Help with Dual Rates

[chipset35]

I have an E-Flite P47D Razorback 1.2m and it's manual says to set the dual rates to 100% High and 70% Low.
However, the Spektrum receiver that came with the aircraft only allows a percentage rate that sets two numbers at the same time in the DR/Expo menu.
For example, if I move the DR to 100% it sets both numbers at the same time.
Lowering or raising the number does it to both at the same time.
There is no way to seemingly set 100% and 70%.
Also, there is a nice chart in the manual showing dual rates in mm's.
Not sure why one chart shows it in percentages and the other in mm's.
Also, no way I can find to set mm's in the Spektrum RX and TX.
Any help would be appreciated.

[TiredIronGRB]

I have an E-Flite P47D Razorback 1.2m and it's manual says to set the dual rates to 100% High and 70% Low.
However, the Spektrum receiver that came with the aircraft only allows a percentage rate that sets two numbers at the same time in the DR/Expo menu.
For example, if I move the DR to 100% it sets both numbers at the same time.
Lowering or raising the number does it to both at the same time.
There is no way to seemingly set 100% and 70%.
Also, there is a nice chart in the manual showing dual rates in mm's.
Not sure why one chart shows it in percentages and the other in mm's.
Also, no way I can find to set mm's in the Spektrum RX and TX.
Any help would be appreciated.

Which radio? are you trying to set it in "Travel" or in "Dual Rates"?

[xviper]

Which radio? are you trying to set it in "Travel" or in "Dual Rates"?

Agreed! "Rates and expo" should give you 2 sets of numbers, one for each switch position ........................ 3 rates if you have 3-position switches.

[fhhuber]

You can only set percentage in the transmitter... any transmitter.

mm is measured at the trailing edge of the control surface and will change based on servo, linkage and the % set in the TX and/or other electronics.

As to getting the numbers to change as desired, you have t flip the switch to the position you will use, then change the value for that switch position.

Also you may have disabled the switch from being active in one or more positions...

I use the "Flight Mode" function for my dual (multiple...) rates since the different rates are normally associated with flap settings and other settings.

[chipset35]

It is the DX6e 6-Channel DSMX Transmitter.
I tried to set it in the Dual Rates menu

[xviper]

I have an E-Flite P47D Razorback 1.2m and it's manual says to set the dual rates to 100% High and 70% Low.
However, the Spektrum receiver that came with the aircraft only allows a percentage rate that sets two numbers at the same time in the DR/Expo menu.
For example, if I move the DR to 100% it sets both numbers at the same time.
Lowering or raising the number does it to both at the same time.
There is no way to seemingly set 100% and 70%.
Also, there is a nice chart in the manual showing dual rates in mm's.
Not sure why one chart shows it in percentages and the other in mm's.
Also, no way I can find to set mm's in the Spektrum RX and TX.
Any help would be appreciated.

Those two numbers are for either UP/DOWN on the elevator or ailerons OR left/right on the rudder. With more advanced Tx's, you can make the control surface go a different distance in one direction compared to the other if that's what you want. Did you try highlighting another line in the menu? Or did you flip the switch to see if it goes to the other set of numbers. Plane manuals give throws in mm because that's what you measure when you set rates. Tx give it to you in % because each transmitter may give a different throw at any given %. That's why they're different.
From the looks of some of your other threads, it would appear that you are progressing quite quickly in this hobby in terms of the kinds of planes you are acquiring. It might be time to get yourself a more advanced transmitter. That DX6e is very basic and limiting to what you can do.

[Woodcock]

It is the DX6e 6-Channel DSMX Transmitter.
I tried to set it in the Dual Rates menu

AS Viper said a better transmitter might help. I really don't know too much about DX6e. I just took a look at a picture of it on the Motion web site. Looks like it has pretty much the same on the front as my DX9, (meaning the front LCD display). In my opinion it's important, NOT to get into to big a hurry here Chip. Motion's tech support is really second to none. Problem is these programming functions can be pretty cryptic and confusing in the beginning. Once you learn them, you'll think god was I being an idiot, (This is how I felt, I'm not implying anyone is an idiot). Get someone from motion on the phone, and have them walk you thru it to make sure you get this right, very important! Yea I know hurry up and wait. If you do talk to them, discuss setting up some expo on those channels too. It can be linked to the same rate switch in a DX9, not sure about a DX6e. What expo does, is it allows you to set very precise control on your minimal control movements, and still allows you to keep the full throw if needed for any reason. This can make the plane much more manageable.

One last thing Chip, all your rates don't have to be the same on a specific setting. I like to have full or almost full on my elevator control at all times.

