1/16 550 motor gearbox

[keilau]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/325746678827

It is supposed to be for larger Heng Long tanks such as the Leopard 2A6, Challenger 2. tank_me has mod it with 540 motor to fit the Abrams. I would appreciate some hands on comparison with a 390 motor ball bearing gearbox such the Heng Xin or the HL Ultimate2 or the Torro series 2?

[Rubicon99]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/325746678827

It is supposed to be for larger Heng Long tanks such as the Leopard 2A6, Challenger 2. tank_me has mod it with 540 motor to fit the Abrams. I would appreciate some hands on comparison with a 390 motor ball bearing gearbox such the Heng Xin or the HL Ultimate2 or the Torro series 2?

It's a quality gearbox but with a low gear ratio which mean very slow. It's good for the super heavyweight 100% metal "Tigers" but to slow for modern tanks unless you like to always drive at nearly a crawling speed.

An alternative to this if you want to be in the 550/540 motor range is the DLKM "dual current" drive "PDSGB". HengLong makes a version of the "dual current" drive but it is not a well built as the DKLM version.

This is what it looks like. Shown here in one of my M60s. There is a video of it running in the M60 on my Instagram @ Fsttanks.

[keilau]

It's a quality gearbox but with a low gear ratio which mean very slow. It's good for the super heavyweight 100% metal "Tigers" but to slow for modern tanks unless you like to always drive at nearly a crawling speed.

An alternative to this if you want to be in the 550/540 motor range is the DLKM "dual current" drive "PDSGB". HengLong makes a version of the "dual current" drive but it is not a well built as the DKLM version.

Fully appreciate what you said about superheavy all metal chassis RC tank. The higher startup torque of the 550 motor will be put to good use. The 550 motor used in this gearbox is 18000 rpm which is the same as the Tamiya Standard 380 and much slower than 25000+ rpm of the 390 that I use with the Heng Xin or Torro gearbox. This 550 motor gearbox uses a gear ratio of 1:39, same as the HL Ultimate2, Torro or Heng Xin.

For 1:39 ratio gearbox, the scale speed (<30 mph) with 380 motor is perfect for WW2 tanks. The 390 motor is good for scale speed (<50 mph) of modern tanks post 1980.

Some manufacturer offered a higher gear ratio of 1:56 for lower scale speed with 390 motor on older tanks. Running the 380/390 series at lower rpm is undesirable since these small Mabuchi motors get better efficiency and torque at top rpm.

In summary, the 550 motor gearbox is necessary for superheavy all metal chassis RC tank. They are too slow for the Leopard 2A6.

p.s. Small brushless motor rpm is a direct function of the supply DC voltage. All the above discussion are based on typical 8 volts 2S Lithium Ion pack.

[Rubicon99]

Fully appreciate what you said about superheavy all metal chassis RC tank. The higher startup torque of the 550 motor will be put to good use. The 550 motor used in this gearbox is 18000 rpm which is the same as the Tamiya Standard 380 and much slower than 25000+ rpm of the 390 that I use with the Heng Xin or Torro gearbox. This 550 motor gearbox uses a gear ratio of 1:39, same as the HL Ultimate2, Torro or Heng Xin.

For 1:39 ratio gearbox, the scale speed (<30 mph) with 380 motor is perfect for WW2 tanks. The 390 motor is good for scale speed (<50 mph) of modern tanks post 1980.

Some manufacturer offered a higher gear ratio of 1:56 for lower scale speed with 390 motor on older tanks. Running the 380/390 series at lower rpm is undesirable since these small Mabuchi motors get better efficiency and torque at top rpm.

In summary, the 550 motor gearbox is necessary for superheavy all metal chassis RC tank. They are too slow for the Leopard 2A6.

p.s. Small brushless motor rpm is a direct function of the supply DC voltage. All the above discussion are based on typical 8 volts 2S Lithium Ion pack.

Yes the gearboxes shown in your first post are to slow for the long hull modern tank types like the Leopard 2, Abrams and Challenger 2 IF having the option to run them at scale top speeds is something one desires.

