Official Black Horse Westland Lysander 2540mm ARF Discussion Thread

[OV10]

I see the suggested Admiral motor is out of stock. Anybody identified a substitute? Be nice if Leopard made the right size... I admit, I get a little confused with how different companies use different ways of describing large motor sizes. Dad just had his delivered today and he is very impressed with what he sees!

Motion has this Tomcat G160 6330-250kV which should be satisfactory alternative to the recommended Admiral 6330-245kV. ;)
MRC Tom had strong accolades for these Tomcats when I was on the market for 2 big motors for my ESM Tigercat so I ended up getting these G160's.
They come with high grade Japanese bearings and run very smooth and strong and $30 less expensive:).

[jukeman]

Just opened mine. Pretty impressive, but I'm wondering if anyone has tried something other than those hard wheels.

[dutchwhite001]

So, I had to stick my nose in on this one! I got mine last week, and there on the front box sticker it says you can run a 1.60 electric motor. Since I just so happen to have a Electrifly Rimfire 1.60 and an ESC rated for this, I do believe I will install same and see what happens. I also have the smaller one of these that Phoenix put out and am flying that on a Rimfire .80. The Phoenix one flies super nice and lands better than anything else I have, so looking forward to getting this behemoth into the air. Nice to see that Alpha is still "playing with toys" as we all should. I am suitably impressed with this kit. I have seen some of the older BH models and heard plenty of complaints about their quality, but I think with time comes knowledge, and this one looks like some real thought went into it. As far as the wheels go, I think I might try a set of Dubro treaded ones. Aros, go fly one and let us know what you think? Back to farming mud, since we grow it down here!
Dutchman

[dutchwhite001]

Oh, no the lights don't work, but you have plenty of room to install whatever you want.
Dutchman

[Terminater007]

Modify the wheel fairings and put lights on those..

[Alpha]

Just opened mine. Pretty impressive, but I'm wondering if anyone has tried something other than those hard wheels.

Welcome home to Hobby Squawk, Jukeman! Black Horse makes their own wheels but they do generally conform to what I'd consider "industry standard" sizes in terms of axle diameter and wheel width/height. I didn't try it myself on this Lysander but I'd imagine that a suitably sized Dubro would fit just fine. One thing I would be hesitant about is the load carrying capabilities and whether the wheels would deform over time if the model is stored on its feet. The advantage of the harder stock wheel is it's less prone to such deformation, yet they're soft enough where during actual landings I didn't detect a tendency to over-rebound or to bottom out.

As I often do, I'd recommend flying the stock equipment first, then adjusting to aftermarket parts if/when your conditions/preferences deem necessary.


dutchwhite001, I assume someone will post a tutorial showing how they drilled out the stock wingtip "light" covers and installed functioning LEDs. Perhaps it will be you? I too noticed that the Lysander is better designed overall compared to some of the original models from a decade or more ago. The Lysander's control hardware, wing connection, and overall plan make more sense to me on how a model like this should be executed. Black Horse's engineers know what they're doing. We sit and talk for hours about aerodynamic principles over pho tai noodles and fresh coconuts.

[MrSmoothie]

Motion has this Tomcat G160 6330-250kV which should be satisfactory alternative to the recommended Admiral 6330-245kV.

Thanks for that recommendation OV10! Looks like a good deal, and Dad ordered one or the last two in stock.

[MrSmoothie]

Lipo Questions

I'm helping Dad out with his Lysander and I was just thinking about the power. He's using the Tomcat motor suggested by OV10. He'll be using two 4s Lipos in series.
I am correct that this setup will require EC5 plugs in all three places (both lipos and the ESC), and no Deans/EC5 adapters (which would still present the "weak link")?

Dad has been busy and the assembly is coming along very nicely. The kit was missing the motor plate that goes between the heavy aluminum standoffs and the smaller plastic standoffs that go to the motor X-mount, shown on page 30 of the manual. I assume that was ply -- can anybody confirm this, and also the thickness? I made a replacement from 3/16" birch aircraft ply, and that's all assembled.

I've also started 3D printing the pilot and gunner using Max Grueter's great "Spitfire Pilot" file (cgtrader.com). I recently used his "Me-109 Pilot" file to 3D print the full pilot for my 1600mm FW-190. Max does great work. The provided pilot figure is, I'm afraid, truly awful! I doubt I'll get any argument there.

