ESC Program Card for Freewing 130A ESC

[T-CAT]

Some folks may already know what to use to program the Freewing 130A ESC found in the PNP 90mm EDF Freewing jets, while others may not. As you all may be aware of, programming an ESC via the transmitter is a nightmare more often than not. It can be a long and tedious process, and one small mistake can set a person back quite a bit of time and much frustration :D. I found quite a bit of people at my local field wanting to program their Freewing 130A ESC's whether that be for timing purposes, voltage cut-off, etc., and they were doing so via the TX, and giving up on the process. Thankfully, there is a much easier and quicker method, a simple and cheap program card.

To the eye, these Freewing 130A ESC's look like what Hobbywing (the manufacturer of these ESC's) refers to as their Platinum series ESC's due to the casing with the heat sink, coloration of the case, etc. So, it would appear the Hobbywing Multifunctional (aka 3 in 1) LED Program Box would program the ESC. This is not the case and the box will not recingnize the ESC. The Freewing 130A ESC is actually considered a Fly-Fun/Skywalker series ESC in Hobbywing's line-up. Therefore, the cheaper (than the multifunction box) program card works flawless with the Freewing 130A ESC's, and recognizes/changes the necessary settings with ease. The program card is the Hobbywing Card for the FlyFun/Skywalker airplane ESC's linked below. It can be found for between $5-8 from most vendors. Be aware that this program card is sold under various branding simply because the Hobbywing Fly-Fun (which looks to be the replacement for the Pentium and works perfect with this card too) and Skywalker series ESC's are rebranded by many under different names. I've tested this card to work with the following ESC's (please always check for yourself before ordering as some brands have different line-ups of ESC's that need a different card): Hobbywing FlyFun, Hobbywing Skywalker, Turnigy Plush, Exceed RC Proton, Freewing 130A. There is likely many others that work, but I haven't personally tested any others beyond the ones mentioned such as some HSD ESC's made by Hobbywing, etc.

Below are a couple links to the cards that should work just fine (my old Hobbywing-Pentium/Turnigy-Plush card still work perfect with these ESC's too, and is the card that looks the same with the button and light set-up, just different colors and a little thicker casing).

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-...ming-card.html

http://www.hobbywingdirect.com/produ...-flyfun-series

http://www.rcdude.com/mobile/Product.aspx?id=38197

http://www.valuehobby.com/hobbywing-...gram-card.html

I hope this helps some of you out. Motion, you should sell these inexpensive program cards on your website, and customer service reps. can also let folks know there are program cards available to adjust their ESC settings. Also, if/once you do start to sell it, a link to the card under the spare parts or upgrades tab for the airplane that has this ESC would be great for easy reference for the customer. Please test this information yourselves though for validity. I have done so myself, but I don't sell these. I noticed you sell the Dynam and Tomcat cards, which appear to be the same. However, if you purchased and sold the Hobbywing Fly-Fun/Skywalker program card, then you can just list the various ESC's it would work with instead of worrying about having several or more branded program cards that end up working the same way for different brands of ESC's. That way it's one part number, one product to order and keep stocked, and one product to maintain the description to add or delete the various ESC's that work with it.

[Westsider]

Tech chat with T-CAT :cool:. You guys keep teaching man, we love it!

[Lon]

T-Cat, have you found changing the timing on the ESC from say Low to High, making much of a difference? More with Prop than EDF?

[T-CAT]

Tech chat with T-CAT :cool:. You guys keep teaching man, we love it!

Ha-ha, thanks Westsider. I'm hoping this helps people out because incorrect ESC settings can be a real pain in the neck, and so can programming via TX.

[T-CAT]

T-Cat, have you found changing the timing on the ESC from say Low to High, making much of a difference? More with Prop than EDF?

Hi Lon! I check/program virtually all of my ESC's before flying a new model or power system (it's one of my pre-maiden flight checks), but some ESC's won't need a single thing done to them to work perfect out of the box. That just depends on whether the current default ESC settings are providing the mated motor with compatibility. The ESC needs to communicate properly with the motor, and if it doesn't then some strange things begin to occur. These particular ESC's don't have many options for programming, but that isn't usually needed very often, as the bare essentials gets the job done. All motors and ESC combos may act differently with one another. This is where the programming comes in handy. For example, there are times when outrunner motors run better on medium and high timing, but not always. Then Inrunner motors may run better on low or medium timing, but isn't always the case either. I have had the complete opposite occur.

