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Which Flybarless controller for my 700 Apache?

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  • Which Flybarless controller for my 700 Apache?

    Hello guys. I am currently building the Roban 700 Apache. I purchased from motion RC and they recommended the Bavarian demon 3X. With the help of one of the sales reps via phone I have been able to basically program the fly barless system and I am able to fly but the tail is not solid at all. Years ago when I first started flying the good advice given to me was to use what others around you are using. That way you have help. No one around here that I know of flies this unit. Most fly Vbar or beastx.
    let me say that I have flown remote control helicopter‘s for the past 30 years and I am a decent 3-D pilot. But I know nothing about electronics. Well just enough to get by. The last fly barless unit I programmed myself was the align 3GX 😁.
    I’m not even sure if you have to have a specific Gyro capable of four blades or if any standard fly barless unit will work?
    I would love to hear what some of you guys are using and your experiences with them and recommendations. Thank you.

  • #2
    I use the Bavarian Demon Axon. in all three of my helis. One two blade, one 3 blade and one 5 blade. I really like the Demon, once set up the helis fly with a nice locked in feeling.

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    • #3
      Thanks Herman. I am hoping to get this one set up well. I know it’s a good unit. I am getting together soon with a rep who fly’s these to help me. Can I ask this...what headspeed do you run at? I would really like to run as slow as possible while not sacrificing tail authority.

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      • #4
        I use the microbeast plus. I use them in all me helicopters from 450’s, 500’s, 600’s and my 700 Apache. They setup really easy. I also use the Bluetooth adapter with the app on my phone.

        Gravy

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        • #5
          Also contact Michael Brown on FB. He makes a great cascading scale tail.
          Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

          im is wing a 510kv motor and believe my head speed around 1350 rpm.

          Gravy

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          • #6
            Hello Gravy. Thanks for that info. Good to know about the beastx. I have a friend who flys those and is very good at setting them up. And I have been in communication with Michael for a long time now. I have one of his tails 😁. Really great guy.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Aces View Post
              Thanks Herman. I am hoping to get this one set up well. I know it’s a good unit. I am getting together soon with a rep who fly’s these to help me. Can I ask this...what headspeed do you run at? I would really like to run as slow as possible while not sacrificing tail authority.
              The 5 blade I run at 1250 rpm, the 3 blade at 1300 rpm, the 2 blade is a pod and boom 600 that runs at 1000 rpm. Sounds like you got a great person to help with setting your's up.

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              • #8
                Thanks Herman. Getting together with this guy Sunday weather permitting.

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                • #9
                  I have used the Beastx as well... in 500, 600, 700 sized helis. Something to consider as well regardless of the FBL will be the headspeed... b/c 4 blade setups usually want to have even lower headspeeds, seems like alot of guys try to hit the 1100-1200 rpm range with them, is you might consider the low rpm tail upgrade kit from roban...

                  Recently (thanks to PawPaw's suggestion) I actually started using the governor mode in the Beastx... and it has been pretty much spot on for the headspeed. It has stayed within +/- 10rpm of what I have set it for.

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                  • #10
                    Hello sfcfury. I was not aware of this low rpm upgrade kit. I was wondering if there was a way to regear. Where do I search for that? Does motion RC carry it?
                    Also, I am using a castle creations 160hv esc and right now I am using set endpoints because that is what one of the reps from motion RC suggested. I want to utilize governor mode but i need to figure out the “gear ratio” to enter in. As you know this heli utilizes 4 gears. I’m not sure how to figure out my gear ratio. If you or someone can help me with that then I can program my esc.
                    But I am very interested in this regear kit. Want a low head speed for a more scale flight but can’t sacrifice tail authority. Thanks.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Aces View Post
                      Hello sfcfury. I was not aware of this low rpm upgrade kit. I was wondering if there was a way to regear. Where do I search for that? Does motion RC carry it?
                      Also, I am using a castle creations 160hv esc and right now I am using set endpoints because that is what one of the reps from motion RC suggested. I want to utilize governor mode but i need to figure out the “gear ratio” to enter in. As you know this heli utilizes 4 gears. I’m not sure how to figure out my gear ratio. If you or someone can help me with that then I can program my esc.
                      But I am very interested in this regear kit. Want a low head speed for a more scale flight but can’t sacrifice tail authority. Thanks.
                      Scaleflying.de has it. It’s not available on Motions site as far as I can tell: https://scaleflying.de/product_info....-mechanic.html.

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                      • #12
                        If I'm not mistaken the gear ratio for all Roban 700/800 size mechanics is 13.8:1. You can select ratio is the castle link program and put 13.8.

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                        • #13
                          Yes the math comes out to 13.8:1, however I actually got 13:1 when I tested it manually. It took 13 spins of the motor for the head to make one full rotation.
                          also I use the same ESC and I have gotten to the point now with all my helicopters using CC ESc’s to set them up as simple governor. That way I can set the speed in my radio and not have to reprogram the ESC every time I want to raise or lower the head speed.

                          Gravy

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                          • #14
                            That’s great. Thank you guys for that information. I will get that thing programmed and let you know how it goes.

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                            • #15
                              Ok I see in the esc program the options for “simple governor” and “set rpm”? Can you explain the difference? Gravy you said you use “simple” so that you don’t have to go back into the esc to change head speed. So If I use “set rpm” that’s what you have to do? Is that the only difference. Once I find the headspeed I want I’m sure I won’t be changing it but until then I guess it would be good to not have to plug it all into my computer to change the head speed.

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                              • #16
                                Sfcfury, just curious. Have you ever checked your ratio manually? Just interested to see if you get the 13:1 like I did.
                                Gravy

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                                • #17
                                  Just my 2 cents, but I’m seeing much better performance when I switched from ESC governor to FBL governor with my Beast X and Ikon 2. I read that the FBL will be faster making ESC changes based on your stick inputs and I found that to be true. I set my CC Talon to “external governor” and my Align and Hobbywing ESCs to “linear”. With the Beast X in governor mode the headspeed is set in the transmitter so changes are easy. My Ikon 2 is bluetooth so those changes I make from my IPad. No ESC reprogramming for headspeed changes is necessary.

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                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Gravythe clown View Post
                                    Sfcfury, just curious. Have you ever checked your ratio manually? Just interested to see if you get the 13:1 like I did.
                                    Gravy
                                    Yes I have done just a quick eyeball test... it was somewhere in the ballpark of 13.5 to 13.8. It was definitely over 13 flat.

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                                    • #19
                                      I should have the same gears I wonder why mine is 13:1. I did it a few times just to verify. Marked the motor and head. Strange.
                                      I’m going to have DCORSAIR check his to 800 and see if they match mine or 13.8.

                                      Gravy

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                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Aces View Post
                                        Ok I see in the esc program the options for “simple governor” and “set rpm”? Can you explain the difference? Gravy you said you use “simple” so that you don’t have to go back into the esc to change head speed. So If I use “set rpm” that’s what you have to do? Is that the only difference. Once I find the headspeed I want I’m sure I won’t be changing it but until then I guess it would be good to not have to plug it all into my computer to change the head speed.
                                        I have never used simple governor mode... from what I'm reading it almost seems like it wouldn't be much different than using fixed endpoints and just setting up a flat throttle curve at IU1 and IU2 in your radio.
                                        When you use Governor mode set rpm, that's when you have to put in your gear ratio, Kv, poles etc... and then set throttle curves at 30%, 70%, and 100%....
                                        The problem with set rpm mode is, if you don't like the headspeeds for whatever reason, you have to connect the esc back to the castle link program to change it.
                                        What motor and FBL are you running?

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