Problem with Aero Scout SAFE/AS3X mode

[AHS]

Hello all,
New guy here with a problem concerning the Aero Scout.

The problem is the Scout will not come completely out of SAFE/AS3X, which ever the case. The plane has only been flown a few times because of this. The reason? It can be landed. It just wants to climb. The only way to get it back is to power it down. When I try turning off the SAFE mode, there's a slight improvement in the control surface movement, but for sure not enough for a roll a flip, or to bring it down.. Now I'm pretty sure that there's something not set correctly because there was one flight where everything was working properly. Since then the plane seems "stuck" in SAFE mode. I have tried re-binding...once removing the bind plug before binding the controller, and once with the bind plug installed. Nothing changed. I've checked the function of all switches. Here is what I feel is strange. When I use a servo tester to check the travel of the servos, the servos only travel half of the allowed travel. When the plane is powered up, and is self checking, the servos travel 100%.
I'm new to all of this, and to say that I'm really confused is an understatement. As I said, there's some change when SAFE/AS3X is turned off, but the system still remains in a guarded state.

Thanks in advance for any ideas, or information.

[xviper]

First, let's clarify this "SAFE" and "AS3X" thing. These are two different things. SAFE is when the limiter is active and the plane will NOT bank or pitch beyond a certain angle. When you have the plane powered up on the bench, you can tell if SAFE is ON if you pick up the plane and tilt it. The control surfaces will go in the opposite direction to try and counter that movement. While tilted the control surfaces will stay there. Next, to check for AS3X, the throttle must be applied to at least 1/3 and back to off. Now tilt the plane quickly and you should see the control surfaces react in the opposite direction but go back to neutral even if you keep it tilted. When bound with SAFE select and an appropriate switch chosen, you either have SAFE or AS3X. I don't know what you mean by "guarded state". Also, when you say "self checking", are you referring the the control surfaces doing their "twitch cycle"? If you have SAFE select chosen, it should twitch two cycles.
As for setting up the plane, you first need to make sure that you manually neutralize ALL control surfaces with the plane powered up and level, with ONLY AS3X (and NOT in SAFE). Your very first flight should be your trimming flight. Take it up high and do the trimming with the tabs on the TX. Remember that after you click the tabs, you must fly it hands off for 3 seconds. You may to do this several times for each control surface before the plane will fly straight and level without input. Then and only then will SAFE work as it should.
In order that you can go from AS3X to SAFE and back, you must assign a switch. This can only be done after you've bound it for SAFE select. This much be done with all rates at 100%, no expo, with the TX at least 10 feet from the plane. Once it's bound with SAFE select, then you can choose a switch. Read your manual to confirm what I'm about to say. Hold the TX sticks DOWN and to the INSIDE while you flip the switch you choose for SAFE/AS3X five times. Best to do all of this with the prop removed.

[AHS]

Thank you very much for the advice.
I have preformed the tasks that you have suggested...several times. I'm not up on the lingo, but by "guarded" I mean the plane will not allow itself to be rolled or flipped while in flight. The control surfaces do counter any movement when tilting the plane, and there's the problem. I can not make it not counter the movements. The "gear" switch has be assigned as the on/off switch for the SAFE. When that switch is turned off, the control surfaces move a slight bit more, but still counter any tilting of the plane.. As I said earlier, the control surfaces move more with SAFE off, but still not enough that I can bring the plane down while under power, or preform rolls and such.. Unless I'm mistaken, which I most likely am...the control surfaces should not respond when the plane is tilted if the plane is not in SAFE mode. Am I mistaken about this? I ask because other E-Flite planes that I own do not respond when tilted if the SAFE is turned off. Tilting a plane is the only way that I know of testing if the SAFE is on and working or not. This plane always counters any movement, no matter what I try.

Thanks again.

[xviper]

When in SAFE, the plane will NOT go inverted. Roll and pitch are limited to whatever degrees is set in the RX. Please re-read what I said about SAFE and AS3X. In either mode, the control surfaces WILL respond to counter moving the plane. The difference ................................. In SAFE, when you move the plane, the control surfaces will respond and stay there if kept tilted. In AS3X, the control surfaces will respond but only momentarily and go back to neutral. Momentary response will continue as long as move the plane. You must differentiate what you mean by "always" counters. Does it counter and stay there or does it counter and go back to neutral when you stop moving the plane after tilting it? One is SAFE. The other is AS3X. SAFE will work as soon as you power the plane. AS3X will only activate after you blip the throttle to at least 1/3.
PS. AS3X reacts slightly differently from one plane to another. It all depends on what gains and priorities were used in the programming. Some planes have very obvious AS3X response, while others may have very subtle response.
If you are having problems with the plane in this regard, you need to take it to your nearby flying club and ask for help from someone who knows about this system. Or take it to a hobby shop that sells this type of plane.

