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Thanks guys! Vipe, that was nice of you to help that guy get his settled. You're a good egg my friend :) -
That is the issue some had, spiral instability. It comes from the wrong sized vertical fin. The plane flys with a lot of dutch roll.Leave a comment:
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I can't speak for everyone who owns a Pro, only the guys I fly with who has or had one. The Pro, being a full house sailplane is too "fiddly" to program all the functions and to actually use them when flying. However, that's the least of it. What most people didn't like about it, was that it had to be flown all the time. They didn't buy a sailplane that needed to be controlled constantly. Unlike sailplanes with just rudder for roll and yaw control, it was much harder to relax when flying the Pro. It couldn't be left alone for periods of time to just float around. Leave the controls alone for too long and it tries to roll on itself. It'll dip and rise and roll unexpectedly. It was simply "too much work". The guys I fly with don't fly sailplanes to have to work. That's what other airplanes are for and they only fly for a few minutes. They don't compete with them. They're not trying to prove anything with them. They don't need all the various control surface modes to do those "special" things. They just want to sit back, relax and watch their sailplanes carve out graceful patterns in the sky without constant input.
I have one particular friend who has a Pro. He got sick of it constantly going wherever it wanted. When it came down, sometimes it crashed, sometimes it didn't but every time, he was mentally drained. His shirt was wet with perspiration from trying so hard to fly it rather than it trying to fly him. I suggested he get a stabilizer/RTH module. He got one but never put it in for 2 years. Finally after the last crash, I installed the module for him and he's flown it several times since and he now loves it. He can sit in a lawn chair and come up and play with the rest of us. He's the only one who still has a Pro who actually flies it on a regular basis. Another fellow also has a Pro and he's had his RTH module sitting in the box for over a year now. He's just too pre-occupied to install it and he doesn't want to bother me to do it for him. He hasn't flown his Pro for over a year (since his last crash). I think a lot of people bought the Pro when their skill level didn't warrant it. It's like buying a fast EDF when you haven't acquired sufficient flying skill to handle one. It's not going to end well and it's not going to be the wonderful experience that you hope it will be.Leave a comment:
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Things are popping around here. I need to see what all the racket is about. Have a good night.Leave a comment:
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It was a half hearted attempt at a "full house" (never heard that in connection with a glider). The Radian Pro needed much more movement in the trailing edge surfaces. The vertical fin was sized wrong for an aileron equipped ship. It was just a poorly executed model. Well, that is my take on it. Of the two the 2 meter Radian or the Radian Pro, after some rework of the foam hinging and rudder I'd be happy with the Pro as a 2 meter ship.
Now what has really surprised me is how much I like the 1.8m Calypso. With a 980kv Park 480 on 4 cells (10X8 @31 amps), half span flaps set up to really crow and the leading edge of the stab raised 3mm it really will soar (ride the wind) and climb straight up. She will also "Hang" with any foamy 2 meter or smaller glider when the ailerons and flaps are dropped 4mm. It is surprises like these that forces me to keep an open mind as to what the possibilities are! But I still question the why and rational of what is popular (hyped).Leave a comment:
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Yep! It's been awhile since I made that vid but as I recall something happened to the video. I remember something happened to the audio which is why I used that music. ;)
Nope! I had the ailerons going the right way but I have to admit I got caught when I used the spoilerons when landing the first time. I did not expect the nose up and it got me. Thankfully it wasnt too rough of a landing although the wings popped out.Leave a comment:
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I think they should have maintained the nomenclature that they used for the Mystique - Mystique (full house) and Mystique RES. That being said, they should have had the Radian Pro and Radian RES. Now, they should have gone with Radian XL RES. Who knows if they'll bring out a Radian XL full house. That would be folly as someone (I think it was KJD) already said the Radian Pro was a bit of a bust in sales, selling only a fraction of what the Radian sold. (Horizon might show me wrong be presenting actual sales figures).Leave a comment:
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Rudder - Elevator - Spoiler =RES
It comes from the old, old days when at first all we had was Rudder control. Then for a lot more money we got 2 channel radios so our gliders got some Elevator control. As the idea that lift really is a function of speed hadn't caught on, we had big slow moving gas bags. To bring them out of a thermal without tearing off the big delicate wings we added Spoilers. So we identify these simple gliders as RES ships.
Later, much later like in the early 80's the Germans (Dr. Richard Eppler) taught us how wings really work and now we have as many as 6 or more servos in the wing.
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Is the end in the video? Also that radio tower looks scary!
