Problem with Aero Scout SAFE/AS3X mode

[LetsGoFly]

Sorry to comment so late in the game, but I think there is something missing from this discussion that may help others in the future... The AeroScout S2 BNF comes with a different configuration than I've seen on any other airplane with AS3X/SAFE (and I've flown at least 25+ different models with Spektrum's AS3X/SAFE technology). When setup with SAFE Select enabled as described in the manual, it is preprogrammed with the 3 flight modes mentioned earlier in this thread (Beginner, Intermediate and Expert) but they are NOT what I expected when I got mine. Beginner mode is (as expected) the "typical SAFE mode from Spektrum which auto-levels the airplane on a continuous basis. Intermediate mode relaxes the bank and pitch angles a bit, but still does NOT allow the plane to be inverted or looped. It really is like a "half-SAFE" mode. And while Beginner mode has AS3X without SAFE (as expected), it doesn't stop there like previous models that I've flown. It includes some reduced throws and a preprogrammed mix (I think it was Aileron to rudder?) which makes it feel quite restricted IMO. In spite of having a decent amount of experience with these AS3X/SAFE receivers, I was baffled when I bound and bench tested my AeroScout. I rebound it multiple times to ensure I wasn't making any mistakes, and I almost returned it, thinking it was defective. After doing some additional research and finding this was "normal" for this model, I flashed the firmware to unlock it, reset it to clear all preprogrammed settings, and then I configured the 3 flight modes to be "typical" SAFE, "typical" AS3X, and AS3X/SAFE off (no gyro at all). I hope this info helps anyone else who gets this model and has trouble figuring out why the Advanced mode doesn't really feel all that advanced.

[YankMachain]

Hello all,
New guy here with a problem concerning the Aero Scout.

The problem is the Scout will not come completely out of SAFE/AS3X, which ever the case. The plane has only been flown a few times because of this. The reason? It can be landed. It just wants to climb. The only way to get it back is to power it down. When I try turning off the SAFE mode, there's a slight improvement in the control surface movement, but for sure not enough for a roll a flip, or to bring it down.. Now I'm pretty sure that there's something not set correctly because there was one flight where everything was working properly. Since then the plane seems "stuck" in SAFE mode. I have tried re-binding...once removing the bind plug before binding the controller, and once with the bind plug installed. Nothing changed. I've checked the function of all switches. Here is what I feel is strange. When I use a servo tester to check the travel of the servos, the servos only travel half of the allowed travel. When the plane is powered up, and is self checking, the servos travel 100%.
I'm new to all of this, and to say that I'm really confused is an understatement. As I said, there's some change when SAFE/AS3X is turned off, but the system still remains in a guarded state.

Thanks in advance for any ideas, or information.

Did you ever find a solution? I have the same exact problem.

[xviper]

Indeed, they are. Lemon and Admiral aren't the only Spektrum (DSM2/X/P) compatible receivers. HobbyKing sells a line of "Orange" RXs, too that work well with Spektrum TXs. And many of these products can be had with telemetry. Perhaps one day, you'll get into planes (eg. sailplanes) that you might like to have "return home" to you if you lose sight of them. There's a whole world of really neat gadgets out there waiting for you.

[rmachin]

THanks again - a lot for a beginner to learn these days beyond flying the plane. I'll definitely look into those options when I move up to a new plane and radio setup - seems those LEmon recevers provide a lot more bang for the buck, and appear to be fully compatible with the Spektrum radios and the telemetry options, which do like.

[xviper]

That is not necessarily true. Lemon and Admiral sell a series of stabilized receivers, all of which are much cheaper than any Spektrum product and work just as well. Additionally, you can buy some very inexpensive "standard" Lemon and Admiral receivers and add a HobbyEagle gyro that has the stabilizer (AS3X) and "auto-level" / "recovery mode" (SAFE).
Also, insofar as "a lot of re-programming" is concerned, this is not always true either. For example, in a Spektrum product, all you need to do is to program your gains as "variable" and then you can change the gains on the fly via a rotary knob on the TX. Same goes for Lemon and HobbyEagle products. "Master gain" via channel 8 (rotary knob) can be altered on the fly for different wind conditions and different styles of planes.

