful. But you do have to fly harrier in hover mode with raised aileron gain from default setting. The default gain on the wing is very low, even with transmitter gain at max. I assume they did this so the plane will not shake if you exit hover without switching back to normal flight mode.
My setup requires that I flick flight modes as I pull out of hover but my gain allows such large correction of the 4 wing surfaces that it stops the wing rock , even though the wing is not acting as a wing at this point.
Others have suggested Cortex, or any gyro that allows independently switching to heading hold for aileron only. I wanted to try achieving no rocking with the stock plane ( or at least stock gyros as fitted).
2 other things may be helping but are unproven, I'm obviously a 100g or more heavier than 8S with 12S 4500mah, and my Schubeler (Jetfan too) is a much higher revving, shallower pitch fan than the FW 8S muscle fan, likely less torque reaction. Only my perception and may have no consequence but I must mention it as it's a non stock item. 7 mins of boisterous fun though as max amps are 100A for well over 5kg of installed thrust.

[tclaridge]

Does anyone know the name of the thread on RCGroups? I could not find it. Also, is there a need to switch the two gyro channels (gyro sensitivity and gyro mode switch) in flight, or is the stock programming sufficient? If these two gyro channels are not needed in flight, the 13 channels drops to 11.

[Evan D]

I use the modes and variable gain (though it’s mixed to my modes) and would not leave them as default.

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?4769725-All-new-Freewing-Ares-3D-90mm-%28w-TV%21%29

[Alphonso]

Does anyone know the name of the thread on RCGroups? I could not find it. Also, is there a need to switch the two gyro channels (gyro sensitivity and gyro mode switch) in flight, or is the stock programming sufficient? If these two gyro channels are not needed in flight, the 13 channels drops to 11.

No need to switch modes at all. Why would you want to turn a gyro off? And the 3rd mode is auto level not the usual Heading hold, so, nice to have if you want the safety but no help for flying.
If you want to hover and have a normal flight mode then TX adjustable gain is needed and like Evan, tied to their own flight modes.

[Evan D]

Good point. While I have a mode set up with no gyro and no TV I never use it.

[xviper]

However, seeing as 2 aileron slots are available, one on each gyro

This is something I'm curious about and don't fully understand. 1 aileron goes into 1 gyro and the other aileron goes into the second gyro. Each gyro utilizes different gains. The one going to the vector gyro is subject to very high gains (for hovering and high alpha work) while the other one gets lower gains (for normal flying). How can the right and left side ailerons operate under different gyro gains? Or am I interpreting this wrong?

[Alphonso]

This is something I'm curious about and don't fully understand. 1 aileron goes into 1 gyro and the other aileron goes into the second gyro. Each gyro utilizes different gains. The one going to the vector gyro is subject to very high gains (for hovering and high alpha work) while the other one gets lower gains (for normal flying). How can the right and left side ailerons operate under different gyro gains? Or am I interpreting this wrong?

When you hook up a bluebridge it will be more clear. The 2 gyros are identical despite the Vector sticker on one.
the gain for each axis can adjusted individually and then adjusted up and down from that point via TX gain switch, knob or slider.
So for example,
vector gyro is set up as follows by FW
TV yaw 250
TV pitch 250
Aileron 2 , 60 ( can't remember exact figure)

Other Gyro
Rudder 60
Elevator 60
Aileron 1, 60

So you see, only the TV channels are set high, mode and gain adjust wires are Y'd together.

[Evan D]

Think of it as one gyro just separated into two cases. One single gyro didn't have enough outputs so they linked the two units into one and the programming takes care of sorting it all out. If you try to think of it your way it'll drive you crazy.