If it were me, I would make sure this radio will not do what you need it to do, prior to purchasing a new one. They're always things to spend more money on in this hobby, let me tell ya. Take some time, there are a lot of cool radios out there, I'm certain you will upgrade eventually. Spektrum's are kinda hard to beat, but they're are a lot of really cool radios.

Good Luck
Best Regards
Woody

[chipset35]

Thanks guys, I will let you know how this works out

[mcriley2]

I have an E-Flite P47D Razorback 1.2m and it's manual says to set the dual rates to 100% High and 70% Low.
However, the Spektrum receiver that came with the aircraft only allows a percentage rate that sets two numbers at the same time in the DR/Expo menu.
For example, if I move the DR to 100% it sets both numbers at the same time.
Lowering or raising the number does it to both at the same time.
There is no way to seemingly set 100% and 70%.
Also, there is a nice chart in the manual showing dual rates in mm's.
Not sure why one chart shows it in percentages and the other in mm's.
Also, no way I can find to set mm's in the Spektrum RX and TX.
Any help would be appreciated.

Excuse me guys for eavesdropping on your conversation, but I was very much interested in all the assistance you offered 'chipset35' on his dual rate subject. If you don't mind a couple of questions from me.

First - when setting up dual rates and travel, should travel be set first before setting up dual rares or does it really matter??? Second - can setting proper travel be done by changing control arm position and transmitter settings or just with the control arms ???

[Tom]

This is one of those items where there are many ways to tackle it. You can't really set the travel mechanically. You can only set the neutral position mechanically. I'd set the neutral position mechanically first then use subtrim to perfect the neutral position. Once that is complete, set travel while at 100% rates. At that point you can set your lower of the dual rates using a percentage. Personally, I'm really never worried about travel or exact measurements anywhere but flaps and elevator (assuming elevator is using multiple servos). Even then, I'm only concerned they are the same. I'm not worried about exact travel. Only that the control surfaces move in tandem and the endpoint is the same. I simply set a 100% rate, 80% rate, and 60% rate and go fly. I tweak rates on subsequent flights and never worry about total amount of travel. I do frequently separate elevator servos into two different channels so I can subtrim an exact neutral and sent endpoints identical both up and down. That makes it a very precise model. Again, I just make sure they move relative to each other. Rates, expo, and travel are a very personal thing and I like to feel out the model and develop my own settings. The manual is only meant as a baseline starting point.

[chipset35]

Those two numbers are for either UP/DOWN on the elevator or ailerons OR left/right on the rudder. With more advanced Tx's, you can make the control surface go a different distance in one direction compared to the other if that's what you want. Did you try highlighting another line in the menu? Or did you flip the switch to see if it goes to the other set of numbers. Plane manuals give throws in mm because that's what you measure when you set rates. Tx give it to you in % because each transmitter may give a different throw at any given %. That's why they're different.
From the looks of some of your other threads, it would appear that you are progressing quite quickly in this hobby in terms of the kinds of planes you are acquiring. It might be time to get yourself a more advanced transmitter. That DX6e is very basic and limiting to what you can do.

Thanks, I never even thought about getting an advanced transmitter.
Any recommendations?

[xviper]

Thanks, I never even thought about getting an advanced transmitter.
Any recommendations?

Everyone has their own favorites. My recommendation would be a DX8 G2 - good bang for the buck and very versatile. If money were no object, then take a look at the new IX12. Keep in mind that the more channels you use, the more expensive the receiver becomes. Nothing says you can't stay with a simple 6-ch Rx and use it on a 12-ch TX. It's just a waste of money at this point. DX6 G2 can be found at good prices now but that limits you to future growth if you plan to keep moving along in this hobby. If you plan to stay simple, the DX6 G2 should suffice nicely for a few years. These are Spektrum products. There's also Futaba and FrSky - also major players but remember, as time goes by, all your planes will have the Rx's that work with your radio. If you change to another brand of system, the Rx's may or may not work with a different brand of radio. Of course, most of the BNF planes from Horizon Hobby are Spektrum.

[chipset35]

My issue is that FMS and E-Flite post their recommended dual rates in the aircraft manuals but they are in millimeters" and not a percentage.
So using my FMS GOSHAWK T-45 as an example they have two sets of dual rates both in mm, but my transmitter shows only a percentage.
My FMS B-25 Mitchell manual does not even mention dual rates.
All defaults are at 100% for dual rates, and the Spectrum manual states the higher you go in a positive value the less sensitive the control is for a selected gimball.
More sensitive with lower or negative values

[xviper]

My issue is that FMS and E-Flite post their recommended dual rates in the aircraft manuals but they are in millimeters" and not a percentage.
So using my FMS GOSHAWK T-45 as an example they have two sets of dual rates both in mm, but my transmitter shows only a percentage.
My FMS B-25 Mitchell manual does not even mention dual rates.
All defaults are at 100% for dual rates, and the Spectrum manual states the higher you go in a positive value the less sensitive the control is for a selected gimball.
More sensitive with lower or negative values