[rmachin]

Seems like if you think you'll ever need to use any sort of stabilization, the spektrum receivers with built-in AS3X are teh most cost-effective way to go at least for beginners eh. Spektrum have discontinued their $100 gyro add-on. I know moving radios to ne models requires a fair bit of reprogramming, but small price to pay I think in every sense.

[xviper]

That is correct. In Spektrum, SAFE is associated with AS3X. As I said, AS3X is generally talking about a 3-axis gyro, while SAFE is a 6-axis gyro. There needs to be some kind of gyro (accelerometer) in order to have "stability". Some gyros can have a stabilizer (3-axis) but no "recovery mode" (or 6-axis gyro, SAFE in Spektrum).

[rmachin]

All very interesting. I thought AS3X or some sort of gyro stability would be on all the receivers, but apparently not then - if you buy the std telemetry receiver without SAFE, you get no AS3X either. I think I'd like at least AS3X if not SAFE in case I Want to use the receiver in a more squirrely plane in future. I did build a plane many years ago in FM times, thought I'd learned to fly it, and one day - lost it. So I'm thinking some of these technologies might be useful for that bad day that may be a little more windy or I may be a little more distracted than is ideal.

[xviper]

I'm not bashing RealFlight as it's a good place for many people to get started with learning "muscle memory" and leaving "dumb thumbs" behind to a certain extent. However, the "issue" I see with flight sims compared to a real plane is that there are so many things that a new pilot must do when dealing with a real model plane that the flight sim does for you in the background that you can't even conceive of. In this sense, I don't find RealFlight to be that "real". When starting with a "real" model, there are things like the set up and knowing how to build the model and properly aligning all the control surfaces. The Sim does this for you. Then comes the initial flight and doing the trimming and knowing how, when and how much trimming to do. The Sim does a lot of that for you.
Insofar as SAFE being a "bit less of it", I'm not so sure you can think of it that way. SAFE is SAFE, either you have it or you don't. The only thing that changes with SAFE is the degree of roll banking allowed and the degree of pitch allowed. You still CANNOT do a loop or a full roll when SAFE is engaged. No matter what the degree of bank/pitch limit is set to, when you let go of the sticks, the plane will still fly straight and level. "Beginner" is SAFE with less angle limits, AS3X engaged. "Intermediate" is still SAFE but with more angle limits, AS3X engaged. "Experienced" is with SAFE turned OFF but it still has AS3X stability. "Panic mode" is the pushing and holding the BIND button, releasing the sticks to get the plane to right itself and fly straight. If the Sim is anything like the real model, in Beginner and Intermediate modes, if you let go of the sticks, the plane will right itself and fly straight without pushing the button. Only in Experienced mode does you need the panic button if you get "out of sorts". Letting go of the sticks will only have the plane go in the last attitude flown. IE, if the plane is going DOWN and upside down, it will continue to descend upside down until you push the button.
Since this thread is over a year old and the original AeroScout is now discontinued, I have to go back and read about it to be sure of what I'm saying. There is a new AeroScout that can be Pre-ordered now and I didn't read about what has changed.
If you buy an AeroScout, you can only buy a BNF or RTF. You will not have a choice of whether or not you get a RX with SAFE. It comes with it. Many of Eflite's "beginner" planes come that way. Only when you get out of the "beginner" planes, can you buy one that is PNP when you can choose your own receiver. If you buy a SAFE receiver, you will have to learn how to program it. It's always better and easier for a "beginner" to get a plane that already has it IF that's what you'd like to end up with for those "first" planes. No matter which way you decide to go, just know that the Sim does not show you everything you need to know and do when you get a real model. You will also discover very quickly that the "real" model doesn't feel like what the Sim model felt like.

[rmachin]

I see an issue for those of us who start with realflight. I am flying teh Aeroscout, and the SAFE operation is beginner, intermediate, and AS3X only, on my dummy controller's 3-way switch. Works perfectly. So from teh above it sounds like this is a bit of a hybrid combination? The intermediate is a bit like the original poster says, it's SAFE but a bit less of it! I'm debating now when I get a new RX for teh real world, whether I will pay the $50 extra for SAFE - thinking it may always be useful for maiden flights in particular, and difficult planes that may cause landing panic.

[xviper]

You are so right. I got carried away and my mind went blank. Days later I thought of things I should of done, I kind of miss that plane. Is it true you must trim the plane every time you fly or just once?

