Moving Spektrum AS3X and SAFE receivers to a different plane

[ewengstrom]

Howdy folks, new guy here. After MANY years away I've finally picked up the flying bug again and am having a blast getting acquainted with all the new flying toys out there. I've purchased a "new" Parkzone Corsair S and have been enjoying flying it with a Spektrum DX6i and then ran up on a mildly abused (flown once....crashed once) FMS P40-B 1400 mm. The fellow obviously pulled the AR636A receiver from another aircraft and judging from what I'm reading above I'm taking a stab at it that this move caused his unfortunate "radical aircraft speed reduction incident".
So am I just chasing my tail here trying to make this thing work with my plane and radio? I've ordered the programming cable and ain't afraid to use it......but am I just chasing my tail here?

[xviper]

It may depend on what plane the AR636A came out of or if it was a receiver that was purchased free and clear of all programming. Some of these receivers come from planes that are NOT re-programmable. The owner's manual for those planes even state that the RX CANNOT be used in any other application. However, if you are getting the programming cable to be used with a smart phone app, Horizon Hobby has a lengthy series of YouTube videos showing you how to program every aspect of the RX. Start with some very conservative rates and gains. If everything is set to zero, it acts like any other RX.

[BILLY BOY]

In my humble opinion the Spektrum "programmable" rx are far too much trouble. First off, I paid nearly $30 more for the Spektrum only to find out I needed another $22 programming cable to make it work. On top of that, I could not make it work. I called HH cust. service and they advised me on what to do.....still no luck. I returned both for customer credit. I then happened upon the trusty Lemon 7 ch. rx with stabilization. It works great, costs less than half as much ($22 shipped to your door) and all three axis are adjustable from the rx. My Tx is a Spektrum 6 so on my aircraft with retracts stabilization is only on when wheels are down. This works great for take off and landing. During wheels up.....I am free to do whatever flying style I choose to do. I pulled my Spektrum rx out of my Apprentice s 15E and installed it in my Eflite PT17 Stearman. It seems to be working great on the bench. I have all three experience modes. I haven't taken her up as yet due to the horrible weather here in SD. I now have the Lemon rx installed in nearly all of my aircraft with the exception of my Timber and my Commander. I am new to this site and really enjoy it. Peace

[rifleman_btx]

When I flew spektrum I was a lemonrx guy all day. Just couldn't match the quality to price on them. Also getting equivalent features for about half the price

[F22trainer]

In my humble opinion the Spektrum "programmable" rx are far too much trouble. First off, I paid nearly $30 more for the Spektrum only to find out I needed another $22 programming cable to make it work. On top of that, I could not make it work. I called HH cust. service and they advised me on what to do.....still no luck. I returned both for customer credit. I then happened upon the trusty Lemon 7 ch. rx with stabilization. It works great, costs less than half as much ($22 shipped to your door) and all three axis are adjustable from the rx. My Tx is a Spektrum 6 so on my aircraft with retracts stabilization is only on when wheels are down. This works great for take off and landing. During wheels up.....I am free to do whatever flying style I choose to do. I pulled my Spektrum rx out of my Apprentice s 15E and installed it in my Eflite PT17 Stearman. It seems to be working great on the bench. I have all three experience modes. I haven't taken her up as yet due to the horrible weather here in SD. I now have the Lemon rx installed in nearly all of my aircraft with the exception of my Timber and my Commander. I am new to this site and really enjoy it. Peace

