Freewing P-51 Mustang

[Grossman56]

RE: Freewing P-51 Mustang

Hey guys, I was curious to see how much the sound system adds to the weight of the P51, but in the specs, it lists 91.7 oz for both versions!  Obviously a type-oh, but it would be interesting to know.
Another thing of note is that the motor is a 4250-KV580 which is what you can upgrade the FMS P51s to, which I'm seriously thinking of doing to BBD.  The Freewing motor is $44.90 and the FMS is $38.00.  Big difference in price, I wonder what justifies that?  IMO, I think if the Freewing motor gave out, I'd replace it with the FMS version.   What's your opinion ?

[OV10]

RE: Freewing P-51 Mustang

Hey G-man,
I have the FW Iron Ass and the FMS Marie. Can't give ya an answer to your first question on weight difference of the FW sound vs no-sound(which I have), I do have a MrRCSound in mine with a TT-25 in the aft grill and the circuit card in the forward grill area.
The reason I am responding though is about your power plant concern. The props on both are the same(factory - no mods) which is 14x8 4 blade. As you noted the FW has a 580kV motor and the FMS has a 540kV. Now here is the deal, even though the FMS is turning that prop 40kV slower it is still a tad faster than the FW and that is because the FMS weighs 9 ounces less. I can also get 8 min from a 4000mAh 4S on the FMS versus 6 min on the FW. Personally I think the FW is a little bloated and would perform as a bloated hog without the kV's being bumped up, but because of that you pay for it in flight time due to chewing up the trons harder. To answer you last question as to what brand to use when your FW motor craps out the logical choice is the "cheaper" FMS 580kV motor, just my opinion as you asked.
Just a note of interest about that FMS 580kV, it is used primarily on the FMS T-28 and Zero because they both are turning a 13x9 3 blade and on my Trojan(no Zero yet) I get 8 minutes from the 4S 4000mAh battery. As prop diameters and pitch numbers increase so do the power requirements and it is not a linear rise thus the importance of needing a watt meter as a basic staple of the electric flyers toolbox. Am sure that WintrSol will concur with this comment because from what I have seen from his contributions he is the resident power expert on this forum in my opinion.
With best regards,

[Grossman56]

RE: Freewing P-51 Mustang

Hey Charlie, thanks for the info!
I figured that I would change out the 540 with a 580 in the FMS P51s when the time comes.  I have noticed that the FMS P51 is faster even with the smaller motor, which as you say, makes sense because of the weight.
Now, when I change the 540 with a 580 in the FMS birds, how does that affect the ESC, is it still ok with the stock ESC?
I've been thinking of upgrading to an 85 Amp ESC, probably the safer way to go if I wanted to start playing around with the prop.
Got all winter to ponder it..

Grossman56

[OV10]

RE: Freewing P-51 Mustang

Gman,
It is gonna put a bigger load on the ESC when you bump the kV up but by how much I don't know because my Marie is stock. Don't forget, you will also knock down you flight time by about 20-25%.
I shall repeat, do yourself a HUGE favor and invest in a watt meter and then you unequivocally will know exactly what is happening in the system and whether you need to upgrade the ESC or not.
This is the one I use and it is rock solid - http://www.motionrc.com/gt-power-130a-watt-meter-and-power-analyzer/
Good luck with the power upgrades

[Lon]

RE: Freewing P-51 Mustang

Hey G-man,
I have the FW Iron Ass and the FMS Marie. Can't give ya an answer to your first question on weight difference of the FW sound vs no-sound(which I have), I do have a MrRCSound in mine with a TT-25 in the aft grill and the circuit card in the forward grill area.
The reason I am responding though is about your power plant concern. The props on both are the same(factory - no mods) which is 14x8 4 blade. As you noted the FW has a 580kV motor and the FMS has a 540kV. Now here is the deal, even though the FMS is turning that prop 40kV slower it is still a tad faster than the FW and that is because the FMS weighs 9 ounces less. I can also get 8 min from a 4000mAh 4S on the FMS versus 6 min on the FW. Personally I think the FW is a little bloated and would perform as a bloated hog without the kV's being bumped up, but because of that you pay for it in flight time due to chewing up the trons harder. To answer you last question as to what brand to use when your FW motor craps out the logical choice is the "cheaper" FMS 580kV motor, just my opinion as you asked.
Just a note of interest about that FMS 580kV, it is used primarily on the FMS T-28 and Zero because they both are turning a 13x9 3 blade and on my Trojan(no Zero yet) I get 8 minutes from the 4S 4000mAh battery. As prop diameters and pitch numbers increase so do the power requirements and it is not a linear rise thus the importance of needing a watt meter as a basic staple of the electric flyers toolbox. Am sure that WintrSol will concur with this comment because from what I have seen from his contributions he is the resident power expert on this forum in my opinion.
With best regards,

what's you cell voltage after 8min? Mine are almost always around 3.9 after 6.5min flight with the 3600 4s. Same with when I run 5s 3300.

