IR Battle Systems?...... Heng Long 6.0 vs Tamiya

[Rubicon99]

I recently set-up three tanks in an equal side triangle of about 5 ft, and used every combo of every tank shooting IR at each other to test their firing lines, and although all the tanks had good range, they weren't exactly shooting parallel to the barrel, ( I was testing for battlefield aim points)...and I can live with that, or believe fix it with a short tube on the IR emitter to focus the light beam, as I've done before, but I was most surprised when I was shuffling the tanks around and just testing two of them, and placed the other behind one of the shooters, and everytime I took a shot at the opposing tank, the one 'behind' the shooter kept getting "hit"...it was dinner time so I quit testing, but tomorrow I can't wait to find out how i'm shooting a tank parked behind me!

That can happen. It called “splash back” and is usually caused by the IR beam bouncing off light colored surfaces. The tank that fires is “mostly” immune (time delay at firing that does not accept incoming hits) but others close around can be hit. Sunshades on the IR receiver tend to reduce this effect but it happens even to the Tamiya battle systems.

There is also a shotgun effect when the IR bulb/emitter is not recessed far enough inside the tank or bulb “tube”, HL bulbs are for the most part not recessed far enough. The recommendations is 8-9mm of bulb depth. Can’t tell you how many times I have been hit by my own team because I was inside their IR beams cone of fire even though I was off to one side and nowhere near their point of aim.

There are simple ways to “kinda narrow” the beam. Mostly adding longer bulb tubes or narrower tubes. I have seen some amazingly accurate tanks with these mods, but there drawbacks too. These tanks are much slower to engage their targets and unless they are shooting from long range 75-100 feet away are usually easy pray. That’s why the 8-9mm recommendation is so popular. It generally provides a good balance of speed, accuracy and reduced beam cone.

IR beam back splash/shotgunning/cone are things that one learns to work around and with. Once you know it’s there and expect it.

[fastphil]

I recently set-up three tanks in an equal side triangle of about 5 ft, and used every combo of every tank shooting IR at each other to test their firing lines, and although all the tanks had good range, they weren't exactly shooting parallel to the barrel, ( I was testing for battlefield aim points)...and I can live with that, or believe fix it with a short tube on the IR emitter to focus the light beam, as I've done before, but I was most surprised when I was shuffling the tanks around and just testing two of them, and placed the other behind one of the shooters, and everytime I took a shot at the opposing tank, the one 'behind' the shooter kept getting "hit"...it was dinner time so I quit testing, but tomorrow I can't wait to find out how i'm shooting a tank parked behind me!

[Rubicon99]

LegoDEI Welcome to Hobby Squawk! I for one am interested in something like this. There are likely several ways to improve the overall system, from the transmission side to the reception side, and anywhere in between. Some approaches will be less expensive than others, some may require more modification than others, but at the end of the day, I'd rather we have a sea of options for tankers to select from to suit their preferences.

Hopefully there's 'enough interest to move this forward!

@ Alpha, I have used LegoDEIs “Tamiya” compatible receivers and if he can get them working half as good with the HL system it will be a game changer.

I am hoping to test one of the LegoDEIs HL receivers out as soon as possible.

[Rubicon99]

I have stumbled upon a solution for the receiver sensitivity issue described here. ~half a year ago I designed an aftermarket IR receiver that is tested to be reliable at distances of >70 feet even under mid-day sun, retailing for only ~30 dollars targeted towards Clark/Tamiya/IBU control boards since genuine Tamiya apples retail for such a ridiculous price. It has been extensively tested at the LA venue and adopted by many of our tankers here. Recently I was able to test it with a HL6.0 system and have found that it works to a comparable level of reliability. The only downside is that it currently requires a minor wiring swap for HL boards due to the different pin ordering on the IR receiver socket; available currently in partnership with DAK RC: https://dakrctank.com/shop/ir-battle-receiver-apple/. If there's sufficient interest I can provide a version to be directly compatible (plug and play, no modifications needed) with the HL6.0 board within the next month or so.

