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IR wavelength/frequency from different Tank Board manufactuers

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  • LegoDEI
    replied
    For those of you curious to learn more about what the differences are, the folks at OpenPanzer have already done all the hard legwork. In short, IR signals are just some sequence of blinking on and off for some period, you can think of it as morse code. To reduce interference and noise from outside light sources, whenever the LED is on it's actually flashing at 38kHz, which is what the sensor looks for: https://learn.adafruit.com/infrared-...frared-signals

    In terms of what each company's codes are, OpenPanzer has documented this here: https://github.com/OpenPanzerProject...b/OP_IRLib.cpp
    For example, Tamiya boards will send a signal that on the LED translates to 3ms On, 3ms Off, 6ms On, 8ms Off, (20ms total) and repeats this 50 times for a total of 1 second for the entire signal.
    Taigen on the other hand turns on for 0.6ms, off 0.6ms, and repeats 10 times.
    Keep in mind during all these (3ms ON) periods, it's not a solid light, but rather blinking rapidly at 38kHz for 3ms, (114 times in 3ms).
    The controller board is basically constantly reading the Receiver and looking for these patterns, once something is a sufficiently close match, it then accepts it as a hit.

    In terms of IR hit receivers, the one found in my shop will take hits from system that uses 38kHz signals, which allows for a wide compatibility. https://www.etsy.com/shop/LegoDEI

    Leave a comment:


  • Rudinater
    replied
    Thanks for the information. I have been asking these questions for a couple of years now at events and on line and I have NEVER gotten any answers. Thats why I build my own IR hit receiver. Thanks again.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rubicon99
    replied
    Originally posted by Rudinater View Post

    At this point I would bet money that the different is the IR emitter LED and the IR receiver. I don't have a Taigen system. I would like to wire in a HL/Tamiya Apple to a Taigen board and see if it would take a HL/Tamiya hit.
    It’s been tried many times and has never worked without adding a MAKO conversation board between the IR emitter & receiver onTaigen or old HL MFUs. The MAKO board converts the incoming IR information to a format that can be read by the Taigen or HL MFU and also converts the outgoing IR information to that which can be read by a Tamiya MFU (or Tamiya protocol system).

    All IR receivers will work with any “like” battle system if the power, ground and signal (P/G/S) lines are arranged to match the different systems. Tamiya IR receivers do not use the Taigen/HL wire layout, but will work with these systems with proper wire arrangements. Even though it works it does so at a reduced level of performance as these system do not supply the higher voltage the Tamiya IR receivers require. When LegoDEI worked up the new 6.0 HL IR receivers he used his Tamiya compatible ones as a base and simply rewire the P/G/S lead to match the HL arrangement. Fortunately the LegoDEI receiver operate fully at the lower voltage supplied by the HL 6.0 system.

    Even though the IR receivers can be made to work with different systems they are in no way equal in performance. The Taigen and HL IR receivers are junk and can only read an IR beam hit “reliably” from ~30 feet away. Less in bright noontime sunlight.

    Tamiya and LegoDEI receiver are excellent and can reliably read an IR beam hit from 75 feet away in almost any lighting condition. They also both have four hit indication LEDs that the Taigen and HL receivers lack.

    I wish it was as simple as the IR emitter and receiver but mine and many others testing show this is just not the case.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rudinater
    replied
    Originally posted by Beeg View Post
    I was going to ask about the Apple "IR sensor" itself is the beginning of the incompatibility or if the sensor by itself was generic and the "code" was read and processed only at the MFU.
    Have you experimented to see if your unit will work with a Taigen system?
    At this point I would bet money that the different is the IR emitter LED and the IR receiver. I don't have a Taigen system. I would like to wire in a HL/Tamiya Apple to a Taigen board and see if it would take a HL/Tamiya hit.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rubicon99
    replied
    Originally posted by Rudinater View Post
    I have to question the IR code thing. I have been working on building a IR Hit received and have a working model. I have used the HL IR receiver and a tsop38238 IR receiver at 38KhZ. From what I can tell the IR Receiver is just a diode that detects a IR signal on the correct freq and that provides the output signal. They are just a simple device. Pin 1 VC, Pin 2 ground and Pin 3 signal. Hit the diode with a IR signal, and pin 3 voltage increases. I have pin 3 wired to a IC555 chip which is nothing more then a timer chip that controls how long my the output is on. That output feeds a couple of transistors in a flip flop set up to drive some LEDs so they flash. So even if a "Code" was being sent from the tank, the receiver is just a on/off switch type receiver. The IR receiver diodes come in different freq. 30Khz, 33 Khz, 36khz, 38khz, 40khz and 56khz. So i was thinking that perhaps the difference between a tamyia/HL 6.0 board and some other brand is they are using a different freq IR chip set.
    The use of the word “Code” in reference to the Tamiya IR beam “protocols” is to simplify the information and make it easier for people with little to no background in electronics to understand.

