I purchased a 1700mm mustang earlier this summer. Anyway got home and got it built about three weeks ago. First day out a retract failed. Ok, ordered a new one. Got installed and bench tested. Got out to the field today and the other retract is dead. Anyone else having this problem? I keep running it through my head but I can not figure how a sequencer would cause this. No binding. I have hooked up MrRc sound system but I cant see how that would cause a problem. I replaced the wing connectors. I test them with a receiver and a flight pack, six volts on the bench. Cant see how that's causing any problems. I am going to rob my red tail, even though its an older version I think it should direct drop in strut and all. Kind of leary to keep throwing money at new retracts if there is a problem I am missing. Anyone have any ideas? FMS put out a bad batch of retracts?
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RE: 1700mm Mustang retracts
Hello Ben,
The usual culprit on FMS etract failures is the integral circuit card with the two micro SMT travel stop switches. I have searched the net for replacement circuits for both the 1400 and 1700 etracts but to no avail. The motors them selves seem to keep working long after the circuit quits so I found that by circumventing that faulty circuit card(remove from etract) and using an external retract controller board I can get the unit back into operation. The external control board is about $20 and will control both etracts on the plane. For me it has been a more cost effective solution than what I used to do which is what you are presently doing which is dropping $30 for a complete new etract. I have found two different types at separate sources. Here's some links -
http://www.dragonhobbyusa.com/parts/wheel-tire/landing-gear-retract-control-board.html
http://www.troybuiltmodels.com/items/ESMLGBOARD-V3.html
PS - might even want to seriously consider upgrading to the all metal version for robust long term mechanical performance regarding side plate failures.
Best regards and good luck on the repair/upgrade,Warbird Charlie
HSD Skyraider FlightLine OV-10 FMS 1400: P-40B, P-51, F4U, F6F, T-28, P-40E, Pitts, 1700 F4U & F7F, FOX glider Freewing A-6, T-33, P-51 Dynam ME-262, Waco TF Giant P-47; ESM F7F-3 LX PBJ-1 EFL CZ T-28, C-150, 1500 P-51 & FW-190 -
RE: 1700mm Mustang retracts
I also ran into the same problem with my 1700 Red Tail bird. Bought it last year and finally got around to the build and upon bench testing both were doa, brand new and doa. Since it was out of warrant I am installing thw retracts from a Super Viper which are all metal and have had good success with. I dont know why but lately have been burning through FMS retacts way too fast from no obvious reason. Now upon failure am replacing with other mfg. retracts.Originally posted by Ben
ChrisComment
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RE: 1700mm Mustang retracts
Now that makes sense. For now I seem to have both working using my tried and trusted one out of my redtail. I actually pissed away some money on the robart electric twist and turns which turned out to be junk. Long story but feel free to check out the story on those retracts, anyway I have the controller that came with them. There kind of bulky but I could probably cut a pocket in the fuse for them to fit somewhere. Maybe some time when I get caught up I will try that. Thanks again. I would have never investigated it that much. With one plane almost built and a 30cc waiting to get built plus fly ins coming up..woosh tired thinking about it. Anyway thanks! Off to my work shed nowOriginally posted by OV10Comment
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RE: 1700mm Mustang retracts
Hi, recently purchased 1700mm p51 and since its my first bird with retracts I'm not sure about digital switch settings in my new DX7. Love the 1400mm FMS pitts and the p51 itself seems pretty nice but I'm a concerned about all the negative flak on the retracts. Can anyone help me with value settings. Should the switch be setup as 0/+100, or +100/-100, or +100/0, etc. Also I am contemplateing eliminating the sequencer and the gear doors with their servos as I am not that interested in "scale" as much as dependable performance and ease of assembly, etc.. I thought I could just bypass the extra wireing and plug the retracts in directly with the y harness. Any help on the subject is greatly appreciated. ThanksComment
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RE: 1700mm Mustang retracts
I would leave the "scale" set up as is. Its not going to make a difference dependability wise. If you just bought it, it should have came with the "wing connectors" so you wont have extra wires to plug in anyway. As far as your settings go with your DX 7 you really shouldn't have any settings to mess with as far as gear in your dx 7. I guess on servo setup make sure its at 100 up and down on travel. The sequencer will handle all of that for you. Yes, you could do away with doors and sequencer and plug straight into gear on your receiver with a three way, not a Y. Or I guess cycle your tail gear down then unplug it. I think that's a bad idea though in my opinion. The negative flack is maybe legit. Both stock gear failed on my new plane. With only one landing. I purchased it back in June but didn't get home to get it put together until August. On the bench they both worked fine. In the field one was dead on day one. I replaced it. The next time I went out the other one died. I replaced it with one off my red tail. It wasn't a structural fail it was electronic I guess. Anyway I have owned the red tail mustang, Frankie Mustand and two of the 1700mm P-47's and until now I never had a gear problem. I think I just got lucky with a bad batch of retracts so to speak. Since replacing the bad gear that came with the plane after today I have around half a dozen flights with no problems. That's using a new actuator and a old one off a one year old red tail mustang.Originally posted by Bipe LoverComment
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RE: 1700mm Mustang retracts