This is normal for the way control surface deflection is stated. That's where a ruler comes into play. Every servo and every set up for servo horn hole and control arm hole placement will produce a different throw, even from one model to another of the exact same kind. That's why they give it in mm. % would tell you absolutely nothing, since 80% many give you 15mm throw while in another plane 80% may give you 20mm throw. Transmitters give it to you in % because it's a relative term that relates to a portion of max throw (which is 100%). Some plane manuals will even give it to you in degrees. You gotta use a little common sense in this hobby and this is one area where some deductive reasoning comes in handy.
Dual rates and expo are things which individualize to achieve the desired outcome for control surface deflection and the amount of desensitization of the sticks "NEAR CENTER". Because of this, some manuals will reference it while others don't. This is another area which you must do a little research, reading and trial and error because you don't quite have this concept clear. Expo in Spektrum radios is positive (+) to achieve more "numbness" near center. If you have +20% expo, this means that the first 20% of the stick's travel is less sensitive. After that the stick reverts back to direct output. If you have +50% expo, the first 50% of the stick's travel is less sensitive and the after that, it reverts to direct output. If you go +100% expo (not generally recommended), ALL of the stick's travel will be less sensitive. If you go negative (-) expo, the sticks become much more sensitive for that portion of the travel. Some planes that are flown 3D are set up this way if the pilot wants immediately and quick response when he moves the sticks. Having said this, you may find a different brand or age of transmitter where the positive and negative expo is the opposite. Some pilots don't like expo and don't care if it's even stated. Some pilots like more or less max throws and they set it up the way they want it and don't even look at the manual. When a manual does state this kind of stuff, it all for reference only, just like CG.

[Twowingtj]

All defaults are at 100% for dual rates, and the Spectrum manual states the higher you go in a positive value the less sensitive the control is for a selected gimball.
More sensitive with lower or negative values

The referance in the Spektrum manual that you are mentioning, is talking about Expo. The higher your value, the less sensitive it is around center. The Rate is actually the percentage of servo travel each direction from center. So, the higher the value, the more the servo arm travels.

The reason most aircraft manuals give you a measurement for a control surface movement, is through testing they have determined that movement works best for flight. If they gave a percentage, the actual control surface travel would be radically different depending on what hole the control rod was in for both the servo arm and the horn on the surface itself. In addition, some servos have a greater range of motion than others. So 50% on one could be quite different if you swap to a different brand or model servo. By giving a travel measurement for a given surface, you have a standard value to work with.

[Twowingtj]

xviper must have been typing at the same time. He's given a good detailed explanation.

[boomer108]

Very good explanation Xviper. I use Tactic transmitters and Expo is negative (-) for more sensitivity at center so yes no one transmitter or plane are the same in this hobby.

[chipset35]

Thanks Viper!

[chipset35]

The referance in the Spektrum manual that you are mentioning, is talking about Expo. The higher your value, the less sensitive it is around center. The Rate is actually the percentage of servo travel each direction from center. So, the higher the value, the more the servo arm travels.

The reason most aircraft manuals give you a measurement for a control surface movement, is through testing they have determined that movement works best for flight. If they gave a percentage, the actual control surface travel would be radically different depending on what hole the control rod was in for both the servo arm and the horn on the surface itself. In addition, some servos have a greater range of motion than others. So 50% on one could be quite different if you swap to a different brand or model servo. By giving a travel measurement for a given surface, you have a standard value to work with.

Thank you TwoWing!

[downwindleg]

OK guys, this is what I need help with. I have a Yellow Aircraft P-38 electric that I am setting up with a 12 channel receiver. I've got all the basic control surfaces done including the flaps and retracts. I have attempted a mix with the rudder controlled by the rudder stick and the nose wheel steering linked to AUX5 for nose steering. Switch A controls the retracts. All of this works fine but I'm trying make Switch A also control the off and on for nose steering so that when the gear are retracted there is no nose steering. I started on a Pmix in the mixing screen. Used rudder>Aux5 to link the two and assigned Switch A as the control. Gear continues to steer whether up or down. I need a step by step walkthrough to find the issue with making this work right. xviper gave it a shot but no joy.:Thinking:I would appreciate any knowledgeable help. I'm guessing it's something simple that I have overlooked.:Confused:

[Twowingtj]

It should work for you. Here are the settings I use for this configuration:

RUD>AX5
Rate: 70% 70%
Offset 0%
Trim: Inh
Switch: Switch A
and the "0" switch position is black "1" is white

Everything else is normal.