[OV10]

Lipo Questions

I'm helping Dad out with his Lysander and I was just thinking about the power. He's using the Tomcat motor suggested by OV10. He'll be using two 4s Lipos in series.
I am correct that this setup will require EC5 plugs in all three places (both lipos and the ESC), and no Deans/EC5 adapters (which would still present the "weak link")?

Dad has been busy and the assembly is coming along very nicely. The kit was missing the motor plate that goes between the heavy aluminum standoffs and the smaller plastic standoffs that go to the motor X-mount, shown on page 30 of the manual. I assume that was ply -- can anybody confirm this, and also the thickness? I made a replacement from 3/16" birch aircraft ply, and that's all assembled.

I've also started 3D printing the pilot and gunner using Max Grueter's great "Spitfire Pilot" file (cgtrader.com). I recently used his "Me-109 Pilot" file to 3D print the full pilot for my 1600mm FW-190. Max does great work. The provided pilot figure is, I'm afraid, truly awful! I doubt I'll get any argument there.

That's a solid plan ;)

[Jason126]

Just opened mine. Pretty impressive, but I'm wondering if anyone has tried something other than those hard wheels.

I got some Du-Bro air filled tires for mine! I agree the stock tires are crap. Still building mine but they fit into the fairings just fine. Not sure how they will react under load, might balloon out and contact the fairings. Hopefully not with a proper inflation pressure. But i’m really impressed with Du-Bro’s tires!! I also replaced the tail wheel with a Du-Bro treaded tire that is much softer. Should provide better traction.

[Jason126]

Trying to decide how difficult it would be to modify the squadron markings to be those of 161 Squadron, a red MA. I won’t go as far as redoing the whole paint scheme but i really like this plane for its history as a SOE agent ferry and want to replicate that.

Also having a hard time finding a spinner that would look halfway decent. For now i’m considering the Top Flite Giant P-47 prop nut. Not sure if I can make it work with my motor though.

[Alpha]

Trying to decide how difficult it would be to modify the squadron markings to be those of 161 Squadron, a red MA. I won’t go as far as redoing the whole paint scheme but i really like this plane for its history as a SOE agent ferry and want to replicate that.

Also having a hard time finding a spinner that would look halfway decent. For now i’m considering the Top Flite Giant P-47 prop nut. Not sure if I can make it work with my motor though.

Hi Jason, welcome home to Hobby Squawk!

161 Squadron's Lysanders, if I recall correctly, were either completely black or were lower half black ("black belly"). If you're wanting to replicate the latter without recovering the entire model, I think it's relatively easy. If it were mine I would mask the colored areas you want to preserve using painters tape with a rolled putty border. This assumes you want a slightly feathered edge and are using spray paint. If you have an airbrush, I would probably just shoot the black by hand.

To increase adhesion, I would use a matte primer in acrylic enamel. Oil based enamels or even lacquers may bite into the covering for more durability, but test first just in case they're too aggressive and melt the original silkscreened ink off of the stock covering.

After you have a black painted area, the next step may be to restore some of the panel lines that are printed on the stock covering. Because the stock lines are black, and now you have a black painted area, I would probably experiment with using a 0.5mm brown or black ink pen. The ink would be a different sheen than your painted black area, which should catch the light convincingly without being too contrasted. Alternatively, I might use a 1mm mechanical pencil to recreate some of the lines. The point in either method isn't to make the panel lines starkly visible. Rather, subtlety is more realistic. Of course the other option is to not recreate the panel lines at all.

Whichever you choose, please post your final results!

[Jason126]

Whichever you choose, please post your final results!

Thanks! Yes i would like to so something similar to the one at the Udvar Hazey Air & Space Museum. I had not considered painting right over the covering, good idea. My first thought was to request some custom art from Callie’s Graphics. I probably still will talk to them about it.

As far as spinners go, I have access to Solidworks so I am considering modeling up one and getting it 3D printed. The spinner is unique in that it does not fully encompass the props.