Thanks for the info Ben. To clarify my situation a little let me explain that I fly my Carbon z cub and 1400mm Pitts with eflite safe recievers. I have also installed that same reciever in the Mustang. Besides having to physicaly reverse the aileron servos for the safe system to work properly, nothing else has to be done. The nice thing is if you get a little out of wack while flying you can hit the panic button and the plane returns to level flight on its own. This has allowed me to advance much quicker as I have just started flying fixed wing this past May. This leads me to my special "gear" setup. I have only one extra channel and I have the flaps and retracts with a y connector on one switch. The trade off is that I have to settle for one flap setting so I pick a midrange setting and use it for take off and landing. The flap program in the DX7 allows me to use the slow down for the deployment of the flaps even thought the gear is on the same channel. I used your info to help me get started and after much experimentation I have been able to setup a two position switch which sets the flaps slowly and when the flaps are finished deploying the gear comes down. When you flip the switch up the flaps go up slowly and when finished the gear comes up. I have cycled this setup at least fifty times during setup and it seems to be reliable. I will be maidening this weekend hopefully all goes well. P.S. I did remove the doors and sequencer as they would not act properly with this setup. Maybe when I get more experience I will take off the training wheels and put in a regular 7ch AS3X receiver and go back to the normal setup. Thanks AgainComment
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RE: 1700mm Mustang retracts
I have a 1700 mm gear set (main) that I have no use for. They are not the standard ones as I had them made for me. They are just gathering dust in the box on the floor. You may have them if you wish. I cannot charge you because this is a forum and not a sales and swap forum. If you want them, you will have to pay the shipping charge and nothing else.Comment
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RE: 1700mm Mustang retracts
Here is a pic!Attached FilesComment
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RE: 1700mm Mustang retracts
Phoenix,Originally posted by Pheonix
Looks good, I can use them , my email chrstinn@aol.com
ChrisComment
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RE: 1700mm Mustang retracts
Roger. I will email you for you address.Originally posted by CT
[hr]
I just sent you an email for mailing address.Comment
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RE: 1700mm Mustang retracts
Good choice “Ben”. I bought a P51 Mustang in large scale from HobbyKing and had so many problem with the landing gear I ended up returning the plane. I kept browsing the internet and then I found this one http://www.nitrotek.co.uk/rc-planes/war-birds/p51-mustang-large-scale-rc-planes-silver-with-retracts-arf.html , at fair price of £219.99 only. The attention to detail in the canopy and the WWII USAF decals is excellent. This model even has retractable undercarriage, and flashing LED lights to add to the realism. I am really happy I got this one especially for the price.Comment
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RE: 1700mm Mustang retracts
Hi guys
I'm new to this forum but noticed this thread, and aligned with OV10's posts here he is right on the money!
I had no end of trouble with my stock retracts so I bought 3 pairs of the all metal FMS upgrade retracts, only to end up with the same totally unreliable retracts. Then a fly buddy of mine mentioned he was also having issues with his 1700mm F4U, amongst more and more other international owners.
Collaborative effort on the rcg P51 1700mm thread, we came up with the same solution as OV10- completely remove the micro switch controller board and use a retract controller. The cheapest I have found are under $10, I've tested and still use the LX 2000mm P40 & JP controllers, my P51, Blister's F4U, and another mate of mine's P51 are all using either the LX or JP controllers, with 100% success rate.
Seriously, it's worth doing the mod!
I put together a bit of a guide of sorts, feel free to have a peek, regardless of which controller you decide to use, you'll wish you did this mod prior to maiden :)
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2062729#post26999436
Hope this helpsComment
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Hello Aussie,
Appreciate the acknowledgement of my retract controller contribution from last August as well as posting that info on you referenced RCG thread in your update postings of thread#1.
Just want to add another viable link for that LX controller that you mention so that guys in the US have another option versus using AliExpress. I just grabbed a couple from Banana Hobby.
Best Regards,Warbird Charlie
HSD Skyraider FlightLine OV-10 FMS 1400: P-40B, P-51, F4U, F6F, T-28, P-40E, Pitts, 1700 F4U & F7F, FOX glider Freewing A-6, T-33, P-51 Dynam ME-262, Waco TF Giant P-47; ESM F7F-3 LX PBJ-1 EFL CZ T-28, C-150, 1500 P-51 & FW-190Comment
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Charlie,
Those micro switches have been the bane of my landing gear issues for years! I was shocked to learn that they were even there. To have a mechanical contact like that just seems to be asking for problems. I would have thought that a hall effect sensor would have been much more durable a solution!
I have to ask how do these controllers work? I assume it is just a current sensor for when the retract hits the end of their travel. If so how are the motor brushes holding up in the stalled over current condition? Can't be any worse than the crushed micro switches as the locking bar smashes it to them!
All the best,
KonradComment
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Hello Konrad,
Totally agree on the hall effect being a more durable solution but am guessing that the current limiter was less expensive in design.
The motors are doing very well actually because in all cases that I have experienced the controller shuts it down with even a minor binding of gear movement.
