FMS F3A Olympus 1400mm (55") Wingspan - PNP

[jobinseattle]

I recently bought the FMS F3A Olympus 1400mm (55") Wingspan pattern plane. I wanted to get some thoughts on it from others who have purchased it. I have not flown it yet as I want our club trainer to fly it first. Even though the plane is only 55 inch wingspan, the plane is huge.

[Konrad]

RE: FMS F3A Olympus 1400mm (55") Wingspan - PNP

You made a great purchase!

While I don't own one I've flown a few Olympus F3A models. I will tell you that they fly a bit better than the 3 E-Flite Splendors which I own. The Olympus is the competition for the Splendor in the market place. Much of this can be traced the that canalyzer (small wing on the fuselage). The Canalyzer helps with the knife edge flight as it directs more air over the rudder. This minimizes the amount or rudder needed in knife edge flight which can help minimize the rudder coupling with the elevator (pull to the canopy of gear in knife edge flight).
http://www.maasa.co.za/documents/Team_Canada_FAI_F3A_2013_Technical_Report.pdf

I have some concerns about you wanting the club instructor to fly her first. This is not a trainer. While she is a sweat heart to fly you should have the knowledge and reflexes to trim her out before flying this type of model. I seem to recall that you can fly the E-flight Pulse and Sig 4 star. I assume that snaps and inverted flight are old hat. And that you know how to use the rudder when applying the elevator to maintain heading in the up and down lines. If you can put the Pulsar and the 4 Star where you want them, then you are more than competent to fly the Olympus by yourself.

Now unlike the sport ships these pattern ships will cut through the wind much easier as they have less drag than the sport planes with their cigar box fuselages and Hershey bar wings you might be use to flying.

This low drag means that you can't (shouldn't) dive for the runway when landing. These pattern ship will prove that the elevator controls speed and the throttle controls the sink rate on landing.

Also the narrow wing tip can snap a bit sooner than you are use to. This really isn't a problem with the Olympus as she has a light wing loading and thick airfoils. I'm just saying the triple taper wing flies a bit different (actually better) than the constant chord wings you might be use to.

I like to use 6 cell batteries that are about 500 grams. What are you using for batteries?

All the best,
Konrad

[jobinseattle]

RE: FMS F3A Olympus 1400mm (55") Wingspan - PNP

I guess it is a little intimidating looking and plus I have never flown a plane that uses a 6S battery. I am using 6S 4500 battery.

[Konrad]

RE: FMS F3A Olympus 1400mm (55") Wingspan - PNP

She is a sweat heart of a plane, really nothing to be intimidated with. There is nothing magical about 6 cells other than the larger planes are a bit easier to see.

4500 mAh sound like a rather large battery. Can she still balance at the rear ward mark? I seem to recall using 3000 to 3300 mAh cells. I found no need to carry the extra weight of a large battery. I only need enough to finish the pattern. 3300 mAh seem to be enough and it keeps the weight down. I also change out the battery after every flight.

I balance my ship at the forward point recommended in the manual for the first trim flight. I almost always end up with the CofG placed aft of the rearward point recommended in the manual. Moving around the CofG is part of flight trimming. I hate nose heavy ships! It takes me about 10 flights to get a model trimmed to the point I'm happy with the way she flies in all attitudes.

Here is a trim chart I like to use
http://www.wtp.net/DBEST/trimchrt.html

[Konrad]

RE: FMS F3A Olympus 1400mm (55") Wingspan - PNP

I don't mean to be a "buzz kill". But I've been looking at some of your posted videos over the last few months. This and the fact that you state you want the instructors help has me rethinking my position about your skill level.

I'm sure you can fly the model. That is get it in the air and land it. I just think that you might not want to risk such a nice performance model while learning some of the more advanced landing techniques and the use of the rudder. The Olympus is not a trainer by any stretch of the imagination.

I think most of the models I've seen in your videos have more than adequate performance to help you reach a higher level of competency with the sticks.

