Toucan is carrying TongDe tanks now.

[Nfafan]

IMHO, HL would do well with a decent T55. I’m leery of a Hooben T55.

[keilau]

You are free to do whatever you want, I was just cautioning you about the issues myself and other have had with the "kit". I haven't heard of any of the same issues with the ready to run versions. I, like you, thought I could save a little by buying the kit and it cost me a lot in frustration. Just an FYI.

The type of experience from people like you is what we need on this forum. I cannot imagine myself doing the type of mod, 3-D printing, whole chassis rebuild etc. like you. I enjoy very much reading what you do. While I am unlikely to buy a Haya Centurion, but any potential Haya buyer should hack your warning.

[tank_me]

You are free to do whatever you want, I was just cautioning you about the issues myself and other have had with the "kit". I haven't heard of any of the same issues with the ready to run versions. I, like you, thought I could save a little by buying the kit and it cost me a lot in frustration. Just an FYI.

[keilau]

Haya uses the same gearboxes as HL. I wouldn't recommend the kit though. If you buy a Haya Cent, buy the RTR or ARTR version. The kits have had issues with missing parts. How do I know? Mine was missing a bunch of parts, but yet included a bunch of extra duplicate parts. The instructions to put it together are VERY lacking. You are left to guess which screws go where for the most part. They came all in one bag with no breakdown of what is what. I own two Haya tanks including the Cent and like them, but don't buy the kit. Every person I know that bought the kit was missing parts when they got it and had to have Haya send them the missing parts.

The Haya kit or ARTR are both more than I want to spend on a RC tank.

https://www.hayaltd.co.uk/Haya_116_Centurion_Barrel_Recoil_BB_Shooting_Smoking_RTR/p191100_21956889.aspx

I may get a Tongde Centurion if I can figure out how to modify the TD gearbox to accept HL sprocket. (Yes, a glutton for punishment)

[tank_me]

Heng Long is still the king of low end 1/16 scale plastic chassis RC tank. After 5 low end HL, I was ready to move to the mid range TD M60 and HL Merkava. With torsion bar suspension, both runs more smoothly on rough terrain. (Don't laugh at me. the TD M60 and HL Merkava was twice the price each compared to the T34 and Sherman so they are the mid range to me.)

I visited the Haya Centurion page again. Their gearbox looks very similar to the cheaper version Heng Long steel gearbox. If true, the gearbox upgrade should be easy and has many options.
https://www.hayaltd.co.uk/details/p191100_22082445.aspx

Haya uses the same gearboxes as HL. I wouldn't recommend the kit though. If you buy a Haya Cent, buy the RTR or ARTR version. The kits have had issues with missing parts. How do I know? Mine was missing a bunch of parts, but yet included a bunch of extra duplicate parts. The instructions to put it together are VERY lacking. You are left to guess which screws go where for the most part. They came all in one bag with no breakdown of what is what. I own two Haya tanks including the Cent and like them, but don't buy the kit. Every person I know that bought the kit was missing parts when they got it and had to have Haya send them the missing parts.

[keilau]

Heng Long is still the king of low end 1/16 scale plastic chassis RC tank. After 5 low end HL, I was ready to move to the mid range TD M60 and HL Merkava. With torsion bar suspension, both runs more smoothly on rough terrain. (Don't laugh at me. the TD M60 and HL Merkava was twice the price each compared to the T34 and Sherman so they are the mid range to me.)

I visited the Haya Centurion page again. Their gearbox looks very similar to the cheaper version Heng Long steel gearbox. If true, the gearbox upgrade should be easy and has many options.

https://www.hayaltd.co.uk/details/p191100_22082445.aspx

[Rubicon99]

Yes, Heng Long made some major mistakes too. They left 2 of the most popular tanks of all time, US Army M60 Patton and UK Centurion, out of their lineup. And market many tanks of little appeal.

OH YES they did make a mistake. HL did actually look into the M60/M48 and Centurion. They even had "working" (?) prototypes built. This was around the same time they were working on the Merkava (which was ready for production) in late 2019 early 2020 and then COVID hit and everything stopped cold in China.

A couple of reason HL did not continue development afterwards was that they decided there was not enough interest or demand for those two tanks plus they were looking at going a different direction with growing their 1/10 all metal scale line and upgrades to existing tanks.

This gave time for Tamiya and Haya to release two very good Centurions and for TD to listen to consumers and design a M60. At this point HL would be to far behind the curve on a Centurion having to complete with three other offerings. As far as the M60/M48, insider information indicates HL still has no interest in producing one. But then who knows it's HL?

I would suspect if HL ever released an M60/M48 they would follow something along the route that TD has done to overcome the track to hull alinement challenges as it is the most cost effective option to achieve a reliable running M60.