That is how wings work, speed equals lift. To slow down we need drag. The best way to get that with the Solius is to reflex the ailerons, like 60° plus. This cause a major change in the pitching moment of the airfoil from a negative (Down) to positive (UP). It also raises the center of drag upward. Both of these action cause the ship to nose up sharply. Far too many novices fear adding down (a lot of down) and as a result stall, snap and crash. I normally mix in 12% to 18% down elevator on spoileron equipped ships. Ships with crow don't need near this much elevator comp as the downward flaps balance out much of the upward going aileron. With Crow I start with 8% to 12% down elevator comp. I hope you weren't trying to land with the aileron acting as flaps (drooping). Attached is how the ailerons look on the Cularis as I'm trying to land.Leave a comment:
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Xviper2, I said: "To be fair I didn't think I'd like the Cularis when she first came out." I thought she would be far too flexible, being foam. And I thought that the wing would have to be too thick for structural reasons. While the wing is too thick to make the Cularis a performance ship she has a great balance of features that make her a good sport ship and an entry level ship into camber changing.
As to the customers being able to make an honest assessment, I find that they are often emotionally involved in the product. It was their money and their thought processes that might have been manipulated by the sales hype. I'm thinking that I'm not a gambler rather an engineer trying to control as many of the variables as possible, I think they call it risk management!
In the case of the Cularis I'll have to admit that based on the engineering assessment of the material (foam) and the thickness of the wing I thought it would be a dud. But I was (and hope "I" am with the Radian XL) open minded to the actual performance of the bird. It is no F3B ship but it is a fine entry level ship that does respond to the camber changing of the trailing edge.
But based on the one Man on Man experience I had and the reports I read The Radian XL is not looking good for what I think one would want in a large foamy, even a RES. Most of the positive comparison are against the smaller Radian 2meter ship. I would hope the larger 2.6m ship would out fly the smaller 2 meter ship. But as you noted the Radian 2meter has bested some high dollar unlimited's in the hands of a good pilot and the right weather conditions.
Lauren, Good job!
It also looks like I may need to revive what I said about the tail boom. It had an integral tube. Some of the reports might be traced to the bonding of the tube to the foam tail boom. I really need to get my hands on one.Leave a comment:
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It's hard to say KJD... The Solius can really cover ground, more than the XL but the XL is much faster than the standard 2 meter Radian and penetrates wind better. I've only had a week with the XL so I am limited with data but I like it so far. Honestly I don't think the climb is all that bad. It looks like about 45% to me. I need to make a good vid for you to see. :) By the way, I looked at the Heron and would love one but I don't think I could set up all those modes on the radio I have (7 channel). I'm not even really sure what all of the modes do. LOL! As for roaming, the guys in the club all agree that the XL has a very good glide ratio but most of us are lawn chair soarers who dabble in gliders. You obviously know quite a bit more than we do. What I found fun was being able to fly out of the lift when it was getting hard to see, fly out of the lift looking for other lift (none) and then flying back over the parking lot and ride the up elevator over and over. Lots of fun. :)
As for spot landing, it's pretty good. Here is my maiden flight (A quickie up and down in heavy wind). Landed it right in front of me. ;)
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Roam for lift? We don't do that. We just fly it around in a group and if we find lift, we find lift. If we don't, we just fall till we get close to ground and power back up to do it all over again. How well does it land? None of us are what you would call "experts" but ALL of us can land this thing and be able to throw a rock at it and hit it (if that's what you want to do). Again, we don't mind walking out a bit to go get it. We don't compete in spot landings. My buddy did a "ground loop" this morning and he went and got it, put another battery in it and up it went again. No apparent damage. As for "consensus", I don't take a few negative experiences as consensus. I used to be heavy into the Honda S2000 and on the forums, all you'd hear are the people who had negative this and that. It didn't mean a thing. The press panned it. That didn't mean a thing. We never heard from the 10's of thousands who had no problems or misgivings about their cars. They stay silent and never post. Negatives always float to the surface because the disgruntled are the first to air their laundry. Doesn't mean a thing. I can point out several short comings of the original Radian but that didn't affect the sales.
You said yourself you didn't like your Cularis at first. Well, you don't like the XL. That's you. Gamble? Isn't everything in this hobby a "gamble"? I call them "experiences". Just like all Vegas venues have different "odds", each one has their followers and each one have those who avoid. You take what odds you are comfortable with. And when you speak of "love fest", doesn't any product have those types of people? Your view of your Cularis kinda resembles that same "love fest". It's your right.