Again I think you can fly the Olympus but I think it might be best to put it aside for a while. I'll say that your flight instructor should be able to make a more accurate assessment than I can for here (the keyboard). Ask him point blank about landing a high performance ship and the subtleties of the rudder.

Please take this in the spirit it was given. I'm just trying to help you get the most out of this fine hobby with the least pain.

All the best,
Konrad.

[jobinseattle]

RE: FMS F3A Olympus 1400mm (55") Wingspan - PNP

I appreciate it. As this is a nice model and I have never flown a pattern plane I would just like to see it flown before I give it a go. I don't mind letting it sit for awhile.

I have a Escapade MX (http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXDPND&P=FR&gclid=CMC41Ouv_8gCFQMEaQod 1oANZA) that I have yet to fly. I may just fly that along with the others for awhile.

Again thanks so much for your help.

[Konrad]

RE: FMS F3A Olympus 1400mm (55") Wingspan - PNP

The Escapade MX still looks to me to be a sport plane. Blunt front end boxy-ish fuselage and straight or very minor tapered wings. Also I read it has a semi symmetrical airfoil. These do not add up to a performance type ship in my book. Nice sport planes but not performance ships.

I want to hear you tell me you can land comfortably in a 5 to 10 mph 90° crosswind. It is rare that you over shoot the runway. You can keep the aircraft on heading on the up and down lines. OR put another way that you can put the model were you want. Not just follow along and keep her out of trouble. These are two very different levels of control. To be honest only about 20% of the flyers at the field can honestly say that they have this level of control over the models they fly.

It pains me to say that I'm often in the 80% camp with the models I fly.

All the best,
Konrad

[jobinseattle]

RE: FMS F3A Olympus 1400mm (55") Wingspan - PNP

I have been doing this less than 2 years now. I have come a long way and have learned a lot. I would not say I am where I want to be. But I am having fun. My desire is to get into pattern flying and I will progress towards that.

[Konrad]

RE: FMS F3A Olympus 1400mm (55") Wingspan - PNP

Great goal! I'm a firm believer that competition improves the breed (you and me).

Pattern flying is not about the plane, but rather the placement of the plane in the sky.

You already have a few planes that are close to neutrally stable. These can be used to help you gain mastery over the rudder.

Unlike basic trainers most of your sport ships will go where you point them. Well, not like a trainer that will fight you in an effort to keep you from crashing. This property of trainers makes them the most difficult model for me to fly.

I look forward to see some pattern work like consecutive rolls, slow rolls on heading, cuban eights and the like in your videos.

All the best,
Konrad

[OV10]

RE: FMS F3A Olympus 1400mm (55") Wingspan - PNP

Hello jobinseattle,
Have watched over this thread in the background with some concern of your expressed desires about flying advanced airframes and thought that I would now reach out to you also regarding your flying skill set and desires.
I am aware that Konrad is a flight instructor at his club and I am also an instructor at my club. Just wanted to give you a second opinion and reaffirm that Konrad's analysis of your abilities and advise on you moving forward in the sport is spot on. We instructors like to see others succeed in the sport by doing so without the pain and expense of trying to move faster than your skills. Boring holes in the sky is fun but at the end of the day if you can not put your aircraft on the ground where you want it on a consistent basis without issues then you just need to be patient and continue to practice until the skill set is capable of the higher demanding abilities required of advanced airframes.
Have patience and start working on routines that improve the skill set and before you know it you will have the confidence to maiden that Olympus yourself(not the club instructor) but most importantly, have fun while getting there.
With best regards,      

[jobinseattle]

RE: FMS F3A Olympus 1400mm (55") Wingspan - PNP

I really appreciate the advice from both of you. I really do like to get honest opinions from people who are experienced and been in the hobby for awhile. I do agree with being patient and letting my skill set develop.

I was at the field this morning and was pretty comfortable flying my sport cub, beaver, and p-51, and trimming them in flight. Something I had not felt comfortable doing until I learned I could reverse the trim settings on my DX6.

As a leftie this really helped me a lot.

