YEAH I fly a electric bot arf and yes its heavy/70oz but the key to turning tight is to crank in some wash-out in the tips.
w/ the d-tube planking its tough to twist in the last 4" or so. you have to re-twist every 10 flights w/ the iron but it improves it greatly.The rxl flys
pretty good for me and I think because of the 1000 sq " wing and slightly undercambered really helps this airplane float like a heavily
ballasted paragon! Most other 3-meter ships in comparison at most only have about 900-1000sq" hence the fat chord of the rxl.
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Luckily, I bought my Mystique a while back when our dollar wasn't nearly so low. Yes, it was an expensive plane by the time I got it outfitted to fly but it has been a wonderful sailplane. I also bought a BoT. It flew "OK" and looked really nice in the air but the RES is still a much better sailplane. The BoT had a very fast glide and higher sink rate compared to the RES and Radians. Although it never did, it seemed like it was always on the verge of tip stall. The BoT has the same wingspan as the Mystique but a much shorter fuselage and I think that's what makes it perform a bit more poorly than the Mys. I sold it last year to a fellow who absolutely loved the looks of it. He took it to his parental home in Rio, Brazil, where it now soars with the big statue of Christ.
The XL, I think, was a great idea as a foamie. It just needed to have been slightly bigger, a bit better planned out, a bit lighter, more powerful and slimmed down some. It looks a bit porky.Leave a comment:
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I bought the Radio XL when it came out. I've got some flights on it but it wasn't what I was hoping for. I had eyeballed the Mystique but the price kept me away, I also really like the look of the Bird of Time.
I had a chance to pick up a Bird Of Time at our clubs auction a few months ago and didn't, I really wish I would have bid as it went for a really good price.Leave a comment:
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It's been hovering around freezing temps around here, with snow everywhere. We've flown in temps as cold as 14F, slight breeze. We've been group flying our Radians lately, so it's not the "bad" weather. We also have a few XLs in our group but none have come out since last fall. They are all waiting for new ESCs (bigger) and pitchier folding props to give them a bit more punch. I think this XL has not turned out to be the sailplane that Horizon and many sailplane enthusiasts had hoped. It had a rough start with that episode involving the warning about the end user doing extra gluing in multiple areas of the plane. The wing assembly and disassembly is "fiddly". Those with regular Radians and even Mystique RES were up in the air while the XL was still on the table getting screwed together. Adding telemetry was not seamless as the stock telemetry interfered with the Lemon. Adding a Return Home module was "problematic" with the stock RX. Once we all got used to the XL, it was very apparent that it was a bit underpowered by comparison to other sailplanes. The extra 0.6 meter of wingspan didn't really look all that much bigger when in the air several hundred feet up and flying with regular Radians. The XL didn't really glide any better than the smaller one and certainly not anywhere near as good as the Mystique RES.
For those who have the Radian and the Mys. RES, the XL became ordinary very quickly and one questioned why it was ever developed. I'd bet that those who have multiple sailplanes, the XL sits at home the most. It's still a nice s.plane to have if that's all you have. They may have tried to replicate the Mys. RES in foam but it didn't quite make it. The Mystique is a hard target to hit.Leave a comment:
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YES SIR roger that/ although I do own my share of cheap motors. but all my e powered sailplanes are mostly e-flite 25s 870 kv swinging 13x7 props on 3-cells.Leave a comment:
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YEAH THEY ARE A BIT PRICY BUT IM PRETTY SURE axis started the whole outrunner gig back in the days when sold by hobby lobby.
on the long shaft v2 they also have # of cells and what the amp-draws are for3-4 cell. I upgraded the s.c. slightly to a 45 amp
because static what-meter says 41 amps w/ the 14x8 suggested prop.Leave a comment:
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Found the motor, and I was in error. The motor is NOT a "can in the can" design, unlike the MVVS motor. I really like all that bearing support for the rotor! The rotor is supported at both ends. This helps a lot with the gyroscopic loads these larger props place on the shaft and rotor.
http://www.espritmodel.com/axi-35-28...radian-xl.aspx
Per the OEM (AXI) there are four bearings set. Per the drawing there are actually 5 bearings, the small gray boxes (see attached). Love the large ring bearing. This adds a lot to the cost but it is worth it for rotor stability!
For more detail on why the ring bearing is so good see this link.
Like that it also has a tail stub for a bearinged rear motor mount support
Normally I like to prop with more pitch (14x9.5, 13x11). But with the weight of the RXL that might not be the best course of action. Have you experimented with other props?
All the best,
Konrad
P.S.
