Centurion Mk. 5 by Tongde

[sclui56]

No wonder on the Sand Gray 73, I did get some hemp and shot a small test, it was a bit on the green side. Now I can switch over to the 73 when I have a chance to build out the Tamy. I wish someone is bringing in the TD and Haya stuff here, that would make things a lot more palatable. Looking good Bob. Have fun in SD.

[Rubicon99]

Some side by side photos of the TD Centurion(lighter tan) and Tamiya Centurion. Overall there are areas of modeling where the Tamiya is better, but also areas where the TD is. Definitely looks worth the $500 price tag and SoCalbob has not even weathered it yet.

[SoCalBobS]

Some experiences with my lighter tan Centurion (and others), at the September 17 San Diego battle: I had driven it in moderate environments before, but our battlefield can be a tough proving ground. I did have one de-tracking. Others did too, so it's an expected event. Doing a spin in place in clay and dirt can make that happen. So as the Doctor says, "don't do that!" Otherwise it ran quite well. We did have some difficulty with the IR function. My emitter was fine. It's mounted in place of the machine gun in the mantlet. The receiver however wasn't very reliable. I use a Lego DEI which is very capable and dependable, so I'm thinking it might be the Tongde main board. I may have to do some research.

I had another new issue regarding my Heng Long and Tongde transmitters. Although all worked fine at home, in an environment with up to 10 tanks running at once some of my transmitters wouldn't start my tanks every time. I checked them at home afterwards and they worked! Turns out some of my batteries were so weak the tank didn't receive the signal. To my embarassment, some of them were originals from when I got the tanks. Guess I gotta replace them, huh...

[SoCalBobS]

Finale: Pretty much done, ready to accumulate real world dirt on our battlefields.




A couple reference shots from before my treatment.

[SoCalBobS]

So some bad news, good news about the Centurion. Recently the elevation function began to malfunction. I could hear the motor running, but the gun only up and down a little bit and I could hear slipping inside. That's the bad. The good news is that it is fixable.

TD has put a larger wheel than HL on the motor module. This wheel rotates pushing the gun breech up and down. The larger wheel yields a greater range of elevation. However, this also causes mare torque stress on the wheel hub, and it eventually caused a crack. I glued, reinforced and lock washer it and it works ok. It is a failure point that I'm sure others will experience.

In working on this, I've observed that the TD motor mechanism is dimensionally the same as HL's. HL just has a smaller cam wheel; stronger but with less range of motion. It's a fallback solution of the TD wheel completly breaks.

Here's the wheel I'm talking about.

[SoCalBobS]

Another tidbit. I took my Centurion to our San Diego battlefield for a shakedown trial and a video opportunity. (see my Instagram thread @ SoCalBobS) I encountered a tracking issue. It had been driven on concrete, gravel and a dirt obstacle course without a problem. On our field, when making tight turns, it detracked off the sprocket teeth a few times. Why there and not before? I looked closely at the alignment between the sprocket gear and the closest road wheel. Yup, it wasn't perfect! I applied a proven remedy by placing a washer inside the sprocket wheel which moved it from the body out by the thickness of the washer. Much better. (I've adjusted alignment this way on at least three other tanks.) I'll be testing further.

"You'll never know the edge of the envelope until you go past it."

[Tang - RC.Senshado]

That looks fantastic Bob!

[Tang - RC.Senshado]

Another tidbit. I took my Centurion to our San Diego battlefield for a shakedown trial and a video opportunity. (see my Instagram thread @ SoCalBobS) I encountered a tracking issue. It had been driven on concrete, gravel and a dirt obstacle course without a problem. On our field, when making tight turns, it detracked off the sprocket teeth a few times. Why there and not before? I looked closely at the alignment between the sprocket gear and the closest road wheel. Yup, it wasn't perfect! I applied a proven remedy by placing a washer inside the sprocket wheel which moved it from the body out by the thickness of the washer. Much better. (I've adjusted alignment this way on at least three other tanks.) I'll be testing further.

"You'll never know the edge of the envelope until you go past it."

I don't run any types of tanks with skirts yet like a Pershing or the Centurion like you have there Bob, but when a tank like that de-tracks, does it cause a lot of carnage when hitting the skirts/body?

[SoCalBobS]

I guess it could cause damage, but it never has for me. Usually "detracking" just means the track links aren't fitting onto the sprocket teeth. That's a minor displacement and doesn't usually hit the skirt. I did have an Abrams once that the tracks began rubbing the skirt inside and I eventually saw some plastic shavings. The other major displacement is when a pebble or dirt clogs the idler and throws the track completely off. Panzer 3's and 4's have this happen a lot.

The worst consequence of having to reseat track on a tank with skirts is having to remove the top hull. I cut the skirts off my Pershing because of this. It makes it look meaner too!

[Tang - RC.Senshado]

Woah that looks really cool like that!

[keilau]

Actually, your Pershing without the skirts looks like post Korean War Pershing.

[SoCalBobS]

Actually, your Pershing without the skirts looks like post Korean War Pershing.

The markings are of a Korean War USMC Pershing. It's posed cannon up as they were used as artillery at times then.

Centurions were used by ANZAC in Vietnam. They removed the skirts, I'm sure because of the sloggy ground they encountered there.

[keilau]

So, suspension. Metal wheels with bearings on the road wheels but not on the return rollers. The Horstmann style suspension is all metal. Visible sprung suspension links are on the front and back bogies, but all wheels are sprung. The return rollers are plastic and not bearing'd.

Anyone can comment on the pros and cons of this "Horstmann style suspension" vs the torsion bar suspension on the TD M60?