[Konrad]

RE: FMS F3A Olympus 1400mm (55") Wingspan - PNP

Reverse the trim setting? Might this be known as cross trims, allowing the hand not holding the stick offset move the trim lever on the opposite gimble assembly. Most advanced radios have an auto trim function. I first saw this in the Ace MicroPro 8000 in the late 80's. 25 years later and I'm surprised all computer radios don't offer this feature.

[jobinseattle]

RE: FMS F3A Olympus 1400mm (55") Wingspan - PNP

Yes, cross trim. The other day I was thinking I wished the aileron/elevator trim was on the left side of my transmitter instead of the right as being left handed I found it was somewhat difficult for me to trim in flight. So I ask the question on rcgroups and I got a reply that there is an option on the DX6 known as cross trim.

Did not think that was even an option so I was very surprised to learn you could do that.

[Konrad]

RE: FMS F3A Olympus 1400mm (55") Wingspan - PNP

RCGroups, please lets keep this site clean. I've had some serious issues with the ethics of the management of RCGroups.

Glad you learned about the function. Have you read the manual thoroughly on your own.
I find it odd how often the old is new again. We flew cross trims way back in the 70's with the grand old Ace Silver Seven and Pro line radios.
As a south paw have you tried a single stick radio or a radio set up on mode one.

As you are wanting to make the commitment to being a performance pilot you owe it to yourself to try out a few setups before you become to ingrained (stuck in a habit) in any one method

I mention the Auto trim feature in that many folks don't know it exists and has existed for 25 plus years. Basically is slews the servo in the direction you are holding the stick forcing you to bring the stick closer and closer to center. Once the stick is centered the servo stops moving and you by releasing the auto trim button store this servo offset (trim) in model memory.
You can get a more detailed explanation here. See page 6
http://www.vintagercfiles.com/Files/ACE/Micropro%208000/Ace%20Micropro8000%20operation%20manual.pdf

There is no reason that all computer radios don't have this function. It is just that the market place doesn't insist on it. Mainly because folks don't know it is possible. When writing Spektum tell them you want this feature in all their radios.

All the best,
Konrad

[jobinseattle]

RE: FMS F3A Olympus 1400mm (55") Wingspan - PNP

I have read the manual however when I first got the radio which I got last December. I must admit much of it was greek as it has been my only radio I use. I do have a Flash 7 radio because my buddy sold all of his stuff and I bought everything but I don't use it. I pretty much can set up the radio to serve my needs like setup new planes, DR, Expo, Mixing, Flaps occasionally, assign functions to switches, etc..

When I have questions (which is all the time) I ask in forums and the members in our club.

[Konrad]

RE: FMS F3A Olympus 1400mm (55") Wingspan - PNP

Forums are great when they are run by ethical management. MotionRC has been great in letting all opinions of their products be heard. MotionRC's forum is truly aimed at advancing the cause of RC flight not their sales.

You can't go wrong asking for help here on Hobbysquawk.

Well done MotionRC.

All the best,
Konrad

[Colorado_Scott]

RE: FMS F3A Olympus 1400mm (55") Wingspan - PNP

Hey Konrad... you mention, "I seem to recall using 3000 to 3300 mAh cells. I found no need to carry the extra weight of a large battery. I only need enough to finish the pattern. 3300 mAh seem to be enough " - what Pattern are you flying? How many minutes in the air? How many MAH did you take from the battery ? (how many amps to charge the battery back to full charge after your flight?)

I have extensive Pattern Competition experience and am just getting back into the hobby after a move from CA to CO 5 years ago. As CO has 'less air" than CA, I plan to fly this plane with a 16x10E and a 5000mah, 25C pack. This will allow future 2M planes to use a 10S configuration (which I normally fly) with the same batteries. I thought I'd try this plane (Olympus) for a bit until my 2M plane arrives. I am making some modifications to the plane, which are not necessary, but I may find helpful.