Thanks for the heads up on the new Axi design. I'm actually giving these a good look for my higher valued gliders.Attached FilesLeave a comment:
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TXS Konrad. the axi motor is from Eprit models-part#2826-10 v2 long shaft. They were about 93.00 2 months ago.
its a outrunner motor that they produced just for the rxl as a drop-in replacement. mine swings a 14x8 aeronaut prop on 3 cells.
excellent climb rate now. 15-20 sec. to 900 ft!Leave a comment:
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Welcome,
Now that is the rub, she needs decent air. When I assess a ship I'’m looking at how she performs in less than ideal conditions.
Do you have a link to the Axi motor you mentioned? I assume it is one of those "can in a can" designs.
I agree with you in that she needs a new motor. I too go into a bit more detail here after actually flying a RXL
http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/...?topic=20999.0
If you are still in the market for a large foamy glider I have a detailed build of the 2.4mm Heron here.
Again welcome to Hobby Squawk
All the best
Konrad/KJD/AspirinLeave a comment:
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I LOVE MY RXL-EVEN W/THE AXI LONG SHAFT MOTOR UPGRADE-IT STILL HANGS IN DECENT AIR!Leave a comment:
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Point 1
Agreed. Marketing is hype and has little to do with objective analysis.
Point 2
I see little that is repetitious in the nature of my "rants" about how bad the XL is. I define what I'm looking for in a "good glider" and that would be legs. You and many others think wing loading "hang". We discussed these philosophies a bit. We covered depth perception, the radian pro's limits, the RES definition. To my way of looking we covered a lot of subject matter. And at the same time did a deep down look the soaring ability of the RXL against other foamy gliders in the same size and price class.
No, I don't "Know" what is out there, as I haven't flow a RXL. I really only know about the RXL from the sales hype and that one MAN oN MAN flight
Point 3
I admit that in post #33 it was a bit of a pile on. But this was a rephrasing of the earlier arguments (positions) but with the use of numbers to show that the Radian XL was a dud by your measure wing loading (hang time). And that the other 2.6 meter foamy glider the Cularis actually has a lighter wing loading while having the advantages of being a more complicated glider. I showed this (well tried to) with the man on man flight. I think most RXL customer would be shocked to learn that properly set up (radio program) the Cularis and Heron's will out hang the Radian XL. I try to show this analytically with wing loading and empirically with the man on man flight.
Point 4
We (I don't think it was just I) covered the poor motor mounting in all these (yes even the great Cularis) foamy gliders. We covered the poor tail booms of most foamy gliders ( subsequently validated by the SB). And weight was mentioned but not quantified until post #33.
As to one guy it is a sad fact that Hobby Squawk has a very limited user base. I thanked both you and 'Flygirl' for discussing the issues with me. I for one like to look at things from various angles. So I'm sorry you think this is an agenda or vendetta when each time the conclusion is less than favorable to your position. The Radian Xl has been shown to have limited features (we knew this as she is an RES ship). What honestly surprised me was that as an RES ship she doesn't hang as well as the other 6 servo 2.6 m foamy glider, the Cularis.
You quickly figured out that I was not going to agree that the RadianXL had any ventures over the other foamy gliders just because it was new. I can only assume that you made an honest mistake when you compared the RXL against the 2m Radian and not the other larger foamy gliders. And then discounted my inquiries early on saying that I had made up my mind. Not true, I clearly stated that I (yes even I) have been known to be in error in my first assessment of foamy gliders.
This is how I learn breaking things down and looking at them in detail. I will say that looking at the points put forward the saving grace of the Radian Xl is in the ease of programing. I fear that is more a damnation of the radios than a virtue of the airframe. True the weight has all but killed the notion that the Radian XL will ever be in my fleet. But until I actually fly one and can compare it to my other properly setup and trimmed gliders in the same glass I will keep an open mind. After all I've been proven wrong with the Cularis and Calypso.
You made a poor argument when you said the Cularis had been drop as it was outdated (poor sales). No, Multiplex took the advantage to improve a product (the large foamy glider) with the new models. Like Steve Jobs said "Don't be afraid to make you own product obsolete. If you don't somebody else will!"
Point 5 Sorry to see you go.
Point 6 I'm honored to be the first. BTW I love your avatar!
P.S.
The only real repetitive thing I've noticed in my post history is that I made 3 SB post. The first questioned motion RC about putting a link on their sales page for the RXL to these SB. Second I posted the SB's here in my 2.6m class foamy thread. And third I started a thread to discuss the nature of those SB's as it pertains to customer service and expectations.Last edited by KJD; Jul 7, 2016, 03:29 PM.Leave a comment:
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1. Marketing is ALL sales hype. That's what they do. Why does that surprise you? The rest of the hype is NOT from the company.
2. The repetitious nature of your rants about how bad the XL is, is like beating a dead horse and as such, is "working hard". You're simply pressing your opinion of how bad the XL is and hardly anything to do with what else is out there. Besides, you already know what's out there. Why did you ask? Hidden agenda?