This is GREAT to hear, I know myself and others have been hoping for an improved IR receiver that actually works past 10ft if direct sunlight.

I have personally seen and used your Tamiya compatible IR receivers and they work GREAT! I especially like the ones with the super brilliant blue LED hit indicators.

I am hoping to get my hands on one of your Heng Long compatibly receivers as soon as possible for testing and evaluation.

[Alpha]

LegoDEI Welcome to Hobby Squawk! I for one am interested in something like this. There are likely several ways to improve the overall system, from the transmission side to the reception side, and anywhere in between. Some approaches will be less expensive than others, some may require more modification than others, but at the end of the day, I'd rather we have a sea of options for tankers to select from to suit their preferences.

Hopefully there's 'enough interest to move this forward!

[LegoDEI]

6.) The new IR receivers the 6.0 system uses are much better then prior ones offered by Heng Long, but have shown they are not reliable when used in direct sunlight (noon hours) much past 10ft. Since most clubs battle outdoors it can become too big of an advantage for the 6.0 tank as it will not register hits. To extend their usefulness adding a homemade "sunshade" to the receiver helps and bring the reliability up, but still nowhere near that of the Tamiya IR receiver. We ask those using the 6.0 tanks with "sunshades" that when battling at certain times of the day that they do not engage others further then they themselves can receive a hit which is about 35 feet. .

I have stumbled upon a solution for the receiver sensitivity issue described here. ~half a year ago I designed an aftermarket IR receiver that is tested to be reliable at distances of >70 feet even under mid-day sun, retailing for only ~30 dollars targeted towards Clark/Tamiya/IBU control boards since genuine Tamiya apples retail for such a ridiculous price. It has been extensively tested at the LA venue and adopted by many of our tankers here. Recently I was able to test it with a HL6.0 system and have found that it works to a comparable level of reliability. The only downside is that it currently requires a minor wiring swap for HL boards due to the different pin ordering on the IR receiver socket; available currently in partnership with DAK RC: https://dakrctank.com/shop/ir-battle-receiver-apple/. If there's sufficient interest I can provide a version to be directly compatible (plug and play, no modifications needed) with the HL6.0 board within the next month or so.

[Rudinater]

Alpha that is a great idea, however, even many of us advanced modelers dont have a 3d printer. I cant do cad so i couldnt justifty a printer to the quality i would demand. How about also uploading it to shapeways for those that dont have a printer.

For a 3D Printer my I suggest a Creality Ender 3 Pro cost is $210 - 260depending on where you get it. Note if you compare the development of 3D prints to normal printers. 3D printers are at about the 9 pin dot matrix development level of printing. They can do really good stuff, but you have to understand them to get to that point.

Cad programs. I can't draw a circle. There are web site out there where people share their SLT files for anyone. www.thingiverse.com is one great example.

Tinkercad is a online free cad program. www.tinkercad.com Free, with lots of online help.

[Rubicon99]

INFO Bump. For those that are starting to battle their IR tanks.

[JDMac761stBP]

I switched around the Heng Long IR receivers on my tanks the other day. Some receivers perform better than others. Did the recommendations for clearing the signal pathways. I'm disappointed with the inconsistencies.

[RichJohnson]

Nice mod. Just dont charge Lipos in the tank. Too man times people have burned down their shop or the room the tank was in when the battery ran off and caught fire.
I have modded nearly every tank I have to get the switch somewhere accessible from the top and open the tank up for battery access rather than turning it over that risks breaking all the stowage and detail off.

[Alpha]

Elbee I find the 1/16 scale very conducive to 3DP. Not too large where prints take forever, and not too small where detail suffers. The TK6 MFCBs in these new generation tanks drive so well that there's not too much to tinker with them internally, which frees up time to draft 3DPs for the externals and other small functional aids.

I drew up a combo plate for one of the hatches that incorporates an LED voltage indicator, a momentary actuator button, and a latching power switch. I'm printing a redesigned plate that incorporates an on-board charge port onto this area as well. It's much more convenient to open the hatch, tap the momentary button to illuminate the voltage indicator, then tap the latching button to power on the tank. This layout eliminates the need to invert this 11 pound tank every time I want to swap the battery or flip the power switch.