You can see some of the changes I am making at:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/electric-pattern-aircraft-385/11597971-fms-f3a-olympus-4.html

I would love to use a 3300mah battery but I don't think it will fly a longer pattern - but you have experience here and I don't. I have not taken Amp / Watt measurements yet but I will be doing this soon.

Thanks for any info
Scott

[Konrad]

RE: FMS F3A Olympus 1400mm (55") Wingspan - PNP

As much as I like these foam pattern ships they are not 2M ships, but they make great sport/pattern models!

Yep I too have had issues with pushed back pins. I think the housing often have too much flash keeping the retention feature of the housing from grabbing the pins.

To be clear I fly Splendors (4). Two in Denver (one now) and two in San Francisco. I’m not a competitive Pattern flier. While I might not be able to fly like I want, I at least know what I’m aiming for. Here is my review of the Splendor. Having flown both the Splendor and Olympus I like the Olympus air frame better
http://rctruth.com/index.php?topic=1858.0

I think the motors are close to the same size between the Olympus and the Splendor 42-58 with the Olympus having a rated Kv of 550 and the Splendor Kv 525. I wish sellers would give real electrical data (such as Io and R) for motors they sell, can size tells me next to nothing!
The stock prop for the Splendor is an APC 14x7 while the Olympus has a 15x8 prop (I think).

In the thin air of Denver my Splendors are using APC 14x8.5 props. This seems to load the motor close to what I got at sea level. And it increases the pitch speed allowing the wing to produce much the same lift at the same angle of attack.

I read that I’m taking out 70+% of the energy out of the cells using the Align battery checker(RCE-MT9) after I fly an AMA Master routine.
Static current draw is about 48-50 amps at sea level.

I will say that the Splendor is a real dog on 5 cells with the 14inch APC props.

I charge my batteries at close to 5C (15 amp) with this charger
http://www.thunderpowerrc.com/Products/Chargers_2/TP1430C

In Denver I think I’m using these batteries, Zippy compact 3300 with EC5 connectors
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=21406

Sorry I don’t have more data for the Denver area. I sport fly in Denver to keep from going insane while visiting family!

All the best,
Konrad

[Colorado_Scott]

RE: FMS F3A Olympus 1400mm (55") Wingspan - PNP

Thanks for the info Konrad. So you fly in Denver! Arvada or Longmont?? Both fields are about 20 miles from my house in Westminster and I have recently visited both sites a few times. I've met up with others I know from my flying days, Joe, Dan and Bruce. Perhaps you know them? They fly at the Arvada / Longmont fields.

You have me rethinking the batteries now - if I can fly the 2016 Masters pattern with a 6S 3300 battery, that would be great. I will still take current / RPM readings with the 5S, 5000's, but the 6S will give increase RPM - IF it will allow the Masters / FAI patterns to be flown.

Back in 2005 I flew a Venus II that I converted to electric - as an entry pattern plane - getting use to electric as I flew gas powered planes before this. I took similar care, as I am with the Olympic

[Colorado_Scott]

RE: FMS F3A Olympus 1400mm (55") Wingspan - PNP

Thanks for the info Konrad. So you fly in Denver sometimes? Arvada or Longmont / other?? Both fields are about 20 miles from my house in Westminster and I have recently visited both sites a few times. I've met up with others I know from my flying days, Joe, Dan and Bruce. Perhaps you know them? They fly at the Arvada / Longmont fields.

You have me rethinking the batteries now - if I can fly the 2016 Masters pattern with a 6S 3300 battery, that would be great. I have some 6S 2300 and one 3300 TP that I use with a TREX Heli - and I'll try these with the plane to get readings. I will still take current / RPM readings with the 5S, 5000's, but the 6S will give increase RPM - IF it will allow the Masters / FAI patterns to be flown.

Back in 2005 I flew a Venus II that I converted to electric - as an entry pattern plane - getting use to electric as I flew gas powered planes before this. I took similar care, as I am with the Olympic to build it right and get things set up well. That little plane won the Masters class that year - then I moved to 2 meter planes and into FAI

Here's the little Venus.. I hope the Olympic does as well!