So, the first thing to do with a power system before actually using it for flight is to test out the power system on the ground with the current ESC settings the way it is out of the box very carefully. Before I do so, I confirm what the stock default ESC settings are first by plugging in the program card. After that, I'll do a slow run-up to full power that takes me about 15-20 seconds. I will let the motor cool if needed (you don't want a long run-up during static testing anyhow since there isn't any airflow to cool the electronics properly), and then perform a second test run that simulates quick power transition, taking 2-3 seconds to go from zero to 100%. I analyze the way the motor responds to both tests, the sounds heard, etc., and if the ESC is or is not communicating well with the motor. If it's not doing well, there may tend to be potential skipping of the motor, or clicking noises, pulsing, etc. That can be an indicator that the current timing (sometimes PWM settings will come into play as well, but these cards do not have the ability to alter that setting) isn't set correctly for that specific motor (a lot goes into the correct ESC settings for various inrunner/outrunner motors with their pole count, KV, etc. that all makes a difference). So, in my opinion it's good practice to begin using the lowest possible timing available, and do a test run to analyze operation. If it still has some funky things going on, increase the timing to Medium, and test again. If it's all good and things are working great, it's usually best to maintain that timing setting. If it's still acting unusual, then you can increase to High timing and see if that fixes any running issues. Usually you'll find one of those timing settings will pair well with the motor.

Now, often times higher timing is used by some just in hopes of more power output. Higher timing can increase power, but it often increases potential heat and current as well. That's why it's wise to use the lowest possible timing that achieves a smooth and properly operating power system, and not increase timing just to get more power. If the higher timing is used just for potential increase in power at the expense of added heat and current, yet there isn't a noticeable and worthwhile gain in RPM's, then it's certainly not worth the increase in timing considering you'll be taking the motor closer to it's max operating temperature, getting less flight time, and stressing your components without anything or much in return. Motor manufacturers will tend to provide the best timing setting, but due to the variations in ESC functionality with a motor, altered settings may be needed for proper function.

While your program card is on, that's also a good time to confirm the rest of your settings like whether the ESC is already set for LiPo operation (instead of another battery type), the brake function is on or off to your liking, the voltage cutoff, etc. Once you know what settings to check for, what you prefer for the type of aircraft you're flying, it takes very little time to scroll through and change. It's great assurance that your components will work, and work to your standards before sending up an aircraft. A bit more piece of mind is always nice in RC, ha-ha ;). The above is my opinion, and the way I like to do things, and as always if you decide to do any ground testing please take the utmost care to prevent any harm that could be done by doing so.

[Alpha]

Very helpful write up, T-Cat, thank you for posting this!

[Lon]

Thank you very much T-Cat for your detailed answer to my questions. The time and detail you spent with your experience on this topic is greatly appreciated!!! :)

[Westsider]

This sounds pretty focused, unbiased, and expert to me ;). Just sayin'...

[Aspirin]

Well done T-CAT. MotionRC would do well to incorporate much of this in the knowledge base.

What do do you mean by "often times higher timing is used by some JUST in hopes of more power output"? Higher timing does increase current and as a result increases heat and power consumption. What I didn't see mentioned, but think you are hinting at, is efficiency. Too much advance timing will drop the efficiency of the motor. Meaning that the added current draw may not increase the power output in direct relationship to the increased current. This is dangerous as it is this drop in efficiency that causes the windings to heat up.

I think you touched on this. But Can you go into the relationship between the PWM frequency (often a card adjustable variable ) and motor verses ESC stress (heat build up)?

It is not only your opinion but that of pioneers like Bob Boucher (Astro Flight) that bench testing power systems at full power is to be done is short intervals. This isn't so much a concern with airflow over the heat sinks (most pressure cowls can address that) but rather there is no slip stream unloading the prop (rotor). (If you have telemetry on your aircraft you might have noticed the motor current drop as you reach speed). This inflight current is often down 20% from the full throttle bench current reading.

[T-CAT]

Thanks Westsider, Lon, Alpha, and Aspirin.

[T-CAT]

Well done T-CAT. MotionRC would do well to incorporate much of this in the knowledge base.

What do do you mean by "often times higher timing is used by some JUST in hopes of more power output"? Higher timing does increase current and as a result increases heat and power consumption. What I didn't see mentioned, but think you are hinting at, is efficiency. Too much advance timing will drop the efficiency of the motor. Meaning that the added current draw may not increase the power output in direct relationship to the increased current. This is dangerous as it is this drop in efficiency that causes the windings to heat up.

I think you touched on this. But Can you go into the relationship between the PWM frequency (often a card adjustable variable ) and motor verses ESC stress (heat build up)?

It is not only your opinion but that of pioneers like Bob Boucher (Astro Flight) that bench testing power systems at full power is to be done is short intervals. This isn't so much a concern with airflow over the heat sinks (most pressure cowls can address that) but rather there is no slip stream unloading the prop (rotor). (If you have telemetry on your aircraft you might have noticed the motor current drop as you reach speed). This inflight current is often down 20% from the full throttle bench current reading.

That's for sure, as the incredible minds in this industry and their diverse backgrounds regarding electronics, testing of various systems, and their relationships are phenomenal. They (and likely many electrical engineers on this very forum) would know much more than I on the workings of Pulse Width Modulation, duty cycle, etc. From my understanding, the ESC and motor are communicating via specific pulse frequencies (HZ), and how often those frequency pulse updates are sent, to translate into what is recognized as zero versus full throttle setting. The PWM controls the motor speed by turning current on and off in a series of pulses. Higher PWM frequencies come at a cost of increased heat build-up in the controller, so it would be wise to choose the lowest PWM frequency found to provide a smooth operating motor that sufficient efficiency.