I'm at the point where I am experiencing similar 'growing pains'. I've been getting most of my practice with an HZ Carbon Cub and my resto mod 3 channel trainer with no enhancements to the reciever or TX - pure old school except the motor which is a Power 10 from eFlite with a 40 A ESC. Despite the simplicity and dihedral stability it keeps you on your toes. That said I got my own PT-17 about a month ago and probably have a couple dozen flights with it - the BNF version with AS3X and SAFE. I really only use the SAFE mode for landing, but am at the point where I forget to turn it on and wind up with some pretty good landings by surprise! So betweeen the foamies with Spektrum enhancements and just a little luck, I've been able to get thru setting them up and binding with little trouble and really like the products. However, programming has begun sharpening my learning curve. I bought an Admiral reciever which is Spektrum compatible, has some easy to follow instructions and some well done instructional videos by MRC. But this also required I learn to program my DXe radio with the ap, so I am planing an upgrade soon so I can just load a new airplane and configure it in the radio TX. But yes, the less expensive lines don't quite do the same things as documented, with this radio and sometimes you really have to dig below the surface to correct a setting that prohibits what should be an easy click of a button. the main reason for a different compatible brand was simplicity, but that doesn't always work, and in fact you may have given me the key to resolving one of my program issues - wheel up disables stabilization...
I'll see if it works - great to see another returning AWOL pilot with similar interest.

[F22trainer]

I suppose I should have maybe mentioned all of this came about as a result of completing my own builds

[ewengstrom]

Thanks for the various responses folks, it is much appreciated.
XViper, I'm afraid there may be no way to find out what plane this AR636 came out of, I bought it used and "as is" and I think he just stuck it in there, rammed the throttle forward and promptly gave up flying when he didn't get the results he wanted. (maybe not...but I'll never know for sure) I'm supposed to get that programming cable today so we'll see what I can do with that.
Billy Boy, I read your post and poked around looking at the Lemon receivers and I figure if this AR636 gives me a really bad attitude I'll simply replace it with something that will work without the glitches. I have no intention of augering this baby in on her first flight due to my failure to set it up correctly. Bad piloting in one thing....but proper setup can be worked out before hand.
I still have some repairs to do to the plane too before it's truly flight worthy so I'll report back once I noodle through all the issues. Wish me luck!!!!

[StefanL38]

Hello Everybody,

while I was googling for the other "SAFE in another plane"-thread I discovered this userforum.
First of all I can understand that Horizonhobby has the position "use SAFE receiver just in the plane they were made for.

Customers vary from nooby beginners to expert RC-pilots on skill-level
from super-careful to boldly daring in character
from generally a bit embecile to sophisticated high intellegent

Some of these combinations of personal properties would lead to people experimentating with SAFE-receivers in other planes without knowing what they are doing and then complain at Horizon-Hobby-Customer-Service
crazy things like "why did my plane fly into the tree?" or "why was my plane not autolanding against the wind?"

The truth is inbetween: If you really understand how SAFE works and if you do benchtesting to analyse how it works in the plane you want to use SAFE in
it is possible to use SAFE-receiver in other planes.

This is not meant as advertising another userforum. It is just information: On RC-groups there is a thread "SAFE in another plane" that has reached post No 12725.
In the very first post there is a list of more than 200 planes that have been modified to use a SAFE-Rx successfully

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?2135213-Eflite-SAFE-RX-in-another-plane

SAFE_-Rx is not equeal to SAFE-Rx: Over the years Horizonhobby (HH) has developped a minimum of 4 types of SAFE-Rxs.
Apprentice SAFE-Rx,, older and newer AR636A-SAFE newer AR636 SAFE select-receivers The AR636A and SAFE-select have different firmwares optimized for the plane they were made for.

Using a SAFE-Rx in another plane first of all needs the readiness to learn NEW things. It needs the willing to learn some BASIC things about how servocontrol and SAFE works.
Then it needs 1-4 hours to read and to understand how SAFE works
And it needs 1-3 hours of bench-testing to make it really work in other planes.

You might need to REVERSE servo-movements INSIDE the plane (reversing on your Tx will lead to a crash!)
By turning servohorns or by using servosignal-reversers or by using a PC-software.
If one of these things is too much for you keep away. For all other start reading and start asking

The rocket-engineer-level of modifing AR636-receivers is to modify firmware-parameters in a textfile. and to update this modified firmware in the receiver.


