Turbine Engines and Turbine Jets offered by Motion RC?

[T-CAT]

Wow, that really does look amazing. It's incredible to see how various parts of the hobby have advanced in technology.

[Aussie1]

I was looking around on YouTube to find videos of the Sebart Avanti Mini with a X45. Someone posted a video of a nice flight with it.

T-Cat, I'm loving my Mini Avanti/X45 combination! I have now sold most of my other brand micro turbines and replaced them all with X45's, and what I love is because you have so much power, one litre of fuel will last over ten minutes due to low throttle used for most of a flight. Here is a video I made to prove fuel consumption in real time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gwl0nuxLnY

[T-CAT]

T-Cat, I'm loving my Mini Avanti/X45 combination! I have now sold most of my other brand micro turbines and replaced them all with X45's, and what I love is because you have so much power, one litre of fuel will last over ten minutes due to low throttle used for most of a flight. Here is a video I made to prove fuel consumption in real time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gwl0nuxLnY

Gotta love that! Thanks for the confirmation. As we speak, I'm building my Fiberglass/Balsa Sebart Mini Avanti in the Yellow/Black/Red color scheme with the Xicoy X45. I'm using the 1.3L Kevlar tank, but chances are I'll be filling it to 1L most of the time. It's amazing how small this little engine is.

That's a great video and truly shows just how light the plane can fly, has massive power even just cruising, and can achieve astonishing flight times even when flown aggressively.

[T-CAT]

I'm very impressed with the size and weight (and of course, the power) of this Xicoy X45 Turbine. For weight reference, the Wemotec Midifan Evo 90mm EDF power system is considered to be relatively light, yet the X45 turbine still weighs less. If using a heavier metal EDF shroud, larger motor, etc, a 90mm EDF could easily surpass 460+g. The X45 is an amazing piece of engineering by Gaspar at Xicoy. Very well done.

[Alpha]

The Xicoy X45 is an impressive bit of kit. I had the opportunity to put one through its paces last summer and it impressed me. Even though I'm primarily a JetCat guy, it's impossible to not find lots to like in the Xicoy. We intend to make good homes for these.

[Helijet]

What?
Yes....I am all for that Alpha! The F22, Avanti 80mm, T33 and L39 I have converted over fly great!
I have enjoyed JetCat for many years as well but this little engine is in a category all of its own.
Looking forward to your new offerings.

dw

[James]

I'm very impressed with the size and weight (and of course, the power) of this Xicoy X45 Turbine. For weight reference, the Wemotec Midifan Evo 90mm EDF power system is considered to be relatively light, yet the X45 turbine still weighs less. If using a heavier metal EDF shroud, larger motor, etc, a 90mm EDF could easily surpass 460+g. The X45 is an amazing piece of engineering by Gaspar at Xicoy. Very well done.

Knowing very little about Turbines, is the overall weight still less when you include the battery and esc with the electric motor vs the fuel and everything else needed for the turbine?

[Helijet]

In most of the Freewing conversions I have done the dry weight is slightly less than the flying weight ( battery included ) of the EDF. The weight of the fuel takes it over on take off and burns off during the flight.
On landing I am back to about the same weight as an EDF. The take off thrust and overall performance is vastly superior to any EDF - in my experience. I have done the T33, L39, F22 and Avanti 80 mm.

dw

[Beeg]

In most of the Freewing conversions I have done the dry weight is slightly less than the flying weight ( battery included ) of the EDF. The weight of the fuel takes it over on take off and burns off during the flight.
On landing I am back to about the same weight as an EDF. The take off thrust and overall performance is vastly superior to any EDF - in my experience. I have done the T33, L39, F22 and Avanti 80 mm.

dw

Don't you get more than 2.5 to 4 minutes with a turbine? To me that would be the biggest advantage.

[T-CAT]

The Xicoy X45 is an impressive bit of kit. I had the opportunity to put one through its paces last summer and it impressed me. Even though I'm primarily a JetCat guy, it's impossible to not find lots to like in the Xicoy. We intend to make good homes for these.

It really is mind blowing with it's brushless starter, brushless pump, small telemetry unit, quick start and restart, ability to run various fuel types, good fuel consumption, thrust and acceleration, relatively low residual thrust, and it's small and compact nature. I'd say the primary downside would be sending it overseas for maintenance when the time comes.

I've noticed the Freewing jets becoming more turbine conversion friendly, and I'm liking it, I'm liking it a lot, ha-ha. I think many will appreciate it, and there is a piece of the market you're tapping into by doing so, and falls right in line with your great saying of "something for everyone".

[T-CAT]

Knowing very little about Turbines, is the overall weight still less when you include the battery and esc with the electric motor vs the fuel and everything else needed for the turbine?

Hi James. Helijet summed it up well.

It does depend on the airframe your converting from electric to turbine as some don't lend as well to turbine use. For example, some aircraft have a location of the power system too far aft, where it may necessitate weight to be added to the nose of the aircraft to get it to achieve the proper CG when the turbine is installed in the same location the EDF was in (or create a custom mount to shift the turbine forward). Adding nose weight to account for an aft power plant position wouldn't be an ideal scenario and conversion. You will tend to see quite a bit of turbine aircraft have its engine located further forward than its EDF counterpart, although it does depend on the aircraft. You will also notice the turbine sit relatively close to the fuel tank, and it often does not require as large of intake area as electric, so some chose to close off the cheater hole if the aircraft had one for electric use.