[AHS]

Okay. I guess that I'll need to have a closer look at what the control surfaces are doing. Whether they remain in a fixed position, or if they return. I'm still confused about all planes with SAFE/AS3X countering the movement of the plane. As an example, I have a Valiant with AS3X, not sure about it having SAFE, but, if the SAFE/AS3X switch is turned off, there's no movement of the control surfaces when the plane is tilted. I'm missing something, but I'll figure it out hopefully.

Thanks again.

PS, A hobby shop would be nice, but the nearest one is about 2500 miles away. Take care.

[xviper]

OK, you seem to be confused about this "SAFE/AS3X switch being OFF". It all depends on how you bind the RX. If you bind it with SAFE select, then you have 2 modes on the switch --- one position is with SAFE and the other position is with AS3X. Both of these causes movement in the control surfaces when the plane is moved. One is a 3-axis gyro (AS3X) and the other is a 6-axis gyro (SAFE).
Now, if you bind it in a way as to NOT have SAFE select where you bind it with the bind plug the whole time, then you have 2 different modes on the switch. One position is AS3X and the other position is with NO gyro at all. With AS3X active, gyro makes the control surfaces counter any movement of the plane. When there is NO gyro, when you move the plane, there is no counter movement because there is NO gyro working.
Bound one way, you either have SAFE or AS3X. You CANNOT turn them off. Bound the other way, you can turn off AS3X or have it on. In that mode, you have NO SAFE. Until you understand this, you aren't looking for the correct things.

[AHS]

Okay. I was under the impression that the plane would only be able to flip, or roll, when the SAFE and the AS3X were completely turned off. I have bound the plane both ways...several times. Only once did the plane act as if the SAFE and the AS6X were off, and was able to roll etc.. It has never done so since, not even on the next flight after a battery change. I'm thinking that the module has an issue, so I'm going to try a known to be good module from another plane and see if the problem continues. I've never encountered this problem on any of the other E-Flight planes in the hanger. At this point I'll be happy if I can just get it to fly straight up and then straight back down nose first into the ground. Done. Next plane.

Thanks again.

[SanExup]

Is this an RTF or I should just ask, what transmitter do you have?

[AHS]

This is a BNF model. The transmitter is a DX-6. Far from the best, but not exactly the worst transmitter.

[xviper]

This is a BNF model. The transmitter is a DX-6. Far from the best, but not exactly the worst transmitter.

OK, this is the first time that you told us that your plane is a BNF and you are using a DX6. This makes a difference. Did you do all the stuff for the TX setup as per page 5 of the manual regarding the Channel Assign? This makes your switch B (3-position) your flight mode switch (beginner, intermediate, experienced). Switch I becomes your "panic mode". Beginner should be SAFE. Intermediate should be AS3X. Experienced should be no gyro help (ie, no SAFE, no AS3X). There's also a section dealing with AS3X trouble shooting later in the manual.

[SanExup]

Everything that xviper said.

When doing the switch assign process, holding the sticks down and inward, you must wait for the initial process to complete. Beeping, surfaces moving, then hold the sticks and quickly move switch b. Sometimes you have to do it multiple times for it to work. Meaning unplug and replug, initialization, and then sticks and switch. Let us know if it works!

The Dx6 is not a bad transmitter.

[Klegg]

Aeroscout BNF has 3 settings....safe, intermediate and AS3X.

It should map to a 3 way toggle, BUT you may have to assign the switch. Are you using the spektrum Aeroscout preset? Or did you make you own model?

[xviper]

Aeroscout BNF has 3 settings....safe, intermediate and AS3X.

It should map to a 3 way toggle, BUT you may have to assign the switch. Are you using the spektrum Aeroscout preset? Or did you make you own model?

You need to read page 5 of the BNF Aeroscout manual with regards to the DX6. It doesn't quite work the way you said.

[Klegg]

You need to read page 5 of the BNF Aeroscout manual with regards to the DX6. It doesn't quite work the way you said.

I should have clarified which Tx(s) I use. Mine came with a Tx (dxe). Safe/intermediate/ and advanced all map to toggle B. I also have an NX8, and set safe to the same toggle.

I am using the preset aeroscout model in my NX. I belive it is the same file as used for the DX...it has the DC extension on it.

I have noticed a slight wing drop to the left on mine.

[fnp1964]

I bought a Aero Scout as my first plane. I took it out to the air field and noticed it climbed up. It climbed so high I barely saw it. I finally cut the power and called it a loss. I thought that plane sucked for newbies. I got an apprentice and it flies great .