This other thread has a "golden phrase": Better SAFE than sorry"

I want to add a second "phrase: "You better FULLY understand SAFE or you will be sorry"

best regards

Stefan

Using SAFE-Rx in two electric-gliders, small planes with 300g weight, and other planes with wingspans from 700 mm to 1500 mm.
High-wing trainers, midwing 3D-planes, low-wing-planes.

[TiredIronGRB]

Thanks for the write up Stefan, and welcome to Hobby Squawk!

[Jeremiah777]

SAFETY NOTE: always rebind the receiver to the radio when moving it to a new plane. I heard many horror
What about the new receivers with SAFE Select?
It is my understanding that receivers with SAFE Select are locked and cannot be adjusted. However, SAFE can be turned on or off during the bind process. If SAFE is off, the receiver can be used as a standard AS3X receiver, but the AS3X is locked and cannot be fine tuned.[/QUOTE]

I have found a way to reenable SAFE using the Spektrum phone programmer. It’s kinda tricky, but it works; patience and effort is all that’s needed. First, I deleted the selected plane in the “dashboard” by holding down on the selected plane for a couple seconds. Then I powered on my reciever (with no propeller installed), reopened the AS3X app, selected “Transfer Settings From Receiver”, went under list of models available and selected the bottom option “Open Stock (Safe Enabled), and went through the setup wizard. I may’ve missed something, so I’ll try it again tonight when I have some free time.

[xviper]

If you don't change the "model memory" in the TX or change any of the base menu parameters, there shouldn't be any need to re-bind. The RX and TX don't have any idea what model the the receiver is in. You can even change the "name" of the model and the trim tabs and it'll still think it's the same plane. IE, if you don't "reset, delete" the model and select a "new model" and keeping all parameters the same, re-binding should not be necessary. However, in some AS3X with SAFE receivers, it won't even bind quickly or smoothly the first time and in many of those cases, the operator was standing too close to the RX with the TX. It may take many times to do the job and it may require binding every time even if the plane is the same. This is not due to a new plane being introduced but rather, the fact that some of these RXs have been known to be "odd". The Timber is a prime example. There are 4 Timbers at my field. 3 of them have never been problematic while one of them had the horror stories and it had nothing to do with the RX being put into a different plane.
I've moved one of these RXs into another plane and selected a "new model". Of course, I had to bind it again to the new model. That was no surprise.

[2Fast4u2c]

Hi all, a FNG here, have 6ea 636 receivers installed on different aircraft. Is there a repository of programming files anywhere where we could just upload a basic programming setting for a particular aircraft? I know that rx'r position would have to be programmed, but maybe all the gain settings would be helpful or am I asking too much?

[xviper]

Hi all, a FNG here, have 6ea 636 receivers installed on different aircraft. Is there a repository of programming files anywhere where we could just upload a basic programming setting for a particular aircraft? I know that rx'r position would have to be programmed, but maybe all the gain settings would be helpful or am I asking too much?

Take a look here: https://www.spektrumrc.com/Products/...rodID=SPMAR636 Under "manuals and support", "Receiver configurations".
I have not tried any of these and I'm not sure if it's even anything that will help you.

[2Fast4u2c]

Thank you Sir. The files in the zip files have .srm while the files in the DX8 are .spm
I will have to check out on one of my 636's. Will report back.

[prestonowtm]

I use the pre programmed E flite P47 safe receiver in almost every one of my FMS warbirds. They work like a charm for windy days and make landings almost crash proof. My "junk pile" has not gotten bigger in quite a while. The P-51 I did have to turn the elevator servo arm around. Even have one in the Flightline P38. Great receiver. Wish they had them 10 years ago...would have saved a lot of bucks. When you transfer one warbird safe receiver to another warbird...they are all set up pretty much the same way with the same flight characteristics. HH will sell you one over the phone for 79$. Just ask for it programmed with the P47 safe. And the newer DX8 spectrum transmitter has a gain control knob that is quite handy.

