Official Freewing Twin 80mm F-14D Tomcat Thread

[crxmanpat]

Thanks! I'm putting it away for now until an event scheduled 3 weeks from now up in St George, UT. There will be lots of cameras there so I should have some more pics to share soon. This time I plan to put the tanks and ordnance on as well (didn't do that for either flight on Saturday).

[evensen007]

Finally, after 4 years of talking about it, and crashing the first one before I could do it, it's finally done!

Maiden report of my Freewing F-14 repainted in VF-1 Wolfpack colors circa 1975. This is actually my second Freewing F-14, so I already knew how she handled. The only major difference between my first one and this one is I put a pair of the T-33 fans/inrunners in it after removing the stock system, and added Chris Wolfe's (Thercgeek.com) twin burners for 36mm inrunners.

On the first flight my landing gear somehow got reversed in the radio even after I had tested it out on the ground the night before, so the first flight was with gear down the whole time. Was a little worried about it so I landed early without getting it properly trimmed. It also made me rush the landing and it bounced and scraped a wingtip up a little. No other damage though.

The second flight from which these pics came (thanks greenseaships!) I went up with wyldkrd flying his E-Flite F-4 and we did a little dogfighting. The gear went up properly and I managed to swing the wings for one pass. I was about to make another low pass for the camera with the wings back when my timer went off, so I threw the wings out and rushed the landing again. Only a small bounce that time.

Next time I fly I'll put the ordnance and tanks on. The inrunners work really well on this bird. She gets off the ground much faster than the old stock power system, and definitely has more thrust and speed. I also added a few scale details that I 3D printed, namely some A-model nozzles and nose gear plate (thanks ChrisK!), pitot tube, NACA ducts for the ESCs and a fuel dump vent. I replaced the cheese grater venting on the belly with some thin styrene and added the NACA ducts for cooling.

Here's a bunch of pics, I should have some vid of the maiden later.

Pat, that is STUNNING! Congrats on the hard work; it really paid off! That maiden video was nerve shattering; I can only imagine how it felt with the controls in your own hands! hah

[xviper]

Mine is thankfully consistent between modes, but one solution would be seperate flight modes for wings out vs. swept which would allow for unique trim settings.

I haven't looked into just how to do that but I guess I'll cross that bridge when and if it comes up.

[crxmanpat]

If it's trimmed with wings swept, does it go out of trim when you put the wings back out?

On my first one I set up two separate trims; wings out and wings swept. On this second one I don't have any trim issues in either configuration.

[mshagg]

Any weight penalty will be worth it, what a beautiful bit of kit.

If it's trimmed with wings swept, does it go out of trim when you put the wings back out?

Mine is thankfully consistent between modes, but one solution would be seperate flight modes for wings out vs. swept which would allow for unique trim settings.

I did have a slight roll during the sweep itself, which I chalked up to one wing moving quicker/earlier. Revisited the linkages and shimming on the bench and ended up putting a thicker shim underneath one of the wings which seems to have addressed the issue. I wonder if it was perhaps dragging on the top of the fuse - I did have to do a bit of sanding there during the initial build to get the clearance right.

[Colorc]

getting started with wing platter mod. its very well machined. this is a little heavier (80 grams more) than stock but im looking for longevity of the landing gear in grass landing and the occasional plop onto the runway. hopefully ready to fly in a couple weeks

[xviper]

I've never flown it with a gyro and feel it doesn't need one. The biggest thing to watch for is trim when the wings are back. On my first one she wanted to roll right with the wings back, but after trimming the wings back position, it flew fine. I swept the wings on my second flight yesterday and it was rock solid.

If it's trimmed with wings swept, does it go out of trim when you put the wings back out?

[mshagg]

Very nice! Good to see an uneventful maiden.
Picking up on your comment about holding the nose up, does this mean it's better to have higher throws on ELE with wings swept back? What about the roll? "RC Geek" indicated that when he first swept the wings back, the roll sensitivity was very alarming so he dialed down the AIL throw for swept wing. Combining what you experienced and what Geek experienced, should the ELE rate stay high and the AIL rate go low? Did you find that it rolled very easily in swept wing?

Yes i think that's spot on - keep elevator at 100% all of the time, it's not hugely pitch sensitive and even with fairly low expo it rotates nice and smoothly around the pitch axis.

The roll rate is interesting. I started with RCGeek's throws and actually found the roll rate with wings swept a little lacking - but understand Chris is a scale nut and probably has it set up exactly like the scale bird lol. He dials the roll rate down a LOT with the wings swept. His settings are very safe, just be aware that if you go for an aileron roll with the wings swept it's going to be a slow roll. And those few seconds where the wings are sweeping back, but the rates have already gone to low, you'll want to be straight and level because the plane will hardly budge. Great starting point but i've been working my way up from there.

FWIW i think his whole setup is a perfect starting point - you'll be flying nice and high on your maidens and you can make some decisions about rates from there.

re: gyro, they say big birds fly better and that holds true for the tomcat. My first flight was, of course, gyro off - and it was rock solid even with a bit of a breeze around. My main interest in stabilisation was due to reports of some rocking with the wings swept. I havent flown it with gyro off and wings swept, but do have it configured to dial back on the gains a little for the swept mode.