As I haven't taken a measure of the actual stall currents, from experienced observation of the micro switch circuits it seemed to me that they allowed the motor to feel more of a current strain than what these external controllers do.
When I installed the Small Parts CNC side plates on both FMS 003 and 004 etracts, sometimes a little aggressive tightening would cause some undue friction of the trunnion pivot pin and/or the lock bar in the slide groove of the plate. This would cause me some frustration with the gear not going fully up or down but was easily fixed once I understood the cause. Between the side plates and trunnion being metal now and coupled with the external controller, the longevity of my etract life has gone up and my repair costs have gone down. And we all know why FMS and the others don't make a setup like what is being done by us modders and that from my perspective is because parts mean money. Sell an etract for $30 versus a $5 circuit card or in my case none at all after the initial mod expenses. All my 1400 and larger warbirds which have retracts all have my modified version of the FMS 003, 004 on the 1400 size and the 001, 005 on the 1600 or larger size birds.
Yep, if you wanna fly warbirds you have to deal with the added maintenance and expense of retracts and so I live that joy!!
Best regards,
Warbird Charlie
HSD Skyraider FlightLine OV-10 FMS 1400: P-40B, P-51, F4U, F6F, T-28, P-40E, Pitts, 1700 F4U & F7F, FOX glider Freewing A-6, T-33, P-51 Dynam ME-262, Waco TF Giant P-47; ESM F7F-3 LX PBJ-1 EFL CZ T-28, C-150, 1500 P-51 & FW-190Comment
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What does Fms and motion Rc have to say about this ? $459 for a plane and you have to buy additional parts to make it work properlyComment
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I'm sure you guys have seen this, but I'm wondering they might be more reliable as the plastic sides on the stock ones were a major hassle on my 1400mms.
Grossman56
Team Gross!Comment
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Hello Gman,
Those are the 001's that I referenced in my post#16. They have the metal side plates BUT......the damn circuit card is still the weak link. The responses in this thread are to help Ben(OP of this thread) understand the issue is primarily pointed at that weak link because we modders have worked around FMS's weak design that has gone ignored by them because it is an aftermarket money thing not to fix it. That aftermarket comment probably should suffice to answer weedsnager's question also.
AussieHoppy started a thread over 3 years ago(referenced in his post#13 above) on RCG about this weakness of FMS etracts which is about how long I have been working to resolve the lack of performance longevity myself. As it stands as of now, the external controller card is the fix to FMS's etract failures(and metal side plates on 1400) and they really need to listen to what is being said by the user community and make a simple design change to incorporate a separate controller like the one being used by LX. Look at the NEW P-40B and the latest threads where there is a rash of etract failures and it is that circuit card and there are lot of unhappy pilots. I kind of feel a little exonerated now when I took some flak last fall for saying that the P-40B was overpriced and really was no better in features than the Freewing P-51 which is $80 less expensive AND now the price comparison has been ratified in favor of that over priced observation with FlightLines release of the P-38 which is $10 less than the Warhawk. So the money I saved by not getting the Warhawk is going to a much better value and the FlightLine OD green P-38 will be mine on round 2 of deliveries to MRC. I like FMS stuff and use their parts a lot but the etracts really need a fix.......off the FMS soap box now.
Best regards,Warbird Charlie
HSD Skyraider FlightLine OV-10 FMS 1400: P-40B, P-51, F4U, F6F, T-28, P-40E, Pitts, 1700 F4U & F7F, FOX glider Freewing A-6, T-33, P-51 Dynam ME-262, Waco TF Giant P-47; ESM F7F-3 LX PBJ-1 EFL CZ T-28, C-150, 1500 P-51 & FW-190Comment
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I bought the 1700mm Ferocious Frankie when it first came out. The first set of retracts failed on maiden and Motion ended up replacing 6 sets of mains and one tail gear. You can imagine what the wings looked like on my new $450.000 plane after 5 months of failures on takeoffs and landings and self replaced parts. I found out through this nightmare that my problem was the metal case around the gear mechanism was too flimsy so the output gear got sloppy and wouldn't engage the retract mechanism. I reported the problem to Motion and they finally got out a functional retract though they never admitted the gears were faulty. After a lot of squawking about my beat up Mustang, Motion finally sent me a new set of wings.Of course the wing replacement was for a 1700mm Corsair. I told them I would accept that anyway if they would send the rest of the Corsair. They promptly swapped out the wings.I have purchased three different large foammies from Motion and only one of them was ready to fly without rebuilding. They have the worst customer care of anyone I've ever dealt with in 55 years of modeling and I believe they are corrupting the other vendors who have to compete with them. My P38 arrived with an inoperable aileron servo. I requested they send me a new outboard wing segment or take my old one back and repair it instead of me digging it out of the wing. They informed me that their policy was they only had to replace the $8 servo and it was up to me to rebuild the wing myself. After the fiasco with the P51 I wasn't about to rebuild another one of their planes. I was very happy to learn that Horizon picked up the FMS line and I hope they pick up Flightline too. I love my P38 and I am still flying the Mustang as well.Comment
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