3. Showing the limits is fine, but showing it again and again and again is unbecoming. We all know the deficiencies. You only have to tell it once.
4. It's not that I don't want to see the deficiencies. We all know what they are. I think seeing it repeatedly from one guy is a bit much and it plays out like you have some other agenda.
5. You are right. I don't want to see the repetition anymore. I am unsubscribing as soon as I finish this post.
6. I have yet to put anyone on this forum on the "IGNORE" list. Perhaps there's a first for everything. I'll wait and see in your other threads if you've taken a moment to step back a bit and read the stuff you've posted. Can you see what's repetitive and irritating? That horse has been dead a long while ago.Leave a comment:
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I do care about most of what you don't care about!
This is about me wanting to know what is out there. It is also about me questioning sales Hype. I posted my own thread to keep this kind of reaction to "Just the facts mama" out of the love fest threads! I've never said don't buy the Radian XL. I have said I want to actually fly one for myself.
I'm not working "so hard" to disprove marketing it is surprisingly easy to do by just holding up the facts. In this case the Radian is not a "Hanger" it is a lead sled at 80 oz. and at that weight it will beak up very early in its life cycle. It is you that have a problem with me showing the limits (deficiencies) of the product. I'm not trying to change those who's minds are made up. I'm just bringing to light the facts as they apply to the larger 2.6 meter glider.
I too don't see any foamy as a competition glider. Where did that come from? Yes, I want a glider (modern glider) to perform and perform better that those of old, like the Hobby Shack Spirit 76, Goldberg Electra , etc.
If you don't want to see the deficiencies, and maybe even some strength, of the 2.6meter glider please don't look at this thread.
I too like HH, a lot! I have a shout out to them here, great customer support. But in the case of the SB it is lacking for the intended customer (my opinion).
http://www.hobbysquawk.com/forum/rc-...bies-thumbs-up
In my industry aviation, there are Customer Support Programs for SB even more so for those that have FAA AD's attached (flight worthy issues).
What digging? My experience with the Radian XL is from that MAN on MAN flight. My own analysis, flawed as it might be.
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"TSB's" or Technical Service Bulletins in the car industry does NOT include a "buy back" option. TSBs are for products that "might" have a problem which the customer can, if he/she wishes, return the vehicle for repair or for checking. This is an under $200.00 BNF model airplane. You're dreaming if you think HH is going to do a "buy back" on a cheap toy or reimburse people for their glue and whatever few minutes it takes to implement the "fix".
OK, KJD, not wanting to sound mean or impolite, but this has gone on ad nauseum. It seems to me that you are trying too hard to justify NOT buying this plane. All your calculating and the digging up of posts that have already been posted on this forum and all over the internet (SB) isn't going to create mass rejection of this plane. If you don't want it, don't buy it. There are many who have bought it and almost as many who like it, even love it, in spite of all it's so-called "deficiencies". There is so much more to buying and loving a product beyond calculations, wing loadings, weaknesses (remember the K car?). You can't quantify or qualify aesthetics, desire, curiosity for a new product. Many don't care if it doesn't compare to the original Radian. They don't care that it won't glide as well as some other sailplanes. They don't care that's it's too heavy or too ugly. They don't care if it's under powered. They'll buy it anyway and deal with that later. They don't care if it won't do well in ALES competition. 95% of sailplane owners don't do that. But, they just want it.
HH just markets this product and they make it look as good as they can. That's their job. They didn't create the "hype" any more than any company does for any new product, be it a toy model or a car. It was and continues to be the clientelle that creates and propagates this "hype". Don't blame HH. In the "other" forum, there is currently an ongoing battle between Tundra fanboys and Timber fanboys. I'm not a fanboy of any kind. I like and dislike products from different manufacturers and I don't feel the need to constantly try to convince others how bad something is just so I can feel good about my decision to NOT buy it. In the same token, I don't have to put a product up on a shrine to make myself feel good about having bought it.
The bottom line is, you don't have to work so hard to dissuade others from buying the XL. We know you don't like it. We know you won't buy it. You can feel perfectly at ease in your own conscience and justified to NOT buy it. Are you even in the market for another sailplane? If you are, then just get one of the others you've point out. If you aren't, I'm afraid your point of all this just eludes me. It's OK, I won't buy the RocHobby V-tail thing because it's just not my kind of plane. I don't care that it might be a better product. I've had the Fox Glider. I didn't like it. I thought it was garbage. I gave it away. However, the next guy does like it, but maybe it's only because I gave it to him free. Funny he hardly flies it. My buddy with the Cularis. He dosn't like it nearly as much as we like our XLs. Again, it's OK. Different strokes for different folks. You don't have to try anymore to convince us that the XL is a terrible plane. They will still be purchased and they will still be liked.