[Rubicon99]

Anyone can comment on the pros and cons of this "Horstmann style suspension" vs the torsion bar suspension on the TD M60?

Both in the metal optioned versions are good. The suspensions are mechanically different and thus handle terrain differently. The Centurion is more like a HVSS Sherman suspension and in such is a bit less conforming to rough terrain variations vs the softer more flexible torsion bars of the M60 that are noticeably more conforming to rough terrain variations. But the longer hull and thus longer suspension orientation and track of the Centurion offsets it's lack suspension flex and thus makes cross country driving at slow to medium speed performance about equal to the M60. At higher speed (not scale of course) the Centurion being a longer tank is superior to the M60 and not as bouncy. It actually "smooths out" the faster it is driven. Much like a Trophy race tuck vs a rock crawler Jeep. The short Jeep with it superior wheel articulation is better in slow going over big rocks, the longer Trophy truck with its more moderate wheel articulation is better at higher speeds over moderate terrain.

The Horstmann suspension other weakness like the Sherman's HVSS( Sherman being very top heavy and rolling over easily) is off camber slopes and tends to loose tracks easier when driving on the slope. Fortunately the Centurion is wider and longer then the Sherman so it is more stable then the HVSS Sherman, but the transfer of weight to the down slope side causes the tracks to frequently ride off the road wheels and sprockets. On off camber slopes the more flexible and forgiving torsion bars of the M60 do not have this issue come up as frequently.

So if you don't often drive in off camber conditions or at high non scale speeds then you have nothing to worry about and the two tanks are pretty even performers.

[keilau]

Both in the metal optioned versions are good. The suspensions are mechanically different and thus handle terrain differently. The Centurion is more like a HVSS Sherman suspension and in such is a bit less conforming to rough terrain variations vs the softer more flexible torsion bars of the M60 that are noticeably more conforming to rough terrain variations. But the longer hull and thus longer suspension orientation and track of the Centurion offsets it's lack suspension flex and thus makes cross country driving at slow to medium speed performance about equal to the M60. At higher speed (not scale of course) the Centurion being a longer tank is superior to the M60 and not as bouncy. It actually "smooths out" the faster it is driven. Much like a Trophy race tuck vs a rock crawler Jeep. The short Jeep with it superior wheel articulation is better in slow going over big rocks, the longer Trophy truck with its more moderate wheel articulation is better at higher speeds over moderate terrain.

The Horstmann suspension other weakness like the Sherman's HVSS( Sherman being very top heavy and rolling over easily) is off camber slopes and tends to loose tracks easier when driving on the slope. Fortunately the Centurion is wider and longer then the Sherman so it is more stable then the HVSS Sherman, but the transfer of weight to the down slope side causes the tracks to frequently ride off the road wheels and sprockets. On off camber slopes the more flexible and forgiving torsion bars of the M60 do not have this issue come up as frequently.

So if you don't often drive in off camber conditions or at high non scale speeds then you have nothing to worry about and the two tanks are pretty even performers.

Currently, I do not have a single British tank in my lineup. You helped me make up my mind to get the Centurion MK5.

Thank you for helping me ball bearing the M60 road wheels. Sometimes, I feel funny to spend $60 on bearings for a $40 suspension arm set. But the result is great. You are always a great advisor and an inspiration.

[keilau]

The Coolbank Model Store have the TD Centurion Mk5 metal version for $271 including 3 weeks shipping to my US address. The plastic version is $160 shipped.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804927140380.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.608c38dac DfIxW&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa
The Tongde tank has no higher quality metal upgrade options. Based on my TD M60A1 experience, buying the metal version is the better approach.

[keilau]

The Coolbank Model Store have the TD Centurion Mk5 metal version for $271 including 3 weeks shipping to my US address. The plastic version is $160 shipped.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804927140380.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.608c38dac DfIxW&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa
The Tongde tank has no higher quality metal upgrade options. Based on my TD M60A1 experience, buying the metal version is the better approach.

If my post below sounds like another "back handed" themed comments toward TD products, I apologize in advance.

The Centurion is my favorite tank and RC subject. I paused before I hit the buy buttom. Tongde factory is not going away anytime soon. They will continue to make tanks for Heng Long. Their Tongde product line had been on the market for 2 years, but had failed to sign up any distributor in the major market, US, EU and UK. Is the TD RC tank product line here to stay? How do they justify the business case? Their decision to make the mechanical parts proprietary instead of Heng Long compatible is probably a major factor in the lack of popularity. I would like to hear a comment from them directly.

[RichJohnson]

You won’t hear from TD directly.
The TD centurian is a good choice as long as it’s all metal but another option is Haya. They have a slightly higher detailed model with supposedly more options and upgrades. Thick out haya’s website and see it. Guys in RC Universe love it though it’s a higher cost rc tank. I don’t know what shipping will cost you but if you’re on the fence about TD Haya is an option? They offered the Cheifton a few years ago and it was quite popular as a mid to high grade priced tank.

[RichJohnson]

They have a couple centurion versions and the marksman chief Tom as well though I prefer my IiDF Sherman Marksman tank or the m60 one lol.

https://www.hayaltd.co.uk

[keilau]

They have a couple centurion versions and the marksman chief Tom as well though I prefer my IiDF Sherman Marksman tank or the m60 one lol.

https://www.hayaltd.co.uk

The description of the Centurion sounds good. Do you know who makes these tanks? At the Haya price, I can buy a Torro all metal RTR tank. Are they (Haya and Torro) similar in quality?

Anyway, my budget is under $300. My consideration is either a TD Centurion metal version or one of the HL Merkava, upgrade to CNC gearbox myself.