[keilau]

Yes the gearboxes shown in your first post are to slow for the long hull modern tank types like the Leopard 2, Abrams and Challenger 2 IF having the option to run them at scale top speeds is something one desires.

Tank is a slow moving vehicle in the real world. WW2 tank can't even run 10 mph on unpaved terrain. Modern tanks can run up to 50 mph on highway, but do not do that either. They have tank transporter if need to move fast. All my RC tanks except the Sherman have 390 motors because I like to see how fast they can dash in the lawn.

[Rubicon99]

Tank is a slow moving vehicle in the real world. WW2 tank can't even run 10 mph on unpaved terrain. Modern tanks can run up to 50 mph on highway, but do not do that either. They have tank transporter if need to move fast. All my RC tanks except the Sherman have 390 motors because I like to see how fast they can dash in the lawn.

Yep, just because they "can" drive fast doesn't mean we have to drive them fast or that we do that often. BUT sometimes it's just fun to let loose and rip around with them.

[keilau]

An alternative to this if you want to be in the 550/540 motor range is the DLKM "dual current" drive "PDSGB". HengLong makes a version of the "dual current" drive but it is not a well built as the DKLM version.

This is what it looks like. Shown here in one of my M60s. There is a video of it running in the M60 on my Instagram @ Fsttanks.

The TongDe Marine M60A1 is fairly light weight. But the gearbox arrangement allows only 380 motors for lack of lateral space. As received, the plastic version had a scale speed of 25mph. When I upgraded to the TD metal gearbox, I put in a matched pair of Tamiya Standard 380 with an 18000 noload rpm. (It dropped to 16500rpm under load.) The scale speed went up to 27mph, not bad for the M60. I notice that you installed the "fast" DKLM dual current drive. How fast does it run?

[Rubicon99]

The TongDe Marine M60A1 is fairly light weight. But the gearbox arrangement allows only 380 motors for lack of lateral space. As received, the plastic version had a scale speed of 25mph. When I upgraded to the TD metal gearbox, I put in a matched pair of Tamiya Standard 380 with an 18000 noload rpm. The scale speed went up to 27.2mph, not bad for the M60. I notice that you install the "fast" DKLM dual current drive. How fast does it run?

It's pretty fast if I open it up. On 7.2v running in "low power" mode through a HL 7.1 MFU it's around 30mph scale and around 45 in the "high power" mode. On 9.6v it's crazy fast somewhere in the 60+ range. I am not crazy enough to run it on a 11.1v Lipo it would be totally uncontrollable.

Running the DKLM gearbox for me is not about speed which can be fun, it's about the ability to use more durable, more correct width, high quality rubber padded "dual pin" tracks like the Tamiya Abrams/Leopard ones.

Even though the DKLM gearbox is the "FAST" version it is actually easier to drive at a crawl speed then with the metal TD or HL style of gearboxes using a HL 7.0/7.1 system. Turning performance of the M60 now is far smoother and more precise feeling. Oh and the DKLM gearbox is super quiet something they are known for.

Overall it is so far proving to be a good upgrade to the M60 with enough noticeable performance increases to be worth the "experimental" effort installing it because I already had the DKLM gearbox sitting around. It might not be as good of an upgrade for someone having to start from scratch and having to buy the gearbox, new sprockets and new tracks as they are all together kinda pricey.

[keilau]

It's pretty fast if I open it up. On 7.2v running in "low power" mode through a HL 7.1 MFU it's around 30mph scale and around 45 in the "high power" mode. On 9.6v it's crazy fast somewhere in the 60+ range. I am not crazy enough to run it on a 11.1v Lipo it would be totally uncontrollable.

Running the DKLM gearbox for me is not about speed which can be fun, it's about the ability to use more durable, more correct width, high quality rubber padded "dual pin" tracks like the Tamiya Abrams/Leopard ones.

Even though the DKLM gearbox is the "FAST" version it is actually easier to drive at a crawl speed then with the metal TD or HL style of gearboxes using a HL 7.0/7.1 system. Turning performance of the M60 now is far smoother and more precise feeling. Oh and the DKLM gearbox is super quiet something they are known for.