The fuel tank essentially sits on the CG, and the aircraft is often balanced with the Air Trap full of fuel, all necessary operational equipment on board, and an empty main fuel tank. With a careful selection of the conversion aircraft, the turbine and parts choice, etc., a turbine aircraft can either match or potentially weigh less than its electric counterpart when weighed without fuel in the main tank. At takeoff, you may find the turbine at a heavier weight than the electric jet, but as the fuel is being consumed you're losing weight, which may have you land the aircraft at a weight that either matches or is less than the electric jet.

An interesting aspect about turbines is the consistent performance across the board, whereas electric can experience slowly degrading performance over the flight as the flight battery voltage drops. With the turbine, the aircrafts performance improves as the weight drops during fuel burn. There are times where turbine powered flight duration is improved over electric, all while improving performance.

I used to think thrust was thrust, regardless of how it were achieved, such as EDF vs. turbine. However, seeing a turbine and EDF with the same potential thrust output, the turbine seems to edge out electric in performance. For that matter, oddly enough, even some lower thrust output turbines installed in an aircraft that usually flies on an EDF at a bit higher thrust may sometimes still perform superior or match it. One recent video posted by Henke, who converts many electric to turbine aircraft, flew the Freewing T-33 on a very small and light Kolibri 1.5kg thrust turbine. The performance is spectacular for such low thrust, and it is hard to imagine 1.5kg thrust pushing the T-33 around like it does. I don't believe putting in a 1.5kg thrust EDF would have been nearly as impressive.

[T-CAT]

Here is Henke's video of the Freewing T-33 using a 1.5kg thrust turbine.

[Elbee]

T-CAT, Wow is all I can say. Impressive. The turbine is a drop-in? What other mods would be needed? Best, LB

[T-CAT]

Thanks Elbee. There is additional equipment required when using turbines. It also depends on whether it is a PNP aircraft like these Freewing jets vs. an aircraft you're putting all your own equipment in (such as HV servos, etc.). It is usually not a drop-in fit when doing a conversion, and requires additional modifications. This X45 will be going into a Fiberglass/Balsa Sebart Mini Avanti, so I haven't converted any foam aircraft with the turbine yet. Many friends at the field have with great success. Hopefully Helijet and others (Henke) can chime in on the conversions and what they specifically chose.

Some additional equipment needed, but not limited to, includes a fuel tank, appropriate turbine pipe, fuel line (my turbine didn't come with any), air trap, wheel brakes (an AMA turbine use rule), turbine battery, receiver battery and potentially a BEC if needed, telemetry unit if preferred, appropriate fire extinguisher, fueling canister/station, taxi fuel tank if preferred, approved turbine oil for your specific turbine, and additional support equipment and accessories.

Thankfully, once the initial purchase of the support equipment and some accessories has been done, then it is a little more smooth sailing from there since you have it. There is also the turbine waiver process done prior to operating a RC turbine aircraft, which can be researched on their website.

[Elbee]

T-CAT, Thanks for the quick response. So, much like my old fuel/nitro models in terms of accessories. Mods are made to accommodate fuel tank setups, additional batteries, heat avoidance, and so on, I presume. I am thinking the T-33 is a good candidate for this conversion. I will do some more research. Really like the idea. Best, LB

[T-CAT]

You're very welcome . Correct, it is similar from that standpoint. As a side note, the X45 or any 4.5kg thrust turbine is typically overboard on a model of this size and weight, and the turbine won't be utilized to its potential, and it can't be without danger of over stressing the airframe. Even on some fully composite models of larger size, the X45 is so powerful that it needs to be flown carefully to be within safe margins for the aircraft to not be overstressed. For models of this size and weight, I'd like to see what companies can make these days with the tech. being so advanced by producing a very small and light 2.5kg thrust turbine. I can only imagine if Xicoy did as it would likely be very tiny and compact.

I am not sure if the gentleman is a member of the forum, but Paul made a series of YouTube videos regarding the T-33 conversion with a Xicoy X45 turbine. That will be extremely helpful in seeing the conversion process. He went the extra mile and created a lot of amazing custom parts too. His channel is linked below. In the videos, it sounds like Paul is selling his conversion installation kits for the T-33, which is nice.

Also, Henke on RCgroups does many of the foam EDF jets to turbine conversions of all types, and is a great resource, among many others.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZN...F1Sw32lZf1mudg

[Elbee]

Thanks some more, T-Cat.

[T-CAT]

My pleasure!

[Helijet]

Nicely worded T-Cat. For anyone interested I have the topic noted in the RC Jets section of RC Canada

https://www.rccanada.ca/rccforum/sho...d.php?t=584119

Some discussions, pictures and overall flight impressions are included.

regards
Dean W.
Canada
MAAC 14436L
JPO
WJM 2011

[T-CAT]

Thank you Dean. I'll check out the rccanada website now.

[RichJ53]

Knowing very little about Turbines, is the overall weight still less when you include the battery and esc with the electric motor vs the fuel and everything else needed for the turbine?

Hi James
The simple answer depending on your airframe is the take off weights can be similar but as you burn the fuel the weight decreases as you go. Landing weight is much less than electric EDFs. You can adjust the total up weight by using slightly smaller airborne and turbine batteries. 28oz of fuel will give you about 7-8 minutes with the X45

Rich