I know what will make you feel good. Start a new thread and talk about how great your Cularis is, without further mention of how bad you think the XL is and why people shouldn't buy it. Thank You.Leave a comment:
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The ROC Hobby V-tail, the FMS Fox while they are smaller 2.2 to 2.3 meter are both looking to be much better "gliders" and have good value (twice as many servos) for 10% less street price. I wonder why Horizon isn't marketing these two gliders, too much competition for their own in house brands! This is actually a bit odd as Horizon is the exclusive importer of these brands in North America
And then there is what is becoming my favorite "Large Foamy Glider" after the Cularis, the Multiplex Heron!
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In post #12 and #20 I seem to have nailed it. There is a manufacturing issue with the tail boom of the E-Flite Radian XL. (See attached) It looks like Horizon is falling short of great customer support. The Radian XL is marketed to the PNP/ BNF crowd. They have paid a premium for this simple glider, not to have to "build" it. To have this kind of customer have to rework their glider so as to maintain the warranty is ridiculous! I commend E-Fite for issuing the SB but they have fallen far short of great customer service.
They need to issue a revision to these SB's. There should be a "Buy Back Program" for the Fuselage. To expect the target customer to perform this kind of rework is not realistic. There is far too great a risk that the repair will fail as a result of control binding (glued push rods from the over flow of CA)!
There also needs to be a Customer support program issued (mentioned) Like a $30 coupon for the cost of the glue and the loss of product value from the marred components as a result of the repair (most likely will not look like new). And compensation for the customer' times, for those that do perform the repair.
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Guys & Gals, I freely admit that this is a bit of a pile on! I'm sorry, but this is not aimed at anyone here on the forum, rather a targeted look at marketing hype (AKA Horizon).
I ran the numbers on my antiquated 10 year old design with the numbers from my 7 year old model. Per the sale fliers the Cularis has a wing area of 55dm^2 and my ship has a mass of 1750 grams (852 inches^2 and 61.7 oz) The Radian XL 946.5 inches^2 and a weight of 79.6 oz.
By my maths the Cularis has a wing loading of 10.44 oz/ft^2 with a 3 cell TP2700 mAh
and the Radian XL has a wing loading of 12.10 oz/ft^2 assuming a 3 cell E-flite 3200 mAh
No wonder the out dated Cularis has so much better hang time than the Radian XL. Its wing loading is 4/5 that of the Radian XL! No scale effect as both are close to the same size at 2.6 meters.
Now for power my geriatric Cularis has an E-flite Power 15 driving a Graupner 13x7 at a measured 43 amps (after a 10 second motor/battery burn).
E@CAlC predicts power to the prop as being 340 watts (79% efficiency), and a power to weight of 1.2:1 for a max climb rate of 1326 ft per minute. (Note I am drawing more than the rated power form the motor. But as this is a glider the motor will be used an a Limited Motor Run event {15 second}. Motor temps are well below the critical 80°C (180°f) for the e-flite Power 15)
Per the preceding discussion the main advantage of the Radian XL is in the simplicity of the radio programing.
Now what the numbers don't show is how well the wing recovers from a stall (airfoil performance) Nether OEM is advertising what airfoil they are using. So some hands on flying is in order. I will say that coring out a thermal it looked like the Cularis took a bit longer for the air to reattach. (This could be because I had the flaps down for more camber). By the numbers I should have, with the Cularis, beat the Radian XL I was flying man on man by a much wider margin.
It is looking like, if you want an upgrade from the great old 2 meter Radian, its big brother the RXL really isn't it. Yes, the RXL benefits from the added mass, but this added mass is also its weak point.
The 2 year old Multiplex Heron looks to be the king apparent in the larger foamy gliders. True the Heron kit will take a few evenings to build. But it is looking like it is well worth the effort compared to just opening up the box of the Radian XL, if the antiquated Cularis is any guide.
To show that the performance isn't a fluke my other Cularis has a Hyperian GS3014-16 driving a Graupner 13.5x8 prop, climbs just as well even with the loss of 2 amps. FYI; If modeling the Multiplex gliders with the OEM spinner add 19mm to the prop diameter.
I'd like to thank xviper2 and Flygirl for helping me analyze the true Radian XL from the hype.
P.S.
Multiplex usually measures wing area by the FAI method (wing and stab). So the wing loading really is closer to 11 oz/ft^2. This still gives the old Cularis a 10% or so advantage in wing loading.Last edited by KJD; Jul 5, 2016, 04:23 PM.Leave a comment:
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Thanks, Lauren. These guys are my "comrades in arms". We share the same passion and we help each other out where we can and sometimes, friendship is enough reward. We give each other used parts all the time. One fellow is a woodworker and he's provided me with countless custom made plane firewalls, support structures and other plane parts. I've installed 4 of these electronic modules for others. I have them in 5 of my own planes.Leave a comment:
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