I don't consider it an "attack". I call a spade a spade. I'll tell you when something is bad and when something has merit. However, just because I don't like something doesn't mean I'll call it a "dud". I'm old myself, but when it comes to this hobby, it's a bit of an addiction and a bit of a passion. I'll spend my money to play and try something out that looks interesting. For every one who doesn't like something, there are many times over of those who think it's the best thing since sliced bread. And may I be humble enough to admit that.
I think this is all I'll say about this in this thread. Continuing on would be pointless when minds are that much made up.Leave a comment:
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Much of what you say, point out, can be said about any product. I freely admit I haven't flow one, and would like to. But having flown one man on man I can tell you I'd take the camber changing glider, say my 7 year old Cularis. 9 years is a good product life in todays market, yes the Cularis was that good of a foamy. The Heron is a step in the direction of more efficiency. So Multiplex saw that there was still a huge market for the large foamy glider and has stayed with it. They tried the for simpler Solius and saw that it was a failure compared with the camber changing Cularis. So they went back to the proven lay out of the Cularis with the Heron. I think Horizon also saw the success of the Cularis and wanted in on the large foamy glider market. They recalled their failure with the Radian Pro and decided to stay with what worked for them, a very simple lay out.
As to cost, the Heron kit is actually less expensive to set up than the Radian XL with the need to upgrade the power system (motor, ESC and prop). And you get a much more versatile ship. True one is a kit and the other PNP with RX. As I don't fly spektrum other than my UMX models this is not a benefit.
No, I'm not looking for a replacement for my Kevlar® gas bags of carbon glass slippers. I'm looking for the "Best" large foamy. And by the reports on most sites it is not the Radian XL. Sure there is a lot of hype, much of it generated by Horizon. But after the original sales boost I'm all but confident Horizon will discontinue the Radian XL in its current form (Horizon has rather short product life, it is part of their business plan).
Back to the question; how does the Radian XL roam looking for lift? How well does she land (hit the spot)? How durable is she when she ground loops (drags a wing tip)? How well does she climb? To all these question the consensus is she is failing as she comes out of the box.
I'd love to fly one myself, but I'm not likely to take the gamble (buy the hype) and spend my money and be one of the first to try out this ship. I just don't see the appeal to a heavy RES sport ship. To be fair I didn't think I'd like the Cularis when she first came out. While she is no high performance ship (foam ships just have too thick a wing) she is a great entry level (durable and cheap) point into the full camber changing soarer. The Heron should carry on that tradition (9 plus long years) even at the loss of 200mm.
Guys Gals, this is not an attack on you for your choice of weapon. That is why I stayed out of the love fest that is the Maiden. As I'm sure many think, the fact that I'm asking for a critical critique is an attack. I really want to know what are the benefits of the RXL and as was hinted there really are none. It is aimed at the chaise longue crowd sipping a Mai Tai. To quote Seinfeld "not that there is anything wrong with that!"
And I'm too old to spend my money, that way on Mai Tai's.Last edited by KJD; Jul 5, 2016, 06:26 PM.Leave a comment:
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I, also, would NOT call it a dud. When you consider that all of them have sold out and many people are waiting on back orders and some are even buying a second one, just like many of us bought second and third Radians. No, Eflite did NOT miss the mark. They got to the target audience just as they had hoped and I'll bet they'll continue to sell like hotcakes in spite of some of the XL's posted short-comings. Nay-sayers will revel at the thought of this plane's supposed failures and whatever perceived "misses" but these are mostly people who don't own one and will likely never own one and will constantly look for posted deficiencies so they can giggle in the back room being pleased at how right they were. And the whole time, these things will continue to arrive at flying fields everywhere. We know the Cularis ended. You don't end something that everyone continues to want. Let's see how long the Heron or the Solius goes before they also get discontinued. Shall we see the XL reach that fate? Maybe, but it'll be a long wait.
Remember, the XL is but a mere $50.00 more than the original Radian - not bad at all for what you get. It's a big, beautiful sailplane that just needs a little understanding and maybe just a little tweaking. For under $300.00 bucks, tweaking is not a lot of extra to do. You can keep your Cularis, your Heron and what other big foamie you can name - too expensive, too complicated, too fiddly to fly for most. I'll never own another full house foamie sailplane again. Even the guy at my field with his new Cularis is thinking of the XL. I think Horizon will likely sell all of the next batch as well and in time, the XL will settle into steady sales just like the Radian did.
