Freewing T-45 Goshawk 90mm EDF Jet PNP

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8500 r.p.m. motors strong enough for Tamiya nylon/ metal tracks?

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  • Vaseline
    replied
    I have a couple planetary gear systems that I want to mess with and they don't have caps on them Was just wonder how to put them on other motors

    Leave a comment:


  • sclui56
    replied
    Rich, thanks. I did have to torch the last one I did and work the pinion off with plyers while keeping the shaft in place. After that, I just get the Tamiya bare 380's.

    Leave a comment:


  • keilau
    replied
    Originally posted by Vaseline View Post
    Rich do you put capacators on the motors? if so what size and how?
    Thanks in advanced
    Mabuchi Motor use SMD capacitors on the input of their 380 series of motors. No need for the Tamiya 380 or FxFans 390 to add external cap.

    Leave a comment:


  • Vaseline
    replied
    Rich do you put capacators on the motors? if so what size and how?
    Thanks in advanced

    Leave a comment:


  • RichJohnson
    replied
    I use the grasshopper motors in most of my tanks.
    There is a simple way to remove the gear and I will share my secret with you as pullers will not do the job.

    Put the motor in a vice gently.
    Then put a tight self clipping hemostat or other clip on the shaft under the gear.
    Get a sponge wet and have it at hand.
    Use a small torch to heat the gear up and then pop it off with a needlenose pliars. Then use sponge to cool shaft immediately.
    Done, Just whatch out for the flying hot gear, there is an air pocket inside the shaft cavity and they do go pop under pressure so they take off, just stay clear of it when it does.

    Leave a comment:


  • sclui56
    replied
    Originally posted by keilau View Post
    I saw this Tamiya Grasshopper 380 motor on e_bay at $1.80 brand new. It is the same Tamiya standard 380 motor I got from the Tamiya Shop, but has a 10T pinion so you will need a gear puller to get the pinion off.
    I would pass on that, the way Tamiya press-fit the pinion is so tight that takes quite a bit of work to break loose even with a decent puller. If you look at the top of the pinion, there is no opening to press on the shaft, so pulling by force alone will damage the assembly.

    Leave a comment:


  • keilau
    replied
    I saw this Tamiya Grasshopper 380 motor on e_bay at $1.80 brand new. It is the same Tamiya standard 380 motor I got from the Tamiya Shop, but has a 10T pinion so you will need a gear puller to get the pinion off.

    Leave a comment:


  • lazio55
    replied
    Originally posted by keilau View Post
    https://www.tamiyausa.com/shop/elect...t-brushed-380/
    It is used in several of Tamiya's late WW2 and Korean war 1:16 RC tank such as the M551 Sheridan.
    Click image for larger version

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    I measured the rpm at about 16,000 using a HL 1:39 ratio gearbox with 8.0 volts input. I use Lithium-Ion batteries for my tank which seems to stay around 8 volts the longest. I do not have my lab note on hand for the moment so the rpm number is not exact, but should not be too far off.
    Thanks.

    Leave a comment:


  • keilau
    replied
    Originally posted by lazio55 View Post

    Can you give me a link to this Tamiya 380? and how many r.p.m. has this motor? The grey HL stock 380 are fine and cause no heat issues at all on my tank. But I was a model builder for 35 years and Tamiya model kits were my favorite 1/35 military scale models. The moulding, the details ,the ease of building, the instructions, yes even the box art made are just excellent. And also their tools are superb quality.

    Thanks in advance, have a great week.
    https://www.tamiyausa.com/shop/elect...t-brushed-380/
    It is used in several of Tamiya's late WW2 and Korean war 1:16 RC tank such as the M551 Sheridan.
    Click image for larger version

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    I measured the rpm at about 16,000 using a HL 1:39 ratio gearbox with 8.0 volts input. I use Lithium-Ion batteries for my tank which seems to stay around 8 volts the longest. I do not have my lab note on hand for the moment so the rpm number is not exact, but should not be too far off.

    Leave a comment:


  • lazio55
    replied
    Originally posted by keilau View Post
    Is the Tamiya 380 so much cooler than the grey HL stock 380? How is it possible? Yes, the difference is real. It comes from much lower bearing friction of the armature shaft. The design and quality control both play a part.

    No, I did not do localized temperature measurement to verify that. It is an educated guess. I was a thermal technology engineer working on hypersonic airplane in my former life.
    Can you give me a link to this Tamiya 380? and how many r.p.m. has this motor? The grey HL stock 380 are fine and cause no heat issues at all on my tank. But I was a model builder for 35 years and Tamiya model kits were my favorite 1/35 military scale models. The moulding, the details ,the ease of building, the instructions, yes even the box art made are just excellent. And also their tools are superb quality.

    Thanks in advance, have a great week.

    Leave a comment:


  • lazio55
    replied
    Originally posted by keilau View Post

    Thank you for the insight about the heat problem in HL.