[crxmanpat]

I've never flown it with a gyro and feel it doesn't need one. The biggest thing to watch for is trim when the wings are back. On my first one she wanted to roll right with the wings back, but after trimming the wings back position, it flew fine. I swept the wings on my second flight yesterday and it was rock solid.

[xviper]

Just remember that the control board automatically does mixing for the elevators and ailerons so that the elevators act as both elevators and tailerons simultaneously. In order to program flight modes that disable the ailerons with wings swept you may need to take the elevators and ailerons off the board and run them direct to the RX.

Yes, that's the way I understand it. I plan to keep the board for the tailerons and plug the wing ailerons directly to AUX3 and AUX4 and do a mix for ailerons (up only and only when wings are out) and for full span flaps.
Did you feel the need for gyro stabilization on the tailerons? Or did the plane feel pretty solid in various flight conditions? Of course, I'll fly it first without.

[crxmanpat]

Just remember that the control board automatically does mixing for the elevators and ailerons so that the elevators act as both elevators and tailerons simultaneously. In order to program flight modes that disable the ailerons with wings swept you may need to take the elevators and ailerons off the board and run them direct to the RX.

[xviper]

and like a drill bit when swept. Either turn down ailerons even more with wings swept, or disable ailerons in swept mode and have tailerons only.

Thanks, Pat. You mirror Geeks findings on this. I'm disabling the ailerons in swept mode and when wings are out, each wing aileron only go up slightly. I'm also going with full span flaps.
I've just completed the control surface centering for now. I had to do it with stuff going directly to the RX in stages as the control board was defective. I needed to know that everything actually worked when the board was taken out of the equation. I'm waiting for a new one to arrive next week before I can finalize all the programming.

[crxmanpat]

I found that the elevators need the high rates recommended in the book for the entire flight. The low rates recommended don't seem to give enough throw, especially when inverted. I have my ailerons at the low rates recommended. It rolls fine with the wings out, and like a drill bit when swept. Either turn down ailerons even more with wings swept, or disable ailerons in swept mode and have tailerons only.

[xviper]

Wings swept is interesting, takes a lot of elevator to hold is nose up in turns but my goodness it's a sight to behold. The transition from low to high rates is also an interesting challenge to work with as the wings sweep back.

Very nice! Good to see an uneventful maiden.
Picking up on your comment about holding the nose up, does this mean it's better to have higher throws on ELE with wings swept back? What about the roll? "RC Geek" indicated that when he first swept the wings back, the roll sensitivity was very alarming so he dialed down the AIL throw for swept wing. Combining what you experienced and what Geek experienced, should the ELE rate stay high and the AIL rate go low? Did you find that it rolled very easily in swept wing?

[crxmanpat]

Congrats on the maiden and subsequent flights! There's just something about seeing this bird making a diving turn back to the field with the wings swept back. Pure awesomeness!

[crxmanpat]

Congrats on the maiden and subsequent flights! There's just something about seeing this bird making a diving turn back to the field with the wings swept back. Pure awesomeness!

[mshagg]

Finally got a chance to fly this bird during the week. Wednesday afternoon out for a maiden + two, then back to the field all day Friday to really try and get a handle on it.

For the reputation is carries it's a fairly docile jet - certainly with the wings extended anyway. Wings swept is interesting, takes a lot of elevator to hold is nose up in turns but my goodness it's a sight to behold. The transition from low to high rates is also an interesting challenge to work with as the wings sweep back. Gyro performed beautifully and the functional air speed sensor mounted on the nose cone is neat - cruises around at ~120km/hr IAS.

Took a little to get the flap/elevator mix settled, had way too much dialled in to begin with which saw her floating in at too low a sink rate. Im still carrying too much speed in on final now but getting slower with each approach - I'd rather come in a little hot than go the other way lol.

All in all it's a fantastic jet to fly and has become an instant favourite. A little video from the day, the scene was to beautiful to not try and capture it.

[crxmanpat]

crxmanpat , Pat, Great Repaint and Congrats on the your re-first Carrier Qual. It's all good. Best, LB

Thanks LB!

[crxmanpat]

Pat, I'm about 1 or 2 weeks before I maiden mine. Your F-14 appeared to fly pretty good. Are you using the stock recommended setup for rates? You said your gear was reversed. Wouldn't they have worked if you had flipped the switch to the other position? It's good to know the gear was able to take a bit of a thumping on the landing. Did you do any kind of reinforcements at all?

Recommended high rates on elevator, low rates on aileron, book rates on flaps. Yes, had I realized the gear was just reversed, I would have flipped the switch the other way, but I was flipping the switch too fast to see they were just reversed. The only reinforcement I did was the 3D printed landing gear plate as seen in this pic. I think that saved my nose gear on the first landing.

[xviper]

Pat, I'm about 1 or 2 weeks before I maiden mine. Your F-14 appeared to fly pretty good. Are you using the stock recommended setup for rates? You said your gear was reversed. Wouldn't they have worked if you had flipped the switch to the other position? It's good to know the gear was able to take a bit of a thumping on the landing. Did you do any kind of reinforcements at all?