    The Tamiya “code” is the IR “pulse sequence” Tamiya uses in their control systems to recognize and register a hit. The HL 6.0 now uses this same pulse sequence were it did not prior in the older 5.2/5.3 systems. In short it is a program in one of the MFU chips.

    Leave a comment:


  • Beeg
    replied
    I was going to ask about the Apple "IR sensor" itself is the beginning of the incompatibility or if the sensor by itself was generic and the "code" was read and processed only at the MFU.
    Have you experimented to see if your unit will work with a Taigen system?

    Leave a comment:


  • Rudinater
    replied
    I have to question the IR code thing. I have been working on building a IR Hit received and have a working model. I have used the HL IR receiver and a tsop38238 IR receiver at 38KhZ. From what I can tell the IR Receiver is just a diode that detects a IR signal on the correct freq and that provides the output signal. They are just a simple device. Pin 1 VC, Pin 2 ground and Pin 3 signal. Hit the diode with a IR signal, and pin 3 voltage increases. I have pin 3 wired to a IC555 chip which is nothing more then a timer chip that controls how long my the output is on. That output feeds a couple of transistors in a flip flop set up to drive some LEDs so they flash. So even if a "Code" was being sent from the tank, the receiver is just a on/off switch type receiver. The IR receiver diodes come in different freq. 30Khz, 33 Khz, 36khz, 38khz, 40khz and 56khz. So i was thinking that perhaps the difference between a tamyia/HL 6.0 board and some other brand is they are using a different freq IR chip set.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rubicon99
    replied
    Originally posted by Beeg View Post
    Hummm, makes you wonder if Taigen/Torro is going to follow Heng Long and join the club rather than stand alone.

    This leads me to another question, other than the most prominent manufacturers are there also other boards and systems for 1/16 scale Tanks? Or are they so rare they're not worth worrying about? Does Mato use their own board?
    I would not say these lower production MFUs are not worth talking about, some folks love them. But there is a reason next to Tamiya that Clark and IBU are seen more often.

    Mato uses off the shelf systems. Almost all the Mato tanks I have seen in person are using the higher end Clark’s. But then these might have been added by their owners and not Mato.

    All the aftermarket systems like Clark and IBU need to be programmed to get the most out of them. Clark are the “easiest” for most folks to program and I suspect this way they are seen so often as replacement MFUs.

    Leave a comment:


  • Beeg
    replied
    Hummm, makes you wonder if Taigen/Torro is going to follow Heng Long and join the club rather than stand alone.

    This leads me to another question, other than the most prominent manufacturers are there also other boards and systems for 1/16 scale Tanks? Or are they so rare they're not worth worrying about? Does Mato use their own board?

    Leave a comment:


  • Rubicon99
    replied
    Originally posted by Beeg View Post
    I read recently that the frequency either emitted or received could be different from the various MFU, DMD, MFCB boards (Tamiya,HengLong,Clark,Taigen, IBU, etc.) from various manufacturers? I had assumed that IR was IR and regardless of the board manufacturer they could all "see" or receive hits from any of the other manufacturers. Is this not the case?
    It is not the case.

    There are those that are Tamiya compatible meaning they use the Tamiya IR codes which are the leading codes used in IR club battles worldwide. 6.0/1 HL, Clark, IBU and a few others use the Tamiya IR codes.

    “Stock” Taigen/Torro and “stock” older 5.2/3 HL systems do not use the Tamiya IR codes and thus cannot battle with any of the other systems. Nor can the “stock” Taigen / Torro battle with the older “stock” 5.2/3 HL systems. These can only battle with others of the same brand or those using their MFU control boards.

    One reason so many people choose to replace their otherwise decent Taigen / Torro MFU boards with aftermarket ones that are Tamiya IR compatible is to have the interoperability in IR battling.

    Leave a comment:


  • Beeg
    started a topic IR wavelength/frequency from different Tank Board manufactuers

    IR wavelength/frequency from different Tank Board manufactuers

    I read recently that the frequency either emitted or received could be different from the various MFU, DMD, MFCB boards (Tamiya,HengLong,Clark,Taigen, IBU, etc.) from various manufacturers? I had assumed that IR was IR and regardless of the board manufacturer they could all "see" or receive hits from any of the other manufacturers. Is this not the case?
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