    The 390 motor is NOT a Mabuchi Motor design. It adds a cooling fan to the Mabuchi 380 which is a very good idea. But the implementation and manufacturing quality control is all over the map. Small motor like the 380/390 has fast moving parts using light machine oil for lubrication. Keeping them cool is ALWAYS a good idea and can reduce the need to oil. I survey the high end RC maker for 390 and found no conclusive result. I settled with MxFans 390 and is so far satisfied.

    I have a pir of Timaya Standard 380 on the HL Pershing because the Heng Xin gearbox does not allow the 390 to be fitted. The Tamiya 380 is made by Mabuchi, giving me the confidence on its quality. The Tamiya 380 runs warmer than the 390 for lack of a inside cooling fan. It does not go hot enough to kill a mainboard. The Pershing is one of the bigger WW2 tank so the tank inside is fairly open in the HL. I added a 40mm fan to help the circulation which is not necessary.
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    BTW, it is possible to use the 390 on the Pershing (see 2nd photo above) if you use an open frame gearbox such as the HL Ultimate2, Taigen or the HL stock gearbox. I prefer gearbox with ball bearing for all gears which excludes the HL stock gearbox.
    Thank you for this info. Can you give advice which Heng Xin gearbox will be well suited for a Heng Long Leopard 2a6?

    I discussed the heat problems elsewhere and I got 2 replies which made it clear for me what is the fundamental problem.

    Quote 1 : "25,000 rpm is too much for 3.1 gearboxes.
    The motors do not reach this speed, they are braked and thus become very warm".

    Quote 2 : "This answer is the root of the issue regardless of type battery or voltage. To explain further the high RPM motors draw more current (lower impedance) and thus heat up -exponentially-
    The braking is really a condition where the over draw of current limits the efficiency of the motor causing additional heating as well.
    The MFU try as it might will try to drive these higher current motors, but it too will eventually overheat and protection kicks in and shuts down".

    Unfortunately on all my V7.0 mainboards the protection does not kick in and they "explode". Is it because the V7.0 boards are relatively new? Is it because Heng Long did give us mainboards which allow for real progression with things like proportional driving, slow and fast speed and a very good sound quality (with the V7.0 in any case), but in producing them lowered their QC once again?

    I read from other uses all over the internet which have the same problems with blowed up boards. One guy had to buy 5 6.1 boards. I want to buy the V7.1 when the receiver/ transmitter becomes available because it has real useful new functions for modern tanks, but I am in no hurry whatsoever. I first will search for other users experiences.

    In the mean time my third V7.0 is doing really well with the stock 8500 grey/ black Heng Long 380 motors. And I expect the Taigen 13.000 motors will not give overheat, the difference in r.p.m.'s is modest. The V7.0 seems to have certain advantages, see the attachment.
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • keilau
    replied
    Originally posted by RichJohnson View Post
    Blackbird?
    Much more recent. https://www.airforce-technology.com/...51-wave-rider/
    Click image for larger version

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  • RichJohnson
    replied
    Blackbird?

    Leave a comment:


  • keilau
    replied
    Is the Tamiya 380 so much cooler than the grey HL stock 380? How is it possible? Yes, the difference is real. It comes from much lower bearing friction of the armature shaft. The design and quality control both play a part.

    No, I did not do localized temperature measurement to verify that. It is an educated guess. I was a thermal technology engineer working on hypersonic airplane in my former life.

    Leave a comment:


  • keilau
    replied
    Originally posted by lazio55 View Post
    My experiences with the Taigen 390 motors, 25000 rpm, and the HL 380 blue motors with 22000 rpm are bad. The 390's got very hot. Just like the blue ones which blew up my mainboard (V7.0). This is allready my third mainboard. They blow up way too much.

    I got advice that the new mainboards, except for the V6.0, are way more prone to heat damage when using fast motors then the older 5.3 version I used before. Something that HL did not tell us. That is in line with my own experiences. My Heng Long 380 motors at 8500 rpm are very safe, if only a bit slow for a modern tank. You can find that discussion here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZv9...XcN9_ub2b9FrQI
    I will replace them with a pair of new Taigen 380 motors, which I have, when I buy and install the Tamiya tracks. They run at 13.000 rpm, which was fast enough on my first Leopard 2a6. Thank you both for your input.
    Thank you for the insight about the heat problem in HL.

    The 390 motor is NOT a Mabuchi Motor design. It adds a cooling fan to the Mabuchi 380 which is a very good idea. But the implementation and manufacturing quality control is all over the map. Small motor like the 380/390 has fast moving parts using light machine oil for lubrication. Keeping them cool is ALWAYS a good idea and can reduce the need to oil. I survey the high end RC maker for 390 and found no conclusive result. I settled with MxFans 390 and is so far satisfied.