That's correct, I was speaking of efficiency. With the higher timing used, if the current and power consumption increases, yet very little thrust and RMP's are achieved, it wouldn't be worth the added heat and stress placed upon the components. If there was a linear relationship between components, it would be ideal. Telemetry can most definitely be of use in this case, as propeller driven aircraft can unload quite a bit in the air compared to ground testing. That's one reason I like ground testing first, as I know the results achieved on the ground will provide a decent depiction of the power systems operation before getting airborne in more ideal conditions.

[Aspirin]

T-Cat, I know you were basically trying to show that the use of an ESC programing card is highly valuable to us the modeler. And that if they are available for the ESC one is using they are well worth the cost.

That being said I’m concerned that many folks don’t know how to ascertain what the “function” often called out actually control. Or why there are options in the ESC. You made a very good point as to showing why timing is often found on these ESC cards.

Now I have a concern with the term “communicating”. Are we still talking about sensorless three phase DC motors?
My understanding is that there are no communication protocols between the motor and the Brushless senseless motor and the ESC. The reason we even have timing issue Is that inductors (the winding) are resistant to current changes. So we need to give the current time to build up so that the electrical force fields are strongest when the magnets are in the proper position to develop maximum torque for an given current. What I thin you are referencing as a communication is that in a brushless ESC the ESC can detect the current voltage lead lag phase shift. This is not a communication protocol it is just a property of an inductor, winding or coil that the ESC is exploiting. This is why just about any brand of Brushless ESC will work with just about any 3 phase DC motor.

The frequency of the ESC is used to try to get the PWM switching to mimic an ideal DC motor. (real world motors have Iron and Copper losses). The higher the ESC frequency the more efficient the motor. But this puts more stress on the ESC. Now low iron motors like the Kontronik Tango series of motors need very high ESC frequencies to run efficiently. So not all ESC will work with these low iron designs.

Many of the higher end ESC now have what is called freewheeling circuits. These use the idle transistors (FET) to protect the powered transistor from the induced voltage as the field (winding) collapses. I have found that engaging the freewheeling circuits on the bench with little or no load with cause the ESC to loose commutation (screech like a small block engine running out of oil). Freewheeling circuits help keep the efficiency numbers up for efficiency part throttle setting.

Now I too am not a double EE, just an enthusiast so I will yield to those that know. But this is the whys of what I do when setting up an ESC.

Back to the timing issue I have found the Delta winds need much less advance that Wye wind motors. Most of the motors we use in our foam models are Wye (Y) winds.

[T-CAT]

I see what you're saying. I'm using the word "communication" in the loose sense of the word, as in properly jiving, meshing well, partnering, etc., and not electrical terminology of current regulation ;).

There are some great articles written by some genius folks with extensive electrical engineering education that I should still have saved as links on my computer internet browser "favorites" folder. If so, I'll be sure to link them here. Better yet, it may be best to have another thread started with this purpose in mind, delving deeper in those topics As you pointed out, this thread is meant mainly for the reference to the proper programming card used on the Freewing 130A ESC and other rebranded Hobbywing ESC's, and the value of such an inexpensive and intuitive device.

[Aspirin]

Intuitive?

Heck, “I” must be dumber than a box of bricks. I often don’t know what half the features are. Let alone understand how to implement and adjust them. The array of parameters in some of the higher end ESC when it comes to for example governor setting is enough to make ones head hurt. And no aspirin doesn’t help!


Yes, most Chinese ESC are rebranded products from two OEMs, ZTW and FreeWing.

[T-CAT]

Yep, operating this particular card is intuitive....you click up, down, left, right, then click OK to finalize. It doesn't get much easier than that. There is even a separate button with arrows for up/down, left/right, and a OK button.

Nobody said that this card or other cards couldn't use more detailed instructions describing what each setting does. That doesn't mean the card isn't intuitive though ;).

[Aspirin]

...
Nobody said that this card or other cards couldn't use more detailed instructions describing what each setting does. That doesn't mean the card isn't intuitive though ;).

So true!

I often miss the simple enter or save commands.


While moving around the card may be simple and fraught with little or no anxiety. The reason for the card’s existence is not so intuitive. You knew this and went into great detail trying to explain some of the higher level functions of an ESC (and this card) with the whys and hows of the adjustment. It is my hope that others will get these cards and explore the full potential of the power system that is “easily at our finger tip”.

Seasons Greeting,

[T-CAT]

There is no doubt others should explore further information regarding their hobby and the tools they purchase for it. The same applies for learning about the various ESC settings available.

[scottmb57]

Thanks to T-Cat and the rest. I am just setting up my Freewing F-18E V2. I will get the program card. This will be my first EDF and I want it to go well.
Many Thanks, Scott

[T-CAT]

Congratulations on the F-18 Scott. I'm glad this helped, and have fun with the new jet.

[Scamp73]

I have the Freewing Mig 21 with 100 amp Freewing ESC. Anyone know what card works with it? I am getting low voltage issues with this ESC. Basically if I bail out in a take off the motor keeps ruining for a couple of seconds and killing me on my bail out. Grass runway....