You usually do the most trimming of a plane on its maiden flight. However, some planes go out of trim after being stored for a few days or a few weeks and if you don't use the exactly same weight of battery in the exact same place, then you need to trim it again. Trimming is something that you check for every flight as early in the flight as you can manage it. A lot of things can change the trim. Each time you fly a plane, as soon as you have it up and flying straight into the wind, you check for its "hands off" stability. Then trim as needed.
Real aircraft need to be trimmed every flight and even several times during a flight as the weight balance can change due to different loads and as the fuel gets used up. It's not a static thing.
If I were starting out again, I'd go for the Aero Scout. Many of my friends started with the Apprentice, so that's always a good option as well. I prefer the Scout because it has gigantic wheels, trike gear and it has a wide performance envelope, one that you can grow with. The apprentice is a trainer to begin with and generally stays that way forever. The Scout can become a more aerobatic and performance plane as the pilot gets good at it.

[fnp1964]

You are so right. I got carried away and my mind went blank. Days later I thought of things I should of done, I kind of miss that plane. Is it true you must trim the plane every time you fly or just once?

[xviper]

I think it has to do with the way it's set up. For "newbies", this can be a confusing and daunting task. The plane needs to be set up properly with all the control surfaces aligned and the RX needs to know what "level" is and allowed time to initialize level. There's one at my field and the first day, it almost ended up a disaster but he managed to get back down safely and with some suggestions as to what might needed to be done, he took it home and messed with it. The next time he brought it out, it flew perfectly as it should and he was absolutely delighted with it. He flew the heck out of it for weeks on end before he graduated up to more challenging planes. (Reading the manual and following the instructions is quite important when it comes to these AS3X and Safe Select equipped planes.)
There is also a cure for a plane going "up and up and going far away" .............................. Don't let it keep going up and far away. Shut the throttle down and fly it the best you can. It'll come down.

[fnp1964]

I bought a Aero Scout as my first plane. I took it out to the air field and noticed it climbed up. It climbed so high I barely saw it. I finally cut the power and called it a loss. I thought that plane sucked for newbies. I got an apprentice and it flies great .

[Klegg]

You need to read page 5 of the BNF Aeroscout manual with regards to the DX6. It doesn't quite work the way you said.

I should have clarified which Tx(s) I use. Mine came with a Tx (dxe). Safe/intermediate/ and advanced all map to toggle B. I also have an NX8, and set safe to the same toggle.

I am using the preset aeroscout model in my NX. I belive it is the same file as used for the DX...it has the DC extension on it.

I have noticed a slight wing drop to the left on mine.

[xviper]

Aeroscout BNF has 3 settings....safe, intermediate and AS3X.

It should map to a 3 way toggle, BUT you may have to assign the switch. Are you using the spektrum Aeroscout preset? Or did you make you own model?

You need to read page 5 of the BNF Aeroscout manual with regards to the DX6. It doesn't quite work the way you said.

[Klegg]

Aeroscout BNF has 3 settings....safe, intermediate and AS3X.

It should map to a 3 way toggle, BUT you may have to assign the switch. Are you using the spektrum Aeroscout preset? Or did you make you own model?

[SanExup]

Everything that xviper said.

When doing the switch assign process, holding the sticks down and inward, you must wait for the initial process to complete. Beeping, surfaces moving, then hold the sticks and quickly move switch b. Sometimes you have to do it multiple times for it to work. Meaning unplug and replug, initialization, and then sticks and switch. Let us know if it works!

The Dx6 is not a bad transmitter.

[xviper]

This is a BNF model. The transmitter is a DX-6. Far from the best, but not exactly the worst transmitter.

OK, this is the first time that you told us that your plane is a BNF and you are using a DX6. This makes a difference. Did you do all the stuff for the TX setup as per page 5 of the manual regarding the Channel Assign? This makes your switch B (3-position) your flight mode switch (beginner, intermediate, experienced). Switch I becomes your "panic mode". Beginner should be SAFE. Intermediate should be AS3X. Experienced should be no gyro help (ie, no SAFE, no AS3X). There's also a section dealing with AS3X trouble shooting later in the manual.

[AHS]

This is a BNF model. The transmitter is a DX-6. Far from the best, but not exactly the worst transmitter.