[OV10]

RE: Freewing P-51 Mustang

Lon,
3.7 to 3.75 with average throttle management of 60-70%. All my planes times are set to this throttle management criteria.

[Lon]

RE: Freewing P-51 Mustang

Lon,
3.7 to 3.75 with average throttle management of 60-70%. All my planes times are set to this throttle management criteria.

Sounds like we fly about the same throttle. I know sometimes when I'm landing...thinking to myself, gee, I didn't do many loops or high speed passes. Land, and my telemetry is giving me voice readouts pretty high. I taxi around and take off right away. Fly for another minute and a half or so.  Land, and I'm at the 3.75 area. I'm running the prop mod too.

One time, no wind, sun going down fast. Trying to get as many flights in before dark. I rushed and didn't do a cell check before putting battery in...yep, put in a battery I already used. . . lucky to make a landing after I realized it...ruined that battery. that's when I made up my mind to buy the telemetry(about same cost as 1 battery) Now I get the voice callout of battery voltage when flying.

[rc-eflyer]

RE: Freewing P-51 Mustang

Here's a flight from Sunday.  Still all stock at the moment and the first time I flew it with the long range tanks installed.  They definitely slow her down, could tell with out a doubt! We were flying a Buder Park which is a county park here open to anyone with AMA and a permit from the club that is based here. Really strange that no one else was flying most of the day.  My fly'n buddy Bob took the video and helped me out with the trim abit. The video is on his YouTube site.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6wD7oYIJaU

Steve

PS The video looked much better until YouTube "improved" it. Grrrrr

[Lon]

RE: Freewing P-51 Mustang

Here's a flight from Sunday.  Still all stock at the moment and the first time I flew it with the long range tanks installed.  They definitely slow her down, could tell with out a doubt! We were flying a Buder Park which is a county park here open to anyone with AMA and a permit from the club that is based here. Really strange that no one else was flying most of the day.  My fly'n buddy Bob took the video and helped me out with the trim abit. The video is on his YouTube site.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6wD7oYIJaU

Steve

PS The video looked much better until YouTube "improved" it. Grrrrr

Great flight.  I too can tell the difference when flying with the long range tanks.

[Grossman56]

RE: Freewing P-51 Mustang

Hey guys, now that's interesting.  I've only flown with the tanks on and yet, both the FMS P51's I fly with the tanks off.  Duh, maybe I'll try it without them!
I put some very thin zip ties under the prop blades so I'll be interested in seeing how that works as well.
Tanks for the tip (pun intended)
Hey RC, I watched your maiden flight and I see you had the same problem I've been having with the gear doors, they seem to be pretty fragile, did you just replace them or figure our a better way to attach them?

Grossman56

[rc-eflyer]

RE: Freewing P-51 Mustang

Hey guys, now that's interesting.  I've only flown with the tanks on and yet, both the FMS P51's I fly with the tanks off.  Duh, maybe I'll try it without them!
I put some very thin zip ties under the prop blades so I'll be interested in seeing how that works as well.
Tanks for the tip (pun intended)
Hey RC, I watched your maiden flight and I see you had the same problem I've been having with the gear doors, they seem to be pretty fragile, did you just replace them or figure our a better way to attach them?

Grossman56

I did eventually buy 2 sets of replacements but they were out of stock back when I broke them. I had some carbon fiber rods that were the same size as the little plastic pins that broke off. What I did was probably over engineered but here goes. Since the pins are raised somewhat from the door I first glued on a piece of flat carbon fibre as a spacer. Then on top of that I glued on a small brass tube that I had which happened to have an ID that was slightly larger than the carbon rod. Now I could just put the door on with the pin that didn't break and slide the rod thru the tube and into the hole in the wing. then just a spot of glue to keep it from slipping back out...........See told ya it was over engineered........but it worked great :rolleyes:

Steve
[hr]

Here's a flight from Sunday.  Still all stock at the moment and the first time I flew it with the long range tanks installed.  They definitely slow her down, could tell with out a doubt! We were flying a Buder Park which is a county park here open to anyone with AMA and a permit from the club that is based here. Really strange that no one else was flying most of the day.  My fly'n buddy Bob took the video and helped me out with the trim abit. The video is on his YouTube site.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6wD7oYIJaU

Steve

PS The video looked much better until YouTube "improved" it. Grrrrr

Great flight.  I too can tell the difference when flying with the long range tanks.

Thanks Lon, not the best landing there . I'm ordering the 85A ESC and next time I fly it will be without tanks and using the zip tie modded prop.

Steve

[Grossman56]

RE: Freewing P-51 Mustang

Hey, sounds good to me!
Nothing like a good McGyvering to make a guy feel like he's accomplished something!!