[keilau]

Yes, Heng Long made some major mistakes too. They left 2 of the most popular tanks of all time, US Army M60 Patton and UK Centurion, out of their lineup. And market many tanks of little appeal.

[keilau]

I never intend to keep the HL track on the Challenger2 IF I get it. I have a pair of recently acquired Tamiya original track for Challenger2 in waiting. I am a big fan of the Tamiya nylon/metal hybrid track after using it on the HL Leo2A6. I also have the Heng Xin gearbox with 390 for the Challenger too.

In the 2 pictures below, the Tamiya sprocket is on the left and the Heng Long is on the right. They are identical in diameter, gear pitch and width, but very different in the motor drive mounting. The Tamiya sprocket is a single piece design and the HL sprocket has 4 pieces and middle teeth guide.

The next 2 pictures show how well the tamiya track fits the HL Challenger2 sprocket.

I believe that Tongde made a major marketing mistake by not keeping their RC tanks spare compatible with Tamiya and Heng Long. I probably would have had 3 TD tanks now (instead of just one M60A1) if they were spare compatible with the major 1:16 scale tank makers.

[keilau]

I never intend to keep the HL track on the Challenger2 IF I get it. I have a pair of recently acquired Tamiya original track for Challenger2 in waiting. I am a big fan of the Tamiya nylon/metal hybrid track after using it on the HL Leo2A6. Am I still a glutton for punishment?

Only You can admit to that.

Hobby is for fun and challenge. A boring hobby is worse than no hobby at all. I enjoy doing what I am good at.

[SoCalBobS]

I replaced my metal tracks for plastic on my Challenger with metal sprockets. The plastic tracks were 2mm narrower where the sprocket teeth engaged. More clearance, less pinching and therefore much more reliable. Quieter too.

[MrChef]

Am I still a glutton for punishment?

Only You can admit to that.

I suggest talking to Meter Rat. He's got LOTS of experience with his Chally issues. But like a true British sports car he swears he loves it. Well maybe he just swears about it a lot...🤣🤣🤣

[keilau]

You are a glutton for punishment aren't ya? The Challenger is another tank that is not great with track retention. It seems those are your favorite tanks...

I never intend to keep the HL track on the Challenger2 IF I get it. I have a pair of recently acquired Tamiya original track for Challenger2 in waiting. I am a big fan of the Tamiya nylon/metal hybrid track after using it on the HL Leo2A6. Am I still a glutton for punishment? I also have the Heng Xin gearbox with 390 for the Challenger too.

Yes, I like to explore new upgrades. I am glad that I have people like you to guide me to the right direction.

It is not a done deal for me. I am more attracted to the TD Centurion Mk5 than the HL Challenger2 in term of subject. But the Challenger2 has much more upgrade options that are higher quality. (Yes, I am limiting myself to the low end budget.)

On my 7 working tanks, I have 2 Tamiya tracks, 2 Mato metal tracks, one Torro metal track and one TD plastic track. I use a modified HL metal track on my very old Pershing and do not have de-track problem.

[tank_me]

I am considering buying a plastic version HL Challenger2.

You are a glutton for punishment aren't ya? The Challenger is another tank that is not great with track retention. It seems those are your favorite tanks...

[Rubicon99]

Tongde sales number is trailing far behind Heng Long product. The latest news of MotionRC messed up with the "upgraded version" using poorly designed brass bushings is not helping. Toucan Hobby is considering adding TD product to their US stock if TD sales number justifies that, but it is far from a done deal.

The saving in buying Toucan direct is the ebay fee which is about 10% of the tank cost.

One, TD is a very small RC tank manufacturer and in no way trying to compete with HLs numbers. That is why they are turning out tanks HL does not sell or that HL has any interest in selling.

It's NOT Motions fault with the brass bearings issue that happened with one TD Centurion so far. Chinese toy manufacturers are well known for substituting parts if they have run out of specific parts the customer ordered installed. Toucan has had this happen many times with Heng Long having substituted zinc gears for steel gears or using plastic bushings when the packing says SS bushings. The list can goes on and on.

[keilau]

Tongde sales number is trailing far behind Heng Long product. The latest news of MotionRC messed up with the "upgraded version" using poorly designed brass bushings is not helping. Toucan Hobby is considering adding TD product to their US stock if TD sales number justifies that, but it is far from a done deal.

The saving in buying Toucan direct is the ebay fee which is about 10% of the tank cost.

[MrChef]

Once Toucan has US stock of TongDe tanks their website will not be cheaper. Especially if you have any experience "making deals" with Toucan on eBay and just don't pay the listed asking price. Easy to get them to drop 10-20% on a US stock tanks you just have to haggle a little and call their bluff and walk away. Shortly there after they will most likely send you and offer at or very close to your price. The more you buy from them on eBay the more then tend to "meet" your price. This is not so with their direct non eBay sales.