Overall it is so far proving to be a good upgrade to the M60 with enough noticeable performance increases to be worth the "experimental" effort installing it because I already had the DKLM gearbox sitting around. It might not be as good of an upgrade for someone having to start from scratch and having to buy the gearbox, new sprockets and new tracks as they are all together kinda pricey.

I have an extra pair of Tamiya Leopard 2A6 tracks and the HL sprocket and idler wheel for Challenger2. Any reason that I cannot use them on the TD M60 with TD gearbox?

It is winter time in Chicago. I have not run the upgraded M60 outdoor yet.

[Rubicon99]

I have an extra pair of Tamiya Leopard 2A6 tracks and the HL sprocket and idler wheel for Challenger2. Any reason that I cannot use them on the TD M60 with TD gearbox?

It is winter time in Chicago. I have not run the upgraded M60 outdoor yet.

The stock TD drive shafts are not long enough to properly align the sprockets and tracks with the hull return rollers and road wheels.

The DKLM gearbox has substantial longer drive shaft which just happened to be the correct overall length needed of around 63mm.

Here you can see just how much longer the DKLM drive shafts are. Disregard the ruler underneath it has no bearing, I did not remove it prior to taking the photo.

[keilau]

The stock TD drive shafts are not long enough to properly align the sprockets and tracks with the hull return rollers and road wheels.

The DKLM gearbox has substantial longer drive shaft which just happened to be the correct overall length needed of around 63mm.

Here you can see just how much longer the DKLM drive shafts are. Disregard the ruler underneath it has no bearing, I did not remove it prior to taking the photo.

I know that you have mentioned that the TD plastic tracks are more durable than the HL track which is known for stretching when aging. I have been looking for a good nylon or metal track for the M60,

The DKLM all metal dual current drive is too rich for my budget. I wonder if the plastic case drive will work too.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/32534508081...3ABFBMuP_78clj

[Rubicon99]

I know that you have mentioned that the TD plastic tracks are more durable than the HL track which is known for stretching when aging. I have been looking for a good nylon or metal track for the M60,

The DKLM all metal dual current drive is too rich for my budget. I wonder if the plastic case drive will work too.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/32534508081...3ABFBMuP_78clj

It should because it is a copy. How durable it is I can not say. For me this DKLM gearbox in an M60 is going to be a one off. Just too expensive to fit them in my others. Those I will keep the TD metal gearboxes and TD plastic tracks.

[keilau]

It should because it is a copy. How durable it is I can not say. For me this DKLM gearbox in an M60 is going to be a one off. Just too expensive to fit them in my others. Those I will keep the TD metal gearboxes and TD plastic tracks.

I have been interested in trying the dual current drive. The plastic version is cheap enough to allow that. The dual current drive has many different configurations. For the TD M60, is it H60MM or M60MM or L60MM? Are there any such designation in the DKLM drive manual? 60 is the motor shaft length.

[tank_me]

As far as I know, there is only a High or a Low motor mount version of the DKLM (Propulsion Dynamics) style gearbox so there would be no M version. There are many different length of shafts though. You can't just measure the TD drive shaft to see if it would fit because the PDSGB shafts mate with the gearbox in a different location than the stock gearboxes on a TD M60. The TD M60 gearboxes are pushed all the way to the sides of the tank while the PDSGB gearbox is not. Carson does not list a PDSGB for the TD M60, only for the OKMO M60. I have a couple here and may be able to get a rough measurement of the shaft length required for the TD M60, but I do know they don't come in 60mm...the come in 49, 59, and 65mm.

I use the 550 based gearboxes in my Abrams for the sheer torque of them, not for scale speed as they would be a little slow for that. As most have said though, tanks are not really run flat out on flat ground much anyway. The Abrams will tear it's tracks apart in real life if run too fast so the typical top speed is 45mph even though it can reach speeds above 60mph. Of course if I bumped the voltage on my tank from 7.2V to something higher, it would probably reach a scale 45mph or higher.