Grossman56

[rc-eflyer]

RE: Freewing P-51 Mustang

Hey, sounds good to me!
Nothing like a good McGyvering to make a guy feel like he's accomplished something!!

Grossman56

HaHa....probably more Rube Goldberg in my case ;) .

Steve

[Lon]

RE: Freewing P-51 Mustang

Hey guys, now that's interesting.  I've only flown with the tanks on and yet, both the FMS P51's I fly with the tanks off.  Duh, maybe I'll try it without them!
I put some very thin zip ties under the prop blades so I'll be interested in seeing how that works as well.
Tanks for the tip (pun intended)
Hey RC, I watched your maiden flight and I see you had the same problem I've been having with the gear doors, they seem to be pretty fragile, did you just replace them or figure our a better way to attach them?

Grossman56

I did eventually buy 2 sets of replacements but they were out of stock back when I broke them.  I had some carbon fiber rods that were the same size as the little plastic pins that broke off.  What I did was probably over engineered but here goes. Since the pins are raised somewhat from the door I first glued on a piece of flat carbon fibre as a spacer. Then on top of that I glued on a small brass tube that I had which happened to have an ID that was slightly larger than the carbon rod. Now I could just put the door on with the pin that didn't break and slide the rod thru the tube and into the hole in the wing. then just a spot of glue to keep it from slipping back out...........See told ya it was over engineered........but it worked great :rolleyes:

Steve

[hr]

Here's a flight from Sunday.  Still all stock at the moment and the first time I flew it with the long range tanks installed.  They definitely slow her down, could tell with out a doubt! We were flying a Buder Park which is a county park here open to anyone with AMA and a permit from the club that is based here. Really strange that no one else was flying most of the day.  My fly'n buddy Bob took the video and helped me out with the trim abit. The video is on his YouTube site.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6wD7oYIJaU

Steve

PS The video looked much better until YouTube "improved" it. Grrrrr

Great flight.  I too can tell the difference when flying with the long range tanks.

Thanks Lon, not the best landing there .  I'm ordering the 85A ESC and next time I fly it will be without tanks and using the zip tie modded prop.

Steve

Steve,
You'll really be happy with a 85a ESC and dropping a 5s in her.  When I go out and fly, I take 4s & 5s. Alternate back and forth most the time.  And since I did the prop mod, except for one time, I've stayed with the mod.

[Grossman56]

RE: Freewing P-51 Mustang

Hey guys, I've been kicking around the idea of how to repair the gear door pins as they seem to be fragile and I may have come up with something, so don't throw out your old doors just yet. 
A buddy of mine suggested trying Kevlar as the base material for an alternate pin.  I'm thinking of putting a long, thin strip of it at the top of the door, then having it heat/bent ninety degrees up from the door, then putting a self tapping screw into the material to sub as the pin that slides in the hole in the wing.  That way, you can advance the screw into the hole as far or as little as you want.  This is still in the idea phase and I hadn't thought of Kevlar, but it should work and be easy to glue to the gear door as its plastic anyway. 
I'll keep you posted.

Grossman56

[Lon]

RE: Freewing P-51 Mustang

Except for the temp and humidity today(90's) Was a great day for flying here in NE Iowa.  Seven flights logged today with the Iron Ass.  Here's one video.
For anyone who has seen previous flight videos of mine from this Dubuque field. You will notice the difference of the fields all grown up with corn now.
Enjoy.

NOTE: I was a little aggressive on the throttle during takeoff....kind of close to that 10' tall corn when I veered left . . . .

https://youtu.be/Kp3xbNRtf6o

[Lon]

RE: Freewing P-51 Mustang

Managed to get 6 flights in with the IronAss today. 3 this afternoon right before sunset. Winds was a mild 5-7mph.

I had the plane do something i've never experienced before with her. On my final approach i'm set on my angle of descent, and i notice the tail is wagging like a happy to see you dog!! No issues as far as bringing her in for a nice landing.

I check her out. Find nothing loose. Everything normal.  What the heck!??

[Grossman56]

RE: Freewing P-51 Mustang

Strange Lon, I'd check the servo out though.  Had one do the same, replaced it and problem solved.

Grossman56

[Lon]

RE: Freewing P-51 Mustang

Strange Lon, I'd check the servo out though.  Had one do the same, replaced it and problem solved.

Grossman56

Gman,

Six flights with her today....no issues, flew great. Unless it does it again, i'll just write it off as a strange flight phenomenon.

[Grossman56]

RE: Freewing P-51 Mustang

Hey Lon,

Recently got Freewing P-51 from MRC  was wondering if you have ever used a Gyro in it.  I have considered it but not decided yet.  Not sure if there is room to mount it near the GC.  Any suggestion appreciated.

Wingman

Hey Wingman, have one in My FW P 51.

An A3L.  Works great!

Grossman56