What is good about their non eBay website is spare parts and the odds and ends one find themselves needed and which are not available EBay.

This is Exactly my experience.

But at least for me I had to get to know the hobby and market pricing as well as shop around and compare when adding shipping etc. As a first timer Motion RC is IMO the best bet. But I have gotten 2 very good deals on the last 2 tanks I've gotten from Toucan, 1 an Ebay auction and the other a sale on a U.S. warehouse stock tank they upgraded. It doesn't hurt me that they ship from their warehouse in Cranberry N.J. either. I'm in N.Y. and I usually get deliveries in 3 days or less. I have heard they also have a west coast warehouse but don't know more about that.

As per parts I also agree. The only challenge with this is the shipping and wait times since it's mostly coming from China. But I did grab some Plastic Tiger I tracks for $3.95 per set.

[Rubicon99]

The standard version TD Bradley at Toucan direct website is $253.90 USD, but the shipping is high.

https://www.toucanhobby.com/products/td-m2121-m2a2-bradley-320-po-y-dzn1?_pos=1&_psq=bradley&_ss=e&_v=1.0

The standard version TD Bradley at Toucan ebay store is $378.90+$45.90 shipping from China.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/326065894122?itmmeta=01HTJ2F0H2CP6JK3F24J74WTM5&ha sh=item4beb0ab2ea:g:5aoAAOSwy-5mAQep&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAAwON9TP4DUHu74YgtblGBk9 MxFJUGCFtgoFE8ufKDZRePzem6l2D3X7BB9Ys0wCrmn%2B38DV jtb9RJeqqk%2B44eTbfZEGVLHGkuJoS19Wj8p5cCwfcvc5kvBN kzif3F5pnZBsSxRQ4F8%2FI7k%2FsmjAW8%2FZ%2BN%2BzdHla sUXJgiAq4EhJsKIcnySwX2XvIZ4NbHhRGhYFVeqp5jph%2B0g1 5BoksQqbSGBSYWQMiGqHlRgF1X8RDREpsxFC7TTuAvSN3lgOy9 wA%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR9CIvMLUYw
I still believe the Toucan direct website is cheaper than their ebay store in total cost.

Both those prices are higher then Motion RC when shipping is added in given that Motion has free shipping. But I suspect the price will come down as it did with the Merkava and others. Toucan has always started new products high and then dropped prices especially on eBay.

Once Toucan has US stock of TongDe tanks their website will not be cheaper. Especially if you have any experience "making deals" with Toucan on eBay and just don't pay the listed asking price. Easy to get them to drop 10-20% on a US stock tanks you just have to haggle a little and call their bluff and walk away. Shortly there after they will most likely send you and offer at or very close to your price. The more you buy from them on eBay the more then tend to "meet" your price. This is not so with their direct non eBay sales.

What is good about their non eBay website is spare parts and the odds and ends one find themselves needing and which are not available EBay.

[keilau]

Good find, I might have to pick one of those up myself. Way back when I tried to buy a challenger from eBay. I checked the sellers details and it said he ships by USPS so I bought the tank. Then he went and shipped it by FedEx, which is a major hassle for me and they ended up having to send it back. There was no way I was going to drive over an hour just to pick up a tank, so back it went. But with a price like that, maybe it's time to try again.

Make sure you registrate before you order. The Toucan direct website still has many bugs. It works ok for me after some learning curve to find the product I want.

[keilau]

The standard version TD Bradley at Toucan direct website is $253.90 USD, but the shipping is high.

https://www.toucanhobby.com/products/td-m2121-m2a2-bradley-320-po-y-dzn1?_pos=1&_psq=bradley&_ss=e&_v=1.0

The standard version TD Bradley at Toucan ebay store is $378.90+$45.90 shipping from China.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/326065894122?itmmeta=01HTJ2F0H2CP6JK3F24J74WTM5&hash=item4beb0ab2ea:g:5aoAAOSwy-5mAQep&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAAwON9TP4DUHu74YgtblGBk9MxFJUGCFtgoFE8ufKDZRePzem6l2D3X7BB9Ys0wCrmn%2B38DVjtb9RJeqqk%2B44eTbfZEGVLHGkuJoS19Wj8p5cCwfcvc5kvBNkzif3F5pnZBsSxRQ4F8%2FI7k%2FsmjAW8%2FZ%2BN%2BzdHlasUXJgiAq4EhJsKIcnySwX2XvIZ4NbHhRGhYFVeqp5jph%2B0g15BoksQqbSGBSYWQMiGqHlRgF1X8RDREpsxFC7TTuAvSN3lgOy9wA%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR9CIvMLUYw

I still believe the Toucan direct website is cheaper than their ebay store in total cost.