[Jason126]

Also, planning to use a Turnigy Aerodrive 6374-149 with a Castle Edge 60HV ESC, two 6S 5000 mAh batteries in series and a Master Airscrew Classic Series 18x12 2-blade. I arrived at this configuration using e-Calc. Seems to be a good solution. 1:1 thrust to wt ratio, 32 amp draw and around 15 minute flight time!

[axerhand1976]

hey alpha you said you flew one on a 35cc, with that engine how much more dead weight was used to get c/g if you can remember. thanks

[jukeman]

As my son, Mr. Smoothie said, we're in the middle of this project. It's an impressive looking plane and lends itself to the feeling of doing some modeling, as opposed to throwing together a foamie in an hour or two. Two things I notice are different than previous photos showing tailwheel and linkage for ailerons (see attachments). The tailwheel is pretty impressive. As my son said, the pilot had to go, but so did the very glossy, gray cockpit and glassy looking instrument panel. With that out, made some changes to back of removable cockpit and repainted all of the green interior with the Fed Standard 34226 (pea green) available at Home Depot. Pilot, gunner and instrument panel are a work in progress. Gunner will have his very own Lewis machine gun. Only a piece of plywood and a couple of crimp tubes missing. When passing the rudder thru the tube it exited better than an inch below the horn. Had to do some surgery and make a patch. I know this to have happened to someone from Motion who is also building one. Wings and tail came with control surfaces attached by two hinges in each part. When separating them, the hinges fell out easily. Don't know why those holes were drilled so large. Kit is extraordinarily well packaged.

[Alpha]

hey alpha you said you flew one on a 35cc, with that engine how much more dead weight was used to get c/g if you can remember. thanks

Hi Axerhand, I can't remember exactly. I'm digging through galleries on my old computer to find my notes. Got a new laptop last month. I'll post if I find it and in the meantime I'll ask the factory to take the cowl off and confirm for us.

[Alpha]

As my son, Mr. Smoothie said, we're in the middle of this project. It's an impressive looking plane and lends itself to the feeling of doing some modeling, as opposed to throwing together a foamie in an hour or two. Two things I notice are different than previous photos showing tailwheel and linkage for ailerons (see attachments). The tailwheel is pretty impressive. As my son said, the pilot had to go, but so did the very glossy, gray cockpit and glassy looking instrument panel. With that out, made some changes to back of removable cockpit and repainted all of the green interior with the Fed Standard 34226 (pea green) available at Home Depot. Pilot, gunner and instrument panel are a work in progress. Gunner will have his very own Lewis machine gun. Only a piece of plywood and a couple of crimp tubes missing. When passing the rudder thru the tube it exited better than an inch below the horn. Had to do some surgery and make a patch. I know this to have happened to someone from Motion who is also building one. Wings and tail came with control surfaces attached by two hinges in each part. When separating them, the hinges fell out easily. Don't know why those holes were drilled so large. Kit is extraordinarily well packaged.

Jukeman, thanks for your report of the highlight and hurdles so far on your build. Your pilot looks amazing for a "work in progress". Where did you buy it, or are you developing it yourself? :Cool:

[axerhand1976]

thx alpha.

[MrSmoothie]

Your pilot looks amazing for a "work in progress". Where did you buy it, or are you developing it yourself?

It's been fun helping Dad with his big project, no doubt the most complicated plane he's done since getting back into the hobby. I started with Max Gruder's excellent "Spitfire Pilot" file from cgtrader.com which was $39 -- a real bargain, as I can rescale and use over and over. This is mostly 1/6 scale, although I printed the body at about 90% of the 1/6 scale settings -- fits better and looks fine. After all, humans come in all sizes. I printed them completely hollow (no in-fill at all) and plan to try injecting them with polyurethane expanding foam to give them some resistance to deformation in the heat (not that our planes our out in the sun for a minute when they're not being flown).

Also working on an instrument panel for Dad based on a decent photo of a Lysander panel undergoing restoration. I did some photoshop work on it and then corrected for distortion and scaling before printing out and laminating to styrene sheet. The bottom is angled slightly and the the center portion is raised. Turned out pretty well I thought.

Last, redid his radial engine with an older Top Flight vacuformed styrene radial -- not incredible, but certainly better than what comes with the Lysander. I did some research and the real engine was rather boring -- originally overall semigloss black. Only one pushrod per cylinder unlike most US radials.