[feathercut]

Regarding warbirds.

1- Purchase a AR636 (not-A). 2- Download latest firmware from Speftrum which describes itself as “SAFE enable”. 3- Install Spektrum PC app. 4- Attach AR636 to PC with Spektrum USB cable. 5- Install updated firmware. 6- Download Spektrum model profile for the 1.2 Mustang. 7- Install profile onto the AR636.

This will give you 3 position switch expert, stabilize and SAFE. This should work for all warbirds that are similar to the eFlight 1.2 Mustang. (Servo direction MUST be checked, etc).

I purchased an eFlight 1.2 Mustang without the usually includes AR636. (Out of stock). And this worked perfectly with my DX9.

Have not tried this with another similar warbird but based on an earlier comment on this thread this may?? work. You could use the phone app with Spektrum Bluetooth dongle and fine tune the settings.

Plesae let me hear your thoughts and any similar experiences.

[xviper]

It's good that you can simply download the file for a given Eflite plane when using a 636. However, if you use it on some other type, brand and size of plane, you will likely have to do your own programming (using a base program for a similar Eflite plane and adjusting from there). A different plane will fly differently, whereby it will respond in a different way to stabilization. A plane that flies faster or slower will need different gains and priorities (a fast plane needs less gain or it will vibrate itself to death if you don't catch it in time, for eg, put a 636 from a slow flyer into an EDF jet and you may have an uncontrollable plane that you won't be able to get down before something tears off it). A bigger plane with bigger control surfaces will react differently than one with smaller control surfaces.
I got so fed up with the trial and error programming that I've stopped using the 636 in all my planes except for one. And the high cost of them is unacceptable to me when I can buy 3 gyro stabilized RXs from Lemon/Admiral for the same price.

[feathercut]

Agree with you on your points and well taken. Also agree Lemon is a very good receiver with good expert and gyro mode. BUT I read it is a bit wonky in Autolevel - can do some unexpected excursions. Your experience with Autolevel????
At my level of flying similar warbirds to the 1.2 Mustang I want the option of Autolevel. I’m a warbird nut. Similar prop jobs. No ducted fans high speed.

[feathercut]

This is the Spektrum site for firmware and model profile downloads.

https://www.spektrumrc.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=SPMAR636

[xviper]

Agree with you on your points and well taken. Also agree Lemon is a very good receiver with good expert and gyro mode. BUT I read it is a bit wonky in Autolevel - can do some unexpected excursions. Your experience with Autolevel????
At my level of flying similar warbirds to the 1.2 Mustang I want the option of Autolevel. I’m a warbird nut. Similar prop jobs. No ducted fans high speed.

You are likely correct about the auto-level feature. I've never had any luck with it. I tried it on a couple of planes and the plane went nuts. I've only ever had it work on one plane but in time, it stopped working. I don't trust that feature anymore so I don't use it on any of my planes although I still have one installed in my Mig 29. The Stabilizer is rock solid and the "hover" mode is very interesting to see. I never use the auto-level on it.
The only device that I trust with this sort of feature is much, much more expensive but about the same as the 636 when combined with a normal RX. That device is the Bigaole "Return to Home" module. It runs about 80 bucks so when combined with a cheap (20 bucks) Lemon/Admiral, it's similar ball park pricing. The Bigaole is terrific in that you can turn it off via a 3-way switch, turn it ON at will for stabilizer and flip it to "RTH" when you get into trouble. In RTH mode, the plane will right itself and come back to you under power at the last altitude it was after it corrects it's position. It does require at least 50 feet of altitude for it to regain it's composure, but then, so does the "SAFE" feature of the 636 when the plane is upside down and going sideways. The Bigaole is generally used for sailplanes but I've had it on a conventional plane like the HobbyKing SkyMule and on a flying wing and it's remarkable to see it do its thing.