[keilau]

As far as I know, there is only a High or a Low motor mount version of the DKLM (Propulsion Dynamics) style gearbox so there would be no M version. There are many different length of shafts though. You can't just measure the TD drive shaft to see if it would fit because the PDSGB shafts mate with the gearbox in a different location than the stock gearboxes on a TD M60. The TD M60 gearboxes are pushed all the way to the sides of the tank while the PDSGB gearbox is not. Carson does not list a PDSGB for the TD M60, only for the OKMO M60. I have a couple here and may be able to get a rough measurement of the shaft length required for the TD M60, but I do know they don't come in 60mm...the come in 49, 59, and 65mm.

I use the 550 based gearboxes in my Abrams for the sheer torque of them, not for scale speed as they would be a little slow for that. As most have said though, tanks are not really run flat out on flat ground much anyway. The Abrams will tear it's tracks apart in real life if run too fast so the typical top speed is 45mph even though it can reach speeds above 60mph. Of course if I bumped the voltage on my tank from 7.2V to something higher, it would probably reach a scale 45mph or higher.

Thank you for the insight. I like everything about the TD M60 except the appearance of its track. When Rubicon99 mentioned that he uses a Tamiya track on the dual current drive M60, I am really interested.

The TD M60 is one of the best running tank in my small collection even with the 380 motors only. I know the real M60 speed is slightly higher than the scale speed with 380 motor. (27mph scale speed vs. real M60 33mph top speed.) I am fine with it.

[Rubicon99]

Thank you for the insight. I like everything about the TD M60 except the appearance of its track. When Rubicon99 mentioned that he uses a Tamiya track on the dual current drive M60, I am really interested.

The TD M60 is one of the best running tank in my small collection even with the 380 motors only. I know the real M60 speed is slightly higher than the scale speed with 380 motor. I am fine with it.

The shaft lengths needed to use the HL Abrams sprockets and tracks is the "65mm" one which is actually more like 63ish mm when I measured it. Any shorter and all the alignments will be off.

Below is the HL sprocket and Tamiya Leopard "test" track (Abrams now on the tank) and you can see they are "perfectly" flush with the outside edge of the fender. If you haven't taken a look yet I have a short video made up of several clips from the drive testing. It can be viewed on my Instagram @ Fsttanks.

[keilau]

18 months after this conversation, I finally made up my mind to get an all plastic dual current gearbox system with the intention of using it on the Tongde M60A1. The gearbox should be here in 1-2 weeks.

https://www.toucanhobby.com/products/hl-dgb-sl-p1-h55-dzn1?variant=47588069638394

Not sure how big the challenge is. But I get 2 of the most experienced tankers for consultation if I need it.

[Rubicon99]

Just a FYI. The gearbox' needs to have the "60mm" ish length axle for the HL Abrams sprockets to a-line correctly.

[keilau]

Just a FYI. The gearbox' needs to have the "60mm" ish length axle for the HL Abrams sprockets to a-line correctly.

Thank you for the reminder. I ordered the version for the HL Abrams which is the 1:39 H65mm. Hope that it can align properly. I will have to wait for the gearbox delivery to test it out.

https://www.toucanhobby.com/products/hl-dgb-sl-p1-h55-dzn1?variant=47588069638394

[keilau]

I have 3 items waiting for shipping from Toucan Hobby US warehouse for the Tongde M60A1. The upgrade are necessary after the problem with the TD metal tracks. A dual current gearbox, an Abrams track with rubber pads and a Tongde servo recoil unit. I still got the best price compared to other seller, but the shipping is as slow as from China.

It has been several days since the items that I ordered from Toucan Hobby US warehouse were marked as "fulfilled" and shown a tracking number for each item. When I clicked on the tracking number, the Toucan Hobby website show no information except a message telling me to be patient. Finally, I copied those tracking numbers and track them on 17TRACK.net. It show that all those shipment are originated from the "Toucan Hobby US warehouse" in China. It takes many days for the carrier to pick up the item and a few more days to ship to US. Shipping cost is not bad compared to other seller's shipped from China cost, but it is no faster. For example, it took 10 days from ordering to transferring to the port of origin for my earliest item. Yes, Toucan customer needs lots of patience.