    I have a pir of Timaya Standard 380 on the HL Pershing because the Heng Xin gearbox does not allow the 390 to be fitted. The Tamiya 380 is made by Mabuchi, giving me the confidence on its quality. The Tamiya 380 runs warmer than the 390 for lack of a inside cooling fan. It does not go hot enough to kill a mainboard. The Pershing is one of the bigger WW2 tank so the tank inside is fairly open in the HL. I added a 40mm fan to help the circulation which is not necessary.
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    BTW, it is possible to use the 390 on the Pershing (see 2nd photo above) if you use an open frame gearbox such as the HL Ultimate2, Taigen or the HL stock gearbox. I prefer gearbox with ball bearing for all gears which excludes the HL stock gearbox.

    Leave a comment:


  • lazio55
    replied
    My experiences with the Taigen 390 motors, 25000 rpm, and the HL 380 blue motors with 22000 rpm are bad. The 390's got very hot. Just like the blue ones which blew up my mainboard (V7.0). This is allready my third mainboard. They blow up way too much.

    I got advice that the new mainboards, except for the V6.0, are way more prone to heat damage when using fast motors then the older 5.3 version I used before. Something that HL did not tell us. That is in line with my own experiences. My Heng Long 380 motors at 8500 rpm are very safe, if only a bit slow for a modern tank. You can find that discussion here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZv9...XcN9_ub2b9FrQI
    I will replace them with a pair of new Taigen 380 motors, which I have, when I buy and install the Tamiya tracks. They run at 13.000 rpm, which was fast enough on my first Leopard 2a6. Thank you both for your input.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rubicon99
    replied
    The Tamiya Leopard 2 tracks can be easily and safely run with the basic 380 motors BUT will have issues turning because of the much higher coefficient of friction caused by their rubber pads. To combat this higher friction either increase voltage to the 380 motors or add 390 motors. 390s being the better choice for larger tanks which has been recommended for a long time.

    Heating is NOT an issues with the new HL 6.0+ system or Tamiya systems and their motors because they have thermal cut offs built in and will shut down before they overheat. Older HL 5.2/5.3 systems would overheat both the motors and MFU to the point they would melt plastic or even light on fire. Had a few do exactly that. Cooling fans helped but only slightly.

    Motor RMPs are not really relevant with tanks as much as Torque is. Tanks need “low end” power = torque. The red HL 390 motors have much more torque then 380 motors so large the tanks handle better in turns and climbing while off road and on a wider variety of rough terrain types. Yes they are generally faster too, but a medium/small tank with 380 at 11v will be just as fast as a larger tank with 390s at 7.4v. Given that both are running the same 3:1 or 4:1 gearboxes and similar sized sprockets.

    High speeds tanks are easy set up. Low speeds tanks are easy to set up. A tank that can do both high speed and low speed really well are a little bit harder and take a mixed approach of gearboxes, motors, tracks and voltage to get the performance of both scale fast and scale slow speeds plus the ability to maneuver in all terrain types without struggling. Sounds like you are on the right course with your Leopard 2 to have it all. 👍👍


    Leave a comment:


  • keilau
    replied
    Originally posted by lazio55 View Post
    I am intending to buy Tamiya metal tracks for my Heng Long Leopard 2a6. I am wondering if the standard motors with 8500 r.p.m. installed on my copy are strong enough to handle the extra weight of the Tamiya metal tracks? They come with the new Heng Long steel gear boxes. Thank you!
    I have a PRO version German Leopard 2A6 with stock HL380 motor, metal gearbox and metal track from factory. The grey stock 380 motor runs at 15,000 rpm and can drive the Leopard with the very heavy HL metal tracks to decent scale speed. The grey stock 380 motor runs very hot to about 40 degree F above ambient, not a good situation. I tested the red HL390 and MxFans 390 which runs above 22,000 rpm giving the Leopard more realistic scale speed for a modern tank (typically 45-50 mph). The 390 runs much cooler because it has built-in cooling fan inside the motor case. I also tested the Tamiya standard 380 which is slightly cooler and faster than the HL grey 380.
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    The 2 pictures on the left show the stock HL drive/motor. The third picture shows the upgrade with MxFans 390 and Heng Xin gearbox. I use the Tamiya composite track which is light and strong.
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    The bottom line is that I highly recommend upgrading to 390 motor for the HL Leopard 2A6. The Tamiya track is nice to have and much more realistic than the HL stock metal track.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rubicon99
    replied
    Originally posted by lazio55 View Post
    I am intending to buy Tamiya metal tracks for my Heng Long Leopard 2a6. I am wondering if the standard motors with 8500 r.p.m. installed on my copy are strong enough to handle the extra weight of the Tamiya metal tracks? They come with the new Heng Long steel gear boxes. Thank you!
    Tamiya Leopard 2 tracks are SUPER light yet very strong. They are made out of mostly nylon links with rubber pads. Only the track pins and ends are metal.

    Definitely one of the best RC tank tracks made for modern tanks.

    Leave a comment:


  • lazio55
    replied
    Thank you very much!

    Leave a comment:

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