Just today, my closest flying buddy repeated just how much he loves his stock XL and commented on how nicely it lands, better than any sailplane or plane that he's owned. His brother-in-law has his fixed and is anxious to go out and make it soar once again. Our other friend has already ordered a new, better motor for his and he hasn't even flown it yet. I'm becoming somewhat attached to mine and in time, I may even buy a second one. I may not recommend it to certain types of flyers, but for me and many, many others, it's a keeper and WILL be replaced if anything happens to this one.
If you compare it to stuff you normally use to compete with, sure, look elsewhere. For some, turning something into a competition is the end all, be all. For others, turning it into a competition is the least palatable endeavor there can be. If you look at the sales of the current batch and that of the next batch, I think Horizon are ecstatic at just what a "dud" the XL is. I think they wished the other foam sailplanes they have or have had were the same kind of "dud" as this.Leave a comment:
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Lauren, I'm happy you are happy with the product.
I fear the market place won't be and that Horizon missed an opportunity to make a good follow up to the Radian 2 meter. They made an error with the Radian Pro. (Not near enough throw in the trailing edges.) We are not talking rocket ships, like F5B or hot liners, but most pilots would want a climb angle of 45° to 60° with a good rate of climb. But at $220 for the Radian XL 2.6 meter glider you can get a Heron Kit and equip her for close to that. With the wide chord of the Heron you will have a nice thermaling ship that can also move around the field in search of lift on those bad days. The only real issue with the Cularis and Herons is having somebody in that club that knows how to set up a "6 servo" glider. This is assuming you have a radio that can control camber and crow.
Like I said the effort spent on the bench learning how to set up ones higher end radio pays huge dividends on the field. If you aren't really into soaring, or there isn't any lift, these camber changing ships can make graceful aerobatic ship with the right power.
As you have the Solius how do the two compair covering ground looking for lift. The Solius is only a bit more advanced that the Radian XL as she only has ailerons/spoilerons not a full camber changing wing. To land in a tight spot you can only raise the ailerons (both) to spoil lift. You do need a radio that can do this and mix in a lot of down 8% to 12%Leave a comment:
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Well, I will beg to differ that it is a dud or a big oaf. I like it and am enjoying it immensely so honestly I don't care what other forums say. As for the Solius, yes it is nice and stiff. I have one of those as well. The XL and regular Radian should be stiffer but that is easily remedied. As for climb, it's fast enough for me. I don't need a rocket ship to the top floor. I agree it is not an entry level glider given its weight and size. The 2 meter version is better in that respect. Whether it misses out on competition, I don't care there either as I have no intention of competing. I bought it to be a nice lazy lawn chair glider and it fits into that pigeon hole quite well. :)Leave a comment:
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One of the things that differentiates the Multiplex product is that they offer a real kit version of most of their larger gliders. Not just a servo less offering we see from other distributors. This means that it is often easy to make modification to the model. BNF/PNP type models are often too far along in the assembly process from the factory to afford easy enhancements of factory (project manager’s) deficiencies. All the E-Flite/Park Zone and Flyzone foam gliders suffer from far too flexible a tail boom. With the Multiplex Solius and Heron there is an integral glass or aluminum tube that dramatically stiffens the tail boom. As it is not glued in on the kit version it allows you to easily change it out for a carbon one should you want to loose some mass. The kit version also allows you to choose the proper servo for each application. Like metal gears for the flaps and elevator or the use of HV servos should you want to run 2 cell lipos for the radio. (The RR version does come with high quality servos suitable for their application.)
Reading on the other forums it is rapidly becoming clear that the Radian XL is a dud! Much like the Radian Pro has proven to be. If one really wants a “Large” foam soarer the Heron is looking like the best if not the only one out there, "want a be" gas bags excluded. In the RR configuration all she really needs is a larger prop. The motor and ESC supplied can handle the added load. Both the Kit and RR versions have large wings 2.4m with a wide chord at the root and modern aerodynamics out at the wing tips.
The Radian XL is looking to be the big oaf of a brother to the great 2m Radian. It can’t climb and as a result of its weight is not as durable, or as forgiving to mis-handling on landing like the Radian (2m) is. If this was to be an entry into the RES class of competition flying it looks to have missed the mark. If it was aimed at the entry level pilot it is looking like a poor step sister the the Radian (2 meter). Here is hoping that E-flight will regroup and address the issues in the airframe and equipment. I also hope the Radian (2 meter) stays with us for along time as it really is a nice entry level ship. She is so much better than the "Gentle Lady/Electra (s)" we had in the past.
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