I will have to relocate the TK6's IR port into the commander's cuppola, which again, with 3DP, requires less than 5 minutes of design and ~20 minutes of printing.

I'll post these files in the Tank 3DP thread when I'm finished.

[Elbee]

I have come to wonder how I ever made it without my 3D printer before I got it. :woozy_face: Excellent work as usual Alpha!

RCJD, Acknowledged and Agreed. If, and I I mean it this time, I bought a tank, I'm thinkin' design and print would be all I'd be doin'. These tanks are so cool, but you'd have to have a place to play with others, I'd think. I will be watching these threads with great interest. Best, LB

[RCjetdude]

I have come to wonder how I ever made it without my 3D printer before I got it. :woozy_face: Excellent work as usual Alpha!

[Rubicon99]

Usually Squawkers just upload on the forum, then people without printers will upload or send to Shapeways somehow. I'm not familiar with the exact mechanism to upload directly to Shapeways. Perhaps someone can put it on Thingiverse and just backlink here to Hobby Squawk. There are several guys here who have become very proficient this 3DP. Elbee, Dirty Dee, Radar-Guy, and others.

https://www.hobbysquawk.com/forum/rc...thread/page167

I threw this together tonight. Testing over the weekend. It's intended to house a reflector inside the cover, and uses angled slits to reduce overhead glare with minimal reception loss. I'll have to paint it black first, though!

Like RichJohnson I don't have a 3D printer so trying one out first hand is out of the question for the time being. Though based on the design and my experience making sunshades, I suspect it will work to greatly improve the IR receivers performance in direct sunlight.

[Pilot.Vrf201]

That looks awesome Alpha!
Great work!

Bring on the tanks!

[Alpha]

Usually Squawkers just upload on the forum, then people without printers will upload or send to Shapeways somehow. I'm not familiar with the exact mechanism to upload directly to Shapeways. Perhaps someone can put it on Thingiverse and just backlink here to Hobby Squawk. There are several guys here who have become very proficient this 3DP. Elbee, Dirty Dee, Radar-Guy, and others.

https://www.hobbysquawk.com/forum/rc-airplanes/military-jets/186270-official-freewing-f-a-18c-hornet-90mm-edf-thread/page167

I threw this together tonight. Testing over the weekend. It's intended to house a reflector inside the cover, and uses angled slits to reduce overhead glare with minimal reception loss. I'll have to paint it black first, though!

[RichJohnson]

Alpha that is a great idea, however, even many of us advanced modelers dont have a 3d printer. I cant do cad so i couldnt justifty a printer to the quality i would demand. How about also uploading it to shapeways for those that dont have a printer.

[Alpha]

I'll draw up a 3DPUP file for a sun shield that fits around Heng Long's TK6 receiver apple, then post it in the 3D File Exchange thread tonight. Users can 3D print it themselves. In the future I can look into mass producing it if/as the demand grows.

[Rubicon99]

I understand the one on the right but what comprises the one on the left?

The left one is comprised of thinner yet larger diameter “fins”. It was taken from a Tamiya IR receiver that was not being used. The left one is slightly more effective then the right one, the cost to make another copy is quite high and outweighs the difference in effectiveness.

[Rubicon99]

Also, with respect to #3 above, what kind of hit indicators are you referring to and how hard are they to add? Could a tutorial be done that could help?

Yes. A generalized tutorial can be done as the subject of another thread. I touched on this modification in a recent thread “Heng Long T34 build” where I added the option for them on to my T34. The process for adapting hit LEDs varies from tank to tank depending on if the tank has brake/head light options or not as the LEDs will be using the slot for brake/head lights on the 6.0 MFU or being spliced into the wiring for the brake/head lights. They then need to be routed into the turret and out one of the hatch’s so to be clearly visible. This is why I indicated it was an intermediate skill level.

I will work up a short tutorial on the process and how to use it as a hit indicator. Should be up in the next day or so.