[xviper]

I think it has to do with the way it's set up. For "newbies", this can be a confusing and daunting task. The plane needs to be set up properly with all the control surfaces aligned and the RX needs to know what "level" is and allowed time to initialize level. There's one at my field and the first day, it almost ended up a disaster but he managed to get back down safely and with some suggestions as to what might needed to be done, he took it home and messed with it. The next time he brought it out, it flew perfectly as it should and he was absolutely delighted with it. He flew the heck out of it for weeks on end before he graduated up to more challenging planes. (Reading the manual and following the instructions is quite important when it comes to these AS3X and Safe Select equipped planes.)
There is also a cure for a plane going "up and up and going far away" .............................. Don't let it keep going up and far away. Shut the throttle down and fly it the best you can. It'll come down.

[fnp1964]

You are so right. I got carried away and my mind went blank. Days later I thought of things I should of done, I kind of miss that plane. Is it true you must trim the plane every time you fly or just once?

[xviper]

You are so right. I got carried away and my mind went blank. Days later I thought of things I should of done, I kind of miss that plane. Is it true you must trim the plane every time you fly or just once?

You usually do the most trimming of a plane on its maiden flight. However, some planes go out of trim after being stored for a few days or a few weeks and if you don't use the exactly same weight of battery in the exact same place, then you need to trim it again. Trimming is something that you check for every flight as early in the flight as you can manage it. A lot of things can change the trim. Each time you fly a plane, as soon as you have it up and flying straight into the wind, you check for its "hands off" stability. Then trim as needed.
Real aircraft need to be trimmed every flight and even several times during a flight as the weight balance can change due to different loads and as the fuel gets used up. It's not a static thing.
If I were starting out again, I'd go for the Aero Scout. Many of my friends started with the Apprentice, so that's always a good option as well. I prefer the Scout because it has gigantic wheels, trike gear and it has a wide performance envelope, one that you can grow with. The apprentice is a trainer to begin with and generally stays that way forever. The Scout can become a more aerobatic and performance plane as the pilot gets good at it.

[rmachin]

I see an issue for those of us who start with realflight. I am flying teh Aeroscout, and the SAFE operation is beginner, intermediate, and AS3X only, on my dummy controller's 3-way switch. Works perfectly. So from teh above it sounds like this is a bit of a hybrid combination? The intermediate is a bit like the original poster says, it's SAFE but a bit less of it! I'm debating now when I get a new RX for teh real world, whether I will pay the $50 extra for SAFE - thinking it may always be useful for maiden flights in particular, and difficult planes that may cause landing panic.

[xviper]

I'm not bashing RealFlight as it's a good place for many people to get started with learning "muscle memory" and leaving "dumb thumbs" behind to a certain extent. However, the "issue" I see with flight sims compared to a real plane is that there are so many things that a new pilot must do when dealing with a real model plane that the flight sim does for you in the background that you can't even conceive of. In this sense, I don't find RealFlight to be that "real". When starting with a "real" model, there are things like the set up and knowing how to build the model and properly aligning all the control surfaces. The Sim does this for you. Then comes the initial flight and doing the trimming and knowing how, when and how much trimming to do. The Sim does a lot of that for you.
Insofar as SAFE being a "bit less of it", I'm not so sure you can think of it that way. SAFE is SAFE, either you have it or you don't. The only thing that changes with SAFE is the degree of roll banking allowed and the degree of pitch allowed. You still CANNOT do a loop or a full roll when SAFE is engaged. No matter what the degree of bank/pitch limit is set to, when you let go of the sticks, the plane will still fly straight and level. "Beginner" is SAFE with less angle limits, AS3X engaged. "Intermediate" is still SAFE but with more angle limits, AS3X engaged. "Experienced" is with SAFE turned OFF but it still has AS3X stability. "Panic mode" is the pushing and holding the BIND button, releasing the sticks to get the plane to right itself and fly straight. If the Sim is anything like the real model, in Beginner and Intermediate modes, if you let go of the sticks, the plane will right itself and fly straight without pushing the button. Only in Experienced mode does you need the panic button if you get "out of sorts". Letting go of the sticks will only have the plane go in the last attitude flown. IE, if the plane is going DOWN and upside down, it will continue to descend upside down until you push the button.
Since this thread is over a year old and the original AeroScout is now discontinued, I have to go back and read about it to be sure of what I'm saying. There is a new AeroScout that can be Pre-ordered now and I didn't read about what has changed.
If you buy an AeroScout, you can only buy a BNF or RTF. You will not have a choice of whether or not you get a RX with SAFE. It comes with it. Many of Eflite's "beginner" planes come that way. Only when you get out of the "beginner" planes, can you buy one that is PNP when you can choose your own receiver. If you buy a SAFE receiver, you will have to learn how to program it. It's always better and easier for a "beginner" to get a plane that already has it IF that's what you'd like to end up with for those "first" planes. No matter which way you decide to go, just know that the Sim does not show you everything you need to know and do when you get a real model. You will also discover very quickly that the "real